Incarnate questions from a returning player
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2011-07-05 24:08 in Player Questions
I recommend: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Incarnate_System
To summarise, Shards are used for Alpha slot powers, Threads can be used for any of the 5 currently available slot types. Astral & Emp merits can be used for make threads, convert into incarnate components and traded for costume pieces, auras, emotes & recipes - so it's up to you what you do with them 
As for powers, Cardiac is good if you have end problems, Spiritual is the general go-to if you're unsure (more recharge is always good). IMHO Diamaganetic is the better of the who, but it depends on your toon. The -ToHit for Diamagnetic is good to stack with existing +DEF or -ToHit (such as that from DM).
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Components made with Incarnate Shards are the same as the ones you can get for completing some level 50 TFs and are only usable to make Alpha Slot Abilities. Components made with Incarnate Threads are the same as the ones yyou get from completing the Trials and can be used for any of the currently available slots (including the Alpha Slot).|
Originally Posted by evertheskeptic
What's the difference between Incarnate shards and threads? Do I make different things with them?
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| Is it worth it to convert the Astral and Empyrean merits to threads (I think that's correct) which I can then convert to the components I need for Incarnate abilities? Or are they better off saved for something else, and I just run the trials to get the components? |
Personally I trade most of my Astrals for Threads and save my Emps for purchasing Rare Incarnate Components. However, if you run the trials a lot and want the costume pieces that you can buy with Astrals/Emps you might be better off spending them on those and using component drops for building abilities.
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| What about converting components, like downgrading uncommons, is that a wise thing to do? |
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| Also, I'm thinking of the Alpha: Cardiac and Judgement: Void abilities. For Interface, I'm considering either Diamagnetic or Paralytic. Are those choices good? This is for my Dark/Dark scrapper btw |
Interface is a little trickier, of the two you mentioned I'd probably go with Diamagnetic (take the Core path) however there is a solid argument for taking Reactive, especially if you solo a lot.
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Hi and welcome back!!|
Originally Posted by evertheskeptic
I'm a returning player trying to figure out the Incarnate stuff. I have a basic understanding of the systems. I ran Ramiel's arc so I have the Alpha slot unlocked, and I started running some BAF and Lam trials so I have some progress towards Judgement and Interface and have some of the rewards from those.
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| But I'm having a little trouble figuring out how the different merits and components and shards and threads and whatnot all fit together |
Hehe, I'm no expert, but let's see if I can help a little (and I'm sure there'll be a bunch of helpful replies soon (even before I finish typing this, no doubt).
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| What's the difference between Incarnate shards and threads? Do I make different things with them? |
Shards were introduced first, when we just had the Alpha Slot and nothing else. And they were solely used for creating and slotting things for Alpha.
I've not converted any to Threads or anything and only ever used them to slot my Alpha abilities.
Threads only drop from enemies in the Incarnate Trials (and as reward options for completing certain tasks/TFs).
And Threads are needed to craft the many different things needed for the other Incarnate Slots.
I am a little unfamiliar with the bleed over, as I mostly finished doing Alpha stuff before the Trials came around (although, I'm just about to start a new guy through the Alpha stages... And I think I am just going to follow the same path I did before... Run some TFs with teams and collect a bunch of shards along the way. A handful of TFs and Weekly Strike Targets and I had my Tier 3 Alpha Slot pretty quickly. Tier 4 not that far afterward.
So, I've followed a Shards for Alpha & Threads for the rest, but it is not really limited to just that way (just makes it a bit easier for me as I still get lost in the sea of various components for the higher incarnate slots).
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| Is it worth it to convert the Astral and Empyrean merits to threads (I think that's correct) which I can then convert to the components I need for Incarnate abilities? Or are they better off saved for something else, and I just run the trials to get the components? |
You can now buy some costume pieces, auras, emotes, Invention Enhancements with Empyreans and Astrals.
I've not used any Emps nor Astrals on Threads and have just tried to get what I need through completing the trials and with the threads that I've earned.
I'm not plowing through it and just taking it as it comes and I seem to be doing fine (although, I don't really like repeating these things over and over... so, again, I'm taking it slowly).
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| What about converting components, like downgrading uncommons, is that a wise thing to do? |
So, if you find yourself struggling to get specific components to complete a slot you want, I'd go for however you can make that happening, without sacrificing something you need for something else/a later tier, etc.
