Issue 20: Incarnates Ascend - Patch notes for build 2050.201106210214.1
By
Angelxman81,
Posted on: 2011-06-28 09:10 in News, Events and Announcement Discussion
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Originally Posted by TehHippeh
I never understood the rage of people who get their costume covered up buy a shield effect. If you want to admire the costume, spend 10 minutes alone and unteamed before you log out and spin that camera around all you like :P
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I would agree except there's more to it than that for some people. No, the problem isn't purely "I dont' want to be covered in ice" or some matter of cosmetic vanity. There are documented medical issues that some players have with some buffs that they now can't avoid. This was part of the problem brought up after the initial announcement. |
Originally Posted by TehHippeh
The problem existed every time someone buffed you. It's just easier for people to do that to you now. The only way this change is a problem is if you are teamed and you tell a buffer to not use shields. It's too hard for them to skip you reasonably now.
But for the small percentage (relatively) of people who hate shields compared to the multitude of others who want them, and the group of people who will now play shield-based buffers because it is not as tedious? This absolutely should have been implemented now. It has been known a long time that there are pretty challenging technical issues to overcome with regard to canceling a buff granted on you. Should they never implement any QoL like this unless they can handle every corner case? Unless they cause havoc for your PC, I never understood the rage of people who get their costume covered up buy a shield effect. If you want to admire the costume, spend 10 minutes alone and unteamed before you log out and spin that camera around all you like :P |
So now, instead of simply asking to not be buffed, they have to not be anywhere near anyone who might be buffed to avoid whatever health issues the buffs bring out for them. In other words, logging on now becomes a health hazard.
This is not an improvement for those players, and it is something that the dev team can't claim didn't know could be an issue. It was brought up well before it went Live.
They announced the change without considering all the implications. Then they chose to push it live anyway once it was pointed out. I find it to be rather unfathomable that it's considered acceptable for them to introduce a "feature" that actively hurts a portion of the player base after those players had been able to avoid it for for the most part for seven years.
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Daemonchilde: ((fluffy thinks he's a tank)) Demon . Hunter: (( I think mine is >.> Daemonchilde: ((Yours is no longer fluffy, it is Obliteron, destroyer of worlds)) |
What I was asking for was either a way that I could turn off the buffs. (best solution cause its up to me to decide if I want it or not.) Or the other option is to have it effect teams/leagues only. At least this way bystandards aren't hit. (not a better solution since some my want the buff). Perhaps a third solution is turning off the animation/visual effects of the buffs. So if you do ice me I dont see it or it doesn't take me out of my emote that I'm in.
Just wait til the game is F2P and you have dozens of new players on free accounts just buffing to grieve. It was already happing when they could do it one toons at a time, but hey now lets hit everyone in a CC. Or look there's a group of people chatting and stuff lets go over a disrupt them. weeeeeeeeeeee. what fun.
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The range of the AoE is pretty small. You can easily avoid it once you establish how big it actually is.|
Originally Posted by The_Demon_Hunter
I would agree except there's more to it than that for some people. No, the problem isn't purely "I dont' want to be covered in ice" or some matter of cosmetic vanity. There are documented medical issues that some players have with some buffs that they now can't avoid. This was part of the problem brought up after the initial announcement.
So now, instead of simply asking to not be buffed, they have to not be anywhere near anyone who might be buffed to avoid whatever health issues the buffs bring out for them. In other words, logging on now becomes a health hazard. This is not an improvement for those players, and it is something that the dev team can't claim didn't know could be an issue. It was brought up well before it went Live. They announced the change without considering all the implications. Then they chose to push it live anyway once it was pointed out. I find it to be rather unfathomable that it's considered acceptable for them to introduce a "feature" that actively hurts a portion of the player base after those players had been able to avoid it for for the most part for seven years. |
They've also been actively looking for effects that are causing physical problems, so if you've got some specific ones in mind, PM Tunnel Rat. She is the one making most of them now.
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After it goes to live is to late to fix the problem for those players though. It's something that should have been held off until AFTER they fixed it. As for it being a small AoE, that's fine... if you're outdoors. If you're on an indoor map? Not so much. And how do you avoid it if you're not even aware it's coming? Now you don't have to just worry about being the one who gets targeted, you also have to worry about being within 30 feet of someone who gets targeted. That's insane.|
Originally Posted by White Hot Flash
The range of the AoE is pretty small. You can easily avoid it once you establish how big it actually is.
