I just don't get it!

Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow [The Incarnate System is] Jack Emmert all over again, only this time it's not "1 hero = 3 white minions" it's "1 hero = 3 white rocks."

You can convert 10 shards to 10 threads once per day. You can convert 10 shards to 5 threads at any time.

I'm not aware that anyone has firmly nailed down the shard drop rate.

All current content specifically designed for incarnates is team-based. If you are asking if you can earn incarnate powers solo, the answer is yes, but it will be much slower than running trials or even weekly strike targets or standard team play. You would need to spend 156 threads to unlock all four post-Alpha slots without earning any trial XP, and the first-tier powers require a total of 60 threads to create entirely from scratch.

Well the conversion rates are pretty liberal, it seems.

What are the shard (or thread?) drop rates for each iTrial? I assume that normal content drop rates would be lower than an iTrail's?

Could I for example expect to get a single shard in, say, a single 4-hour solo game session fighting lvl 50 mobs? That rate or higher, and i'm happy with the solo route to incarnates.

I was under the impression that it was impossible to solo my way to a 'fully slotted' Incarnate. If it's just 'very slow', then fair enough.

Eco.

Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow [The Incarnate System is] Jack Emmert all over again, only this time it's not "1 hero = 3 white minions" it's "1 hero = 3 white rocks."

It is not impossible, but it likely take weeks or months on each character. We don't know shard drop rates, except that they drop much more frequently in task forces.

A few months back,I tried to farm for shards in regular content. I ran multiple clear all lib tv farms and it ended with me averaging less than one shard per run.

Well, this is a matter of some debate. Here's the abbreviated version.

First, incarnate trials don't just drop threads for kills, they also drop Astral Merits for completing tasks in the trial and Empyrean Merits for completing the trial (capped to one per trial per day, approximately: if you do the same trial twice in one day you get another astral instead of the Emp) and you get a random incarnate component at the end for completion also.

You're likely to average somewhere around 4 threads per trial run. You're also likely to average about four astral merits per trial run. And Astral merits can be converted into 4 threads a piece. So actually the astrals themselves can be converted into 16 threads, which means you can get the equivalent of about 20 threads per run.

Expanding on Wonderslug's numbers, Alpha, Interface, and Judgment require 1,500,000 iXP (incarnate XP) to unlock. Destiny and Lore require 2,250,000 iXP to unlock. You earn iXP killing things in trials, and different trials award one or both of two kinds of iXP: Physical and Psychic. Physical unlocks Alpha, Interface, and Destiny. Psychic unlocks Alpha, Judgment, and Lore. Expect to get about 5-10%ish of the total amount required per run.

Converting one thread into iXP generates 50,000 iXP. So it takes 30 threads to unlock Alpha, Interface, and Judgment. It takes 45 threads to unlock Destiny and Lore. To unlock all five would take 180 threads. But since you can unlock Alpha by just running Mender Ramiel's arc, that's a waste of threads (unless you have tons of them). To unlock the other four takes 150 threads. As you will be getting about 20 threads between actual thread drops and astral merits, 8 runs will definitely unlock everything. It will probably take less because you will be earning some iXP along the way anyway.

Otherwise, going the shard route you need to earn 150 shards and convert them into 150 threads. It will take 15 conversions of 10 shards to 10 threads, which will cost 15,000,000 inf (1,000,000 per conversion). How long will it take to earn 150 shards? Depends. Running task forces where you plow through, you'll likely to earn between 4 and 7 shards. Soloing, if you can solo 0x8 you might earn one shard every hour or two.

That's to unlock the slots. To slot powers in them will require actually crafting Incarnate powers, and that will also take stuff. It would be much easier in the trials. There's four kinds of incarnate component: common, uncommon, rare, and very rare. Forget the names, its just tier 1, 2, 3, and 4. Tier 1 powers take 3 tier 1 components. Each one will cost 20 threads (or 20 shards) to make. Tier 2 powers take 2 tier 1 and 1 tier 2 component to make, *plus* a tier 1 power (which gets consumed by the creation process). Tier 2 components take 60 threads to make. So to make a tier 1 power takes 60 threads. To make a tier 2 power *from scratch* takes 160 threads total - the cost of the tier 1 plus the additional cost of the tier 2. Tier 3 powers take a tier 2 power, plus 2 tier 1 components, plus a tier 3 component. Tier 3 components are very expensive to make from scratch: they take four tier 2 components and 100 threads (and 25,000,000 inf). And if you have to ask about tier 4...