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| Also, I'm thinking of the Alpha: Cardiac and Judgement: Void abilities. For Interface, I'm considering either Diamagnetic or Paralytic. Are those choices good? This is for my Dark/Dark scrapper btw |
Plus, you can earn any and all of the different variations and slot and unslot them.
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| And is this the best forum for Incarnate discussion? I didn't see a specific Incarnate category so I wasn't sure |
There is no Incarnate Forum.
Some may stick with the Going Rogue section, since only Going Rogue users can use Incarnate System, but that's not a necessary restriction for the forums!
Anyway... Just my quick, personal thoughts on your questions... Best of luck!
@Zethustra
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I tend to only convert Astrals and Emps to threads when I have a slot unlocked and want a power (or upgraded power) made.
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Ok I too have basically came back ran the mission to unlock the Alpha slot and I read the wiki link. Its just seems confusing am I to run all those listed raids/tfs to get shards? I need some help
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For a character with the Alpha slot unlocked, shards should drop from even-level mobs while you're playing any content - TFs, story arcs, even just random hunting. They'll even drop while you're exemped below 50, as long as the mobs are even-level to you or above.|
Originally Posted by Frostburnt
Ok I too have basically came back ran the mission to unlock the Alpha slot and I read the wiki link. Its just seems confusing am I to run all those listed raids/tfs to get shards? I need some help
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You'll often see TFs such as the ITF or Lady Grey advertised as "shard runs"; that means that rather than trying to complete the TF as quickly as possible, the team will be trying to defeat as many mobs as possible to increase the chances of shard drops. It's not unusual to get anywhere from 5-12 shards during a typical TF, so people often focus on those as opposed to other content. A friend of mine got 14 shards on a single LGTF shard run.
Funny thing about common vs. uncommon Trial salvage: "uncommon" salvage is actually more common than "common", because there's something that moves particular trials a notch up on the rolls table (I can't remember whether it's number of players or something else) and makes it more likely that you'll roll uncommon than common.
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It is, consensus says, achievement of sub-objectives during the trial (such as getting all the crates/containment units on Lambda or killing Siege/Nightstar at their spawns on BAF), basically stuff you get Astral Merits for. The more you complete, the more likely the team is to get better rewards at the end and given that the majority of teams complete the majority of sub-objectives (for the merits and/or badges usually) so it skews the results towards Uncommon rather than Common.
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Originally Posted by Robotech_Master
Funny thing about common vs. uncommon Trial salvage: "uncommon" salvage is actually more common than "common", because there's something that moves particular trials a notch up on the rolls table (I can't remember whether it's number of players or something else) and makes it more likely that you'll roll uncommon than common.
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frostburnt-- those tfs will give you one of the pieces you need, but you dont need to run that tf to get that piece, you can convert shards also to get pieces, 4 shards for a common piece, 8 shards plua a common item for uncommon and so on and so forth. plus i think you get a rare the first time you do each of those tfs, I know I have gotten 3 notices of the well from itf, tin mage, lgtf, not for certain how those are isssued, but i got them. I would recommend running them if the opportunity arises but other than that just run a quick tf for shards to build your alpha, I run itf for that because it can be completed in under adn hour an you get a decent amount of shards.
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Notices of the Well are handed out for a) having the Alpha slot unlocked and b) running the Weekly Strike Target.|
Originally Posted by darkangel32
frostburnt-- those tfs will give you one of the pieces you need, but you dont need to run that tf to get that piece, you can convert shards also to get pieces, 4 shards for a common piece, 8 shards plua a common item for uncommon and so on and so forth. plus i think you get a rare the first time you do each of those tfs, I know I have gotten 3 notices of the well from itf, tin mage, lgtf, not for certain how those are isssued, but i got them. I would recommend running them if the opportunity arises but other than that just run a quick tf for shards to build your alpha, I run itf for that because it can be completed in under adn hour an you get a decent amount of shards.
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You can only get one per strike target week per character (Week starts Tuesday, and in the case of say Positron, which has two TFs, you can run both but will only get 1 notice). Running it additional times gives progress towards badges.
One notice is needed to craft a Rare, and two rares and a Favor are needed to craft a Very Rare alpha slot - and a Favor is 32 shards + 2 Notices.
Once you're done with the Alpha slot, you can break down Notices for threads.
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Ok so once i at least get something slotted into the first slot I can do the Apex/ Tin Mage TFs right w/o being penalized? And where do I find out the weekly strike target?
They post the weekly strike target in Announcements, here, and I think in the Global MotD. Easiest way to check, though, is www.paragonwiki.com front page upper-right.