They've also been actively looking for effects that are causing physical problems, so if you've got some specific ones in mind, PM Tunnel Rat. She is the one making most of them now. |
All the details were given beforehand by others. It's most mind-boggling because it's like they learned nothing from the issues that came from Sonics on some players. Look at how long that took to fix, and that was before we had power customization giving people the ability to create color combinations that could wreak havoc on people's eyes. I mean.... seriously? Do we really have to have people go through that sort of thing all over again just to make it easier for people to click one person to buff an entire group?
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Daemonchilde: ((fluffy thinks he's a tank)) Demon . Hunter: (( I think mine is >.> Daemonchilde: ((Yours is no longer fluffy, it is Obliteron, destroyer of worlds)) |
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I was not aware that any of the buffs were causing medical issues after sonics was changed however-long ago it was. So, I did not want to seem uncaring there, I just didn't think medical issues applied. The most I have heard lately is from the incarnate buffs, and those were not affected by this change. |
Originally Posted by The_Demon_Hunter
I would agree except there's more to it than that for some people. No, the problem isn't purely "I dont' want to be covered in ice" or some matter of cosmetic vanity. There are documented medical issues that some players have with some buffs that they now can't avoid. This was part of the problem brought up after the initial announcement.
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However, I still maintain that the number of people who benefit from the change is larger, if not a lot larger, than those it negatively affects, so it still should be implemented. There is no realistic way to ensure that no one is affected by a given graphic, so you could easily end up with a change that can never be implemented using those strict standards.
Buff canceling would be nice, but the last I heard there is just no reasonable way to do it. They actually did more than I thought they could with the movement speed options available via Null. I am all for an option, but I just don't see how they could do it given how buffs and debuffs work.
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Fix what? Did anyone post complaining that the ice shields gave them headaches or made them dizzy in the years since they were released? It was mentioned above: If the effect causes your physical discomfort PM Tunnel Rat or post it to her thread. If you just don't like it... Meh.|
Originally Posted by The_Demon_Hunter
After it goes to live is to late to fix the problem for those players though. It's something that should have been held off until AFTER they fixed it. As for it being a small AoE, that's fine... if you're outdoors. If you're on an indoor map? Not so much. And how do you avoid it if you're not even aware it's coming? Now you don't have to just worry about being the one who gets targeted, you also have to worry about being within 30 feet of someone who gets targeted. That's insane.
All the details were given beforehand by others. It's most mind-boggling because it's like they learned nothing from the issues that came from Sonics on some players. Look at how long that took to fix, and that was before we had power customization giving people the ability to create color combinations that could wreak havoc on people's eyes. I mean.... seriously? Do we really have to have people go through that sort of thing all over again just to make it easier for people to click one person to buff an entire group? |
To be blunt, if the shield effect bother someone so much, even when they just see someone with the shields on, perhaps a nice game of hi-res pong is more appropriate.
@bpphantom
The Defenders of Paragon
KGB Special Section 8
Elaborated on the Open League patch note to clarify that a 5-minute timer will start from the moment an Open league has reached the minimum number of participants for any given Incarnate Trial.
- This 5-minute delay will allow the Team-Up Teleporter system to look for more players queuing up for an Open League so there are potentially less players waiting in the queue after the start of the trial.
- The Trial will start when the timer reaches 5 minutes after the minimum number of participants has been reached or when the maximum number of participants has been gathered.
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Post them for Tunnel Rat. Gee. Why didn't someone think of that?|
Originally Posted by bpphantom
Fix what? Did anyone post complaining that the ice shields gave them headaches or made them dizzy in the years since they were released? It was mentioned above: If the effect causes your physical discomfort PM Tunnel Rat or post it to her thread. If you just don't like it... Meh.
To be blunt, if the shield effect bother someone so much, even when they just see someone with the shields on, perhaps a nice game of hi-res pong is more appropriate. |
Oh right. It's already been done. Nearly two months ago at this point, when some of these problems were brought up. The end result was that it will be fixed "eventually" so that people can change the graphics that cause problems on their end, but that it's a long way down the road.
Beyond that, this problem could have been avoided by simply leaving the game's buff mechanic as it was until this could be avoided. Wouldn't have hurt a single person any more that way than it already did. People would have been buffed occasionally, but they at least had a fighting chance before.
I'm saying this as someone who isn't affected by this problem and plays multiple buffing toons. This was a bad decision to not temporarily shelve the AoE buff changes, and it really reflects poorly on the people who let it go through.