Running trials assuming you don't run afoul of the participation algorithm, and the majority of players do not nearly all the time, you will get a component drop for every successful run. Component drops will convert downward without additional cost, and the most common drop in the trials is tier 2 ("uncommon" which is why I said ignore the names). So in effect in every run you're likely to get a drop that will satisfy the requirement for any tier 1 or 2 component. That plus those astral merits you're earning per run, which almost buy a common component on every run, makes running trials far faster. In fact, you could probably slot up to tier 2 at an average of 4 to 5 trial runs per slot (for Interface, Judgment, Lore, and Destinry) starting completely from scratch.


I would say if you're the sort of person that primarily plays one alt, is willing to accumulate shards over long periods of time, and is in no rush to have everything at once, unlocking and slotting with tier 1 powers is a credible long term goal for someone that doesn't want to run trials and wants to solo themselves into the incarnate system, but can at least solo at 0x4 to 0x8 most of the time. It will be a long term goal, however: probably a couple hundred hours of accumulated play. Slotting with tier 2 can be done outside the trials but it would be a really long term goal unless you at least run a lot of task forces - where the shard drop rate is higher. Slotting all tier 3 would be extremely difficult unless you could play in your sleep or are willing to put potentially years of play into it.

Thanks for the correction: I forgot they changed that.

Except for the original Mender Ramiel Story Arc. Which isn't much. =)

Thanks very much for this. I now see what's required. I think I'll go for the first tier on my own, and maybe if i can blag my way onto some trials I'll see about the rest.

I take it there are going to be ten Incarnate tiers eventually? That strikes me as requiring a hell of a lot of grinding trials.

Here's hoping they introduce more solo options for Incarnate stuff.

Thanks again, i understand the system now, i think.

Eco.

Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow [The Incarnate System is] Jack Emmert all over again, only this time it's not "1 hero = 3 white minions" it's "1 hero = 3 white rocks."

Hey, don't feel bad. I was gone for years and came back and had to learn the IO system and Incarnates both at the same time. It can be overwhelming because you haven't been 'slowly' learning the more complex stuff but instead get it like a fire hose all at once.

As for "are incarnate powers noticeable," its very noticeable. Not just due to the level shifts either. The increase in power you get from the Alpha and Interface slots can take the place of "global enhancements" in major ways. For example, with a Tier 4 slotted Alpha/Spiritual, you will find a major recharge buff that is very noticeable, especially if you already have been building your character out for high +Recharge via Hasten and IO +RCHGE sets.

The Lore Pets are noticeable if you solo a bunch, otherwise, I don't use them all that much other than for fun. The Judgment powers are like defender-level nukes and are very noticeable. The Destiny powers are nice buffs as well. But the real thing is when these powers start to STACK with other players who also have Incarnate powers slotted. You'll find yourself feeling "less powerful" when playing with others who have them and you don't. And this is, to some extent, the intent behind Incarnates from the COH dev team....they want you to be Jonesing to have what the other guy has. So you play your 50's, you experience the new content....yes, you'll grind it too.

Nonetheless, I'd highly recommend you get Incarnates on at least one of your lvl 50's. You may (like me) want to pimp out several of your 50's but that will take a substantial amount of your time. But you should have at least one just so you can experience all the new end-game content that is being thrown our way.

Aha, I hear ya, yeah I have a couple of 50's who are going through the incarnate pimping out process, and to everyone else who's helped, thank you very much!

Originally Posted by Nethergoat it's NEVER too late to pad your /ignore list!

The powers do work at the sub-50 over 45 range... I was running a level 48 through the Maria Jenkins story arc and had a few with incarnate powers that were blowing things apart with their Judgement.

Great googly moogly.... you got all that in just a couple days? Alrighty then... this soloing stuff for shards is for the birds. I need to run me some of these trials on my tanker (and get other characters up to level 50).

Actually the two t3's were done in one day, in two days ive got T3Alpha T3interface and T3 judgement, its really basic when you get into the swing of things, but it becomes hella repetitive.

That's like two all day marathons, in my opinion, but it's probably do-able. I usually run at most a couple of Trails per day before RL intervenes, so my progress has been a lot slower.

Yes, soloing pretty much is for the birds. I don't understand folks who seem rabidly opposed to teaming. I'll solo some Tips and other missions, but I often advertise for teammates just to have a bit of company along. But getting when components for Incarnate abilities the Trials are definitely where it's at.

Nah I'm still at university which means I don't get to sit all day by the computer! but today I have been off and so far i've got T3 in everything but lore. I will admit I got very lucky yesterday with 2 VR and 2 Rares

My only 50 (Midnight Shield) is a tanker, and while he was fun to level up mostly solo, I'm afraid of screwing things up and wiping a group in TFs and such. I realize in trials this probably isn't as much of an issue as it's even more unlikely that I'll be the only tanker, but there you go.

(And he made it to 50 first because other then him, I have regular alt-itis, and he was easier to play then any of the others, because he had huge amounts of survivability.)