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You'll need 12 shards (or 3 components) to craft a tier 1 Alpha enhancement. Each Alpha has different requirements; doing one of the level 50 TF's will drop one component so depending on which Alpha you want to craft you can probably run say the ITF which drops an Ancient Nictus Fragment component and it's likely you'll also get 8 shards that you can convert into the other two components... the ITF is probably the best "shard dropping" TF and usually drops 6-8 shards on a normal run, the most I've had drop was 14 in that TF.|
Originally Posted by Frostburnt
Ok so once i at least get something slotted into the first slot I can do the Apex/ Tin Mage TFs right w/o being penalized? And where do I find out the weekly strike target?
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I don't recall offhand what components the various Alphas need, but pick a TF that drops one of the ones you need and plan on using shards to make the other two. By the way, Grai Matter is a component that's crafted in the RWZ base from 150? Vanguard Merits and it's in several Alpha slot recipes. It's also craftable from 4 shards, but if you have V-Merits that's a better choice.
The WTF (Weekly Task Force) is given in the Announcements section in this thread, for this week (Aug 16-22) it's the Lady Grey Task Force in the RWZ. Next week it's Sister Psyche blueside and Silver Mantis redside.
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I'm doing lots of trials, which nets me a bit of threads, a bunch of merits, lots of commons, a few uncommons, and very few -but still some- rare incarnate components. As I'm all in on trials, I don't get any shards at all.
Astral Merits
Common. You get a few for every trial. There's costume pieces to unlock with these, but they are very useful for making more threads when you need them.
Empyrean Merits
Rare. I seem to get maybe one per 3-5 trials. As these seem pretty valuable, I'm hanging on to them. Just 8 merits can give you a rare incarnate component, and that's a good indication of their value.
Common Components
These drop a lot. They are also cheap to make from threads. The fact that you need a lot of them means you will probably need to make some of these from threads to get what you need: not a bad way to use a few astral merits.
Uncommon Components
These are more costly to make yourself. Usually though, you don't need many, and you will get enough of these dropping to meet your requirements anyway.
Rare Components
These are rare enough to make breakdown and downgrade a horrible choice. My suggestion is you leave your rares alone. Sidegrade them, fine, but never ever downgrade or breakdown. To create one rare, you need 4 uncommons + 100 threads I think, which is very costly. Don't waste the rares; you WILL need them eventually.
Personally, I keep a list of common, uncommon, and rare components that I currently need, so I can make sure to pick the right reward at the end of a trial. It saves me the sidegrade cost.
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These are actually time-limited. You can get 1 per day (20 hours, technically) per successful trial (with I21, I believe Keyes and the Underground will grant 2); if you run repeats of the same trials within that 20-hour window you will not receive additional E-merits for the repeated trials.|
Originally Posted by MacOberon
Empyrean Merits
Rare. I seem to get maybe one per 3-5 trials. As these seem pretty valuable, I'm hanging on to them. Just 8 merits can give you a rare incarnate component, and that's a good indication of their value. |
So right now on live, you can get 3 per day by running BAF, Lambda and Keyes once each.
When I21 launches you can get 6 per day: 1 each from BAF and Lambda and 2 each from Keyes and Underground.
It's up to you how to spend your merits, but here's my advice.
I think it's worth spending all your merits initially on getting two T3s for the level shift. Convert merits to threads, threads to salvage, and you'll get there pretty quickly.
Once you've got a level shift or two, the trials are IMO more fun and you will be more effective in them. That makes it easier to earn more Merits if you want to spend them on the fun cosmetic stuff later.
As for where to discuss Incarnate powers, the Archetypes & Powers general discussion is probably best.
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Per the bolded - Does the week start Tuesday, and you must wait 7 days between your time or earning, or can you only earn one within the 7-day period?|
Originally Posted by Rajani Isa
Notices of the Well are handed out for a) having the Alpha slot unlocked and b) running the Weekly Strike Target.
You can only get one per strike target week per character (Week starts Tuesday, and in the case of say Positron, which has two TFs, you can run both but will only get 1 notice). Running it additional times gives progress towards badges. One notice is needed to craft a Rare, and two rares and a Favor are needed to craft a Very Rare alpha slot - and a Favor is 32 shards + 2 Notices. Once you're done with the Alpha slot, you can break down Notices for threads. |
To use a current example, say I did the LGTF yesterday (Monday). Today (Tuesday), the WST changes to Sister Psyche. Do I have to wait until Monday to do it on that character (and is it all the way down to the hour?), or can I do it right away with that character?