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Daemonchilde: ((fluffy thinks he's a tank)) Demon . Hunter: (( I think mine is >.> Daemonchilde: ((Yours is no longer fluffy, it is Obliteron, destroyer of worlds)) |
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Five minutes seems a long time - I have a couple of suggestions:|
Originally Posted by Avatea
Elaborated on the Open League patch note to clarify that a 5-minute timer will start from the moment an Open league has reached the minimum number of participants for any given Incarnate Trial.
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- Display the timer. Right now, people don't know why the trial isn't starting.
- At the least, put a message up saying it's going to wait for more players.
- Set the "auto start" threshold to something less than the maximum size. (maybe 75% of the maximum trial size?)
- Just make a shorter delay. Five minutes is a very long time.
Synchrotron, level 50 Radiation/Radiation Defender
Fighting crime on Champion since 2004
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People can turn off all personal effects on themselves by creating a keybinds file with the command below and loading with /bindloadfile. |
Originally Posted by TehHippeh
Unless they cause havoc for your PC, I never understood the rage of people who get their costume covered up buy a shield effect. If you want to admire the costume, spend 10 minutes alone and unteamed before you log out and spin that camera around all you like :P
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CTRL+O "suppressCloseFxDist 300"
SHIFT+O "suppressCloseFxDist 4"
If you don't want your costume or character to be obscured by effects, for whatever reason, you can turn them off and on at will by pressing CTRL+O and SHIFT+O. This suppresses nearly all effects.
I know it ain't perfect, and it won't stop you from seeing effects on other players. But I've found those to be less problematic than the effects on my character anyway, because I can get away from the effects on other characters if I have to.
It's sad, IMO, that this has to be, but it's also true:
Before doing something like this, both devs and players need(ed) to think about how the change could be use to grief people (in this case, with unwanted, distracting, concealing and/or triggering FX).
Especially with all the fine new free players the game is going to be getting soon.
My characters at Virtueverse
Faces of the City
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Originally Posted by _Synchrotron_
Five minutes seems a long time - I have a couple of suggestions:
- Display the timer. Right now, people don't know why the trial isn't starting. - At the least, put a message up saying it's going to wait for more players. - Set the "auto start" threshold to something less than the maximum size. (maybe 75% of the maximum trial size?) - Just make a shorter delay. Five minutes is a very long time. |
So that's why I've been having issues launching a KIR trial with EI...
I totally agree with what Synchrotron said. If you won't make the 5 min. timer shorter, please at least show a countdown.
Also, if possible, let us invite people once the league joins a queue.
For example, I'm setting up a league in RWZ and get 18 people to join me (19 total) for a KIR (or a BAF whichever), now knowing that there is a 5 min. timer, I go ahead and join the KIR (or BAF) queue. Of course within those 5 mins. someone will inevitably come/log in and want in and since we have a spot open, I want to invite them in. As of now, as far as I can recall, I can't do this until I leave the queue.
I guess I could tell them to join the KIR (or BAF) queue but....*shrugs*
I'd say shorten the timer to 1 min. AND show the timer countdown.
Leader of The LEGION/Fallen LEGION on the Liberty server!
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I love the 5 minutes, but it absolutely needs a visual timer. 5 minutes is not a long time, but it feels MUCH longer when I have no idea how much has passed.
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
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Having run my first Keyes last night, I absolutely agree with all of the above.
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Originally Posted by Energizing_Ion
So that's why I've been having issues launching a KIR trial with EI...
I totally agree with what Synchrotron said. If you won't make the 5 min. timer shorter, please at least show a countdown. Also, if possible, let us invite people once the league joins a queue. For example, I'm setting up a league in RWZ and get 18 people to join me (19 total) for a KIR (or a BAF whichever), now knowing that there is a 5 min. timer, I go ahead and join the KIR (or BAF) queue. Of course within those 5 mins. someone will inevitably come/log in and want in and since we have a spot open, I want to invite them in. As of now, as far as I can recall, I can't do this until I leave the queue. I guess I could tell them to join the KIR (or BAF) queue but....*shrugs* I'd say shorten the timer to 1 min. AND show the timer countdown. |
My characters at Virtueverse
Faces of the City
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The sound FX for these powers is playing for each target hit - resulting in a near Deafening sound effect in the case Cold Shields (those were the only ones I witnessed during our Keyes Island waiting period.)|
Originally Posted by Avatea
Patch notes for build 2050.201106210214.1
Quality of Life Upgrades
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I play with the sound at 10%, with my global sound at around 15% - if I was playing with 100% ingame settings, I very well might have blown my speakers.
Other culprits of this are the Warshade Mire powers, and Howling Twilight (the latter being acceptable because it lets you know the effect is occurring on otherwise laggy content - re: Mothership raids).
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Originally Posted by Shubbie
Im very good at taking a problem and making it worse.
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Originally Posted by StratoNexus
I love the 5 minutes, but it absolutely needs a visual timer. 5 minutes is not a long time, but it feels MUCH longer when I have no idea how much has passed.
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I don't know...usually when I have a league ready to go...5 minutes and sometimes people are way too ADD and want to do it NAO! We are used to it heh
But if there was a timer for everyone to see then it wouldn't be so bad.
One or two things...
1.) If possible, change it so that if I have the max. needed for a trial (24 for BAF or KIR) already in my league and it's an "Open" league, and I join the queue for either BAF or KIR, please start it "Now". Doesn't make any sense to have to wait 5 minutes when you have the max you can have already.
2.) Again, if possible, if I have, let's say, 20 people ready for a KIR/BAF and we join the queue knowing it takes 5 mins, someone will inevitable quit and/or want to join; if there was a way to invite them to the league while we are waiting that'd be great.
Edit: Maybe this is why open leagues have the opportunity (get ?) an extra Astral Merit...have to wait 5 minutes
jk
Leader of The LEGION/Fallen LEGION on the Liberty server!
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MKW FC: 4167-4891-5991
Hey,
I like the change that everyone in trials will get the same amount of iXP across teams. This is a fair solution which should have been working this from the start.
But this approach also has a big problem. Approximately 1/2 to 2/3 of the players usually don't need iXP because they've already unlocked their slots. Previously, a good leader on a BAF could simply put those people on the adds team, enabling them to get like 40+% unlocked in one run. Now the excess iXP from the adds team gets distributed among all players and thus is lost.
This way people will take very much longer to unlock incarnate slots on other characters. Getting 10-12% from the usual BAF nowadays is much less than the average you got used to be.
Also, for some reason, average Lambda iXP for a run seems to have decreased as well. The Keyes trials yielded a neglegible 5% on both trees on the average for me.
It would be nice if you could increase iXP gain significantly so we don't need 8 trials to unlock a single slot, especially if we'd like to unlock incarnate stuff on several chars. And yes, I know you can also get the slots via converting threads.
@Manipulative Maiden
@Manipulative Maiden
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Hmmm, I am pretty sure I have been in full leagues that queued instantly, but I have not yet led a full league since the change, so maybe I missed something the leader did.|
Originally Posted by Energizing_Ion
1.) If possible, change it so that if I have the max. needed for a trial (24 for BAF or KIR) already in my league and it's an "Open" league, and I join the queue for either BAF or KIR, please start it "Now". Doesn't make any sense to have to wait 5 minutes when you have the max you can have already.
2.) Again, if possible, if I have, let's say, 20 people ready for a KIR/BAF and we join the queue knowing it takes 5 mins, someone will inevitable quit and/or want to join; if there was a way to invite them to the league while we are waiting that'd be great. |
One good thing to do after you queue, IMO, is too announce that fact as loudly as you can. After I queued up a 14 man Keyes last night, I announced in Broadcast and 3 different global channels that a Keyes was queued up. We ended up with 17. While the queue system is not yet good, recent changes have significantly improved using its great potential. I just recently suggested that upon entering the queue as an open league, a server wide announcement should automatically happen.
"I have just queued up a Keyes trial. If you want to join please press LFG, select the Keyes trial, and Queue in."
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
This was very poorly implemented. Color me more than a bit disappointed in the devs after this half-issue update.
Seriously, the ball was dropped in a big way here IMO.
But for the small percentage (relatively) of people who hate shields compared to the multitude of others who want them, and the group of people who will now play shield-based buffers because it is not as tedious? This absolutely should have been implemented now.
It has been known a long time that there are pretty challenging technical issues to overcome with regard to canceling a buff granted on you. Should they never implement any QoL like this unless they can handle every corner case?
Unless they cause havoc for your PC, I never understood the rage of people who get their costume covered up buy a shield effect. If you want to admire the costume, spend 10 minutes alone and unteamed before you log out and spin that camera around all you like :P