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Originally Posted by SweeneyTodd
It's up to you how to spend your merits, but here's my advice.
I think it's worth spending all your merits initially on getting two T3s for the level shift. Convert merits to threads, threads to salvage, and you'll get there pretty quickly. Once you've got a level shift or two, the trials are IMO more fun and you will be more effective in them. That makes it easier to earn more Merits if you want to spend them on the fun cosmetic stuff later. As for where to discuss Incarnate powers, the Archetypes & Powers general discussion is probably best. |
Or did you mean to immediately unlock a T3 on, say, Judgement right away?
Finally, when equipping my Alpha, I just took the one that I could get the level shift quicker on, so a T3 (the one on the left, whatever that is, in Spiritual I think). Is it worthwhile to get the T4 right away? Or am I fine with just the T3?
Thanks... Just getting the hang of all of this.
Thanks for eight fun years, Paragon.
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To answer all questions (sorry about my bad forum editing skills, have to put all at end)|
Originally Posted by ChrisMoses
Per the bolded - Does the week start Tuesday, and you must wait 7 days between your time or earning, or can you only earn one within the 7-day period?
To use a current example, say I did the LGTF yesterday (Monday). Today (Tuesday), the WST changes to Sister Psyche. Do I have to wait until Monday to do it on that character (and is it all the way down to the hour?), or can I do it right away with that character? Per the bolded - Are you saying you can get two T3 Alphas? Can't you only equip one? Does unlocking/buying the other Alpha provide a level shift even if it isn't equipped? Or did you mean to immediately unlock a T3 on, say, Judgement right away? Finally, when equipping my Alpha, I just took the one that I could get the level shift quicker on, so a T3 (the one on the left, whatever that is, in Spiritual I think). Is it worthwhile to get the T4 right away? Or am I fine with just the T3? Thanks... Just getting the hang of all of this. |
1. You get the Notice once per WST change. So, you can do one on Monday, get your Notice, then do the next week's on Tuesday and still get your Notice on that toon.
2. I think he was saying get two Tier 3s, one on Alpha and one on Lore or Destiny (Judgement and Interface don't provide level shifts), to get +2 level. You could get 2 different Alphas and switch as the situation requires, but I doubt many do that and you can only slot 1 at a time.
3. I would go for filling all 5 Incarnate Abilities with tier 3 before trying for any tier 4. Once those are done, I'd go back for Alpha tier 4. The nice thing about Alpha is that you get shards doing regular content, so just playing you can work towards it without putting specific effort in.
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You can do it right away with that character and get a Notice. But you won't be able to do it again with that character for a Notice and bonus merits until the following Tuesday. (Though you can still do it again with that character for badge credit; there are badges for re-doing the weekly strike target once or multiple times, all the way up to 50 times.) It's once during the period, it doesn't matter when during the period it is.|
Originally Posted by ChrisMoses
Per the bolded - Does the week start Tuesday, and you must wait 7 days between your time or earning, or can you only earn one within the 7-day period?
To use a current example, say I did the LGTF yesterday (Monday). Today (Tuesday), the WST changes to Sister Psyche. Do I have to wait until Monday to do it on that character (and is it all the way down to the hour?), or can I do it right away with that character? |
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| Per the bolded - Are you saying you can get two T3 Alphas? Can't you only equip one? Does unlocking/buying the other Alpha provide a level shift even if it isn't equipped? |
The recipes for the T4 of any Incarnate power require you to have crafted two T3s of the same type. For example, a T4 Spiritual Alpha requires two different T3 Spiritual Alphas plus salvage to craft. You don't have to slot or do anything with the second one, but you have to have it in your inventory in order to craft a T4. So, once you've built one T3, if you want a T4 then you start all over with another T1 and build it all the way up to a T3 again. It largely doesn't matter which T3 you build for your second one, since you're never going to be slotting it. Just build what's easiest with the salvage you hqve.
(For that matter, you could also choose to build an Alpha of an entirely different type and trade them out in different situations. I have a T4 Spiritual on my Fire/Fire Tanker, but I've also got a T3 Cardiac in her inventory that I can use if I ever want to sacrifice that additional recharge rate in order to get more damage resistance.)
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| Finally, when equipping my Alpha, I just took the one that I could get the level shift quicker on, so a T3 (the one on the left, whatever that is, in Spiritual I think). Is it worthwhile to get the T4 right away? Or am I fine with just the T3? |
Thanks for the answers, guys. Robotech Master, I had a few followups:
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Will two T3s of any type unlock a T4? I wouldn't think so, but that kind of seems to be what you're saying.| (For that matter, you could also choose to build an Alpha of an entirely different type and trade them out in different situations. I have a T4 Spiritual on my Fire/Fire Tanker, but I've also got a T3 Cardiac in her inventory that I can use if I ever want to sacrifice that additional recharge rate in order to get more damage resistance.) |
The only character I have with the Alpha unlocked is my Ice/Elec Blaster, who has a Spiritual T3. I haven't done anything else with him (besides gain iXP), but I'm working on it. When revisiting the Alpha, I'm reading that the one I chose, Spiritual, seems to be forgotten when applied to the other Incarnate powers (the +Rech of Spiritual won't affect the Lore pets, or Judgement powers, as well as some non-Incarnate powers for that matter).
This has me thinking that maybe I need to pick a different one, such as Musculature for the +Dmg. I didn't initially take the +DMG one because I was thinking, "Well, with ED it won't be much to my benefit, and with Build Up and Aim active, I believe I'm at the damage cap already, let alone any Invention set +Dmg bonuses I may have..."
But then I read that some of the Alpha bonuses ignore ED.
So now I'm thinking I need to start all the way over for Musculature, predominately because Spiritual's buff is ignored by many powers in the game, while the other Alpha affects don't have that Penalty.
Could you give me your opinion on this situation? Or maybe verify that I'm at least understanding this situation in the first place?
Thanks for eight fun years, Paragon.
T4 requires two T3 of the same "tree". So two cardiac T3 for a cardiac T4. Two spiritual T3 for a spiritual T4. Two Rularuu Lore T3 for a Rularuu Lore T4. etc etc etc.
There aren't many powers in the game that ignore Spiritual. Only like ten or fifteen total, and most characters can only access one to three of these (outside of Incarnates).
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Originally Posted by Dispari
I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.
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No. Only two T3s of the same type, but different sub-types. Two different Spiritual T3s unlock a Spiritual T4. I keep a Cardiac T3 around just in case I should ever be in a situation where I'm willing to swap it in place of my Spiritual to get the different bonuses it offers instead. (Well, actually, once I built it, I have to keep it around; I can't get rid of it. But that's why I built it. Someday I might build it up to a T4, too.)|
Originally Posted by ChrisMoses
Thanks for the answers, guys. Robotech Master, I had a few followups:
Will two T3s of any type unlock a T4? I wouldn't think so, but that kind of seems to be what you're saying. |
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| The only character I have with the Alpha unlocked is my Ice/Elec Blaster, who has a Spiritual T3. I haven't done anything else with him (besides gain iXP), but I'm working on it. When revisiting the Alpha, I'm reading that the one I chose, Spiritual, seems to be forgotten when applied to the other Incarnate powers (the +Rech of Spiritual won't affect the Lore pets, or Judgement powers, as well as some non-Incarnate powers for that matter). |
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This has me thinking that maybe I need to pick a different one, such as Musculature for the +Dmg. I didn't initially take the +DMG one because I was thinking, "Well, with ED it won't be much to my benefit, and with Build Up and Aim active, I believe I'm at the damage cap already, let alone any Invention set +Dmg bonuses I may have..." But then I read that some of the Alpha bonuses ignore ED. |
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| So now I'm thinking I need to start all the way over for Musculature, predominately because Spiritual's buff is ignored by many powers in the game, while the other Alpha affects don't have that Penalty. |
I'm a returning player trying to figure out the Incarnate stuff. I have a basic understanding of the systems. I ran Ramiel's arc so I have the Alpha slot unlocked, and I started running some BAF and Lam trials so I have some progress towards Judgement and Interface and have some of the rewards from those. But I'm having a little trouble figuring out how the different merits and components and shards and threads and whatnot all fit together
What's the difference between Incarnate shards and threads? Do I make different things with them?
Is it worth it to convert the Astral and Empyrean merits to threads (I think that's correct) which I can then convert to the components I need for Incarnate abilities? Or are they better off saved for something else, and I just run the trials to get the components? What about converting components, like downgrading uncommons, is that a wise thing to do?
Also, I'm thinking of the Alpha: Cardiac and Judgement: Void abilities. For Interface, I'm considering either Diamagnetic or Paralytic. Are those choices good? This is for my Dark/Dark scrapper btw
And is this the best forum for Incarnate discussion? I didn't see a specific Incarnate category so I wasn't sure