COH Freedom: I want to buy Recipes with Points

Since you skip IOs anyway Sam I'm a bit confused as to in what way someone else having some IOs via the store is in any way "Winning"?


Not that I'm for selling them in the store, simply because I think Jam Tomorrow (ie having people ingame, striving towards a certain goal such as IOing out a build) is better for the long term health and active population of the game


But it's not a no because I feel someone else is "winning" over me any more than I think someone playing the markets for making of much imaginary wealth is winning over me.

Because the Inf would be cheaper. I got an email from a RMTer a week or two ago (they still do that?), and it said I could get 1,000,000,000 for $8. That's enough for 6 or 7 LotG on the market. The same $8 would buy ONE, with change left over under UP's suggestion. To make the two comprable, you'd have to buy the IO from the store for $1.25 or less, or the RMT would have the better price. I can't see the people who use RMT switching to Paragon Points if they cost 5-10x what the raw Inf does.

As to the OP: I'd never use the option. Inf is too easy to make. Merits are hard to AVIOD earning (they come with story arcs, vet rewards, and even BADGES now). A-Merits are pretty quick too, and more efficient purchasing power than R-Merits. I have more trouble choosing a character that's worth kitting out, than actually slotting them once I've decided.

I doubt that we'll get recipes in the store though. If we did, it would make the menu far too cumbersome. Easier by far to let you buy Merits, then send you to the vendor to redeem them.

I can agree with this aspect in one regard. I would rather see those micro-transactions come back and benefit us all in the long run. Not all of us have 10 hours a day to toil while someone else pays the bills. So, make influence/infamy a pay to play as well. Life is a gentle balance. Those who enjoy the game shouldn't be put at a disadvantage either (especially with CoH Freedom on the horizon) to feel discouraged when they see these AH prices! That's hardly a way to get ppl to 'UP' to a subscription.

On the other side of this coin, just cap the market price on rare/purple/pvp IO's. There's two ways to drive them right out of business and return that revenue back to the ppl that matter. That's just an opinion, but a fair one.

I find it humorous that those who are against this idea, are probably those hoarding and driving up the prices on the market with salvage and IO's. Wouldn't you rather have a community of players able to access those items in whatever way they see fit to play on a level field?

P.S. I've always said since playing this game, one thing you can't buy at WW's is skill and strategy.

You seem are ignorant of economics, so I don't expect you to understand this, but I'll try anyway: Price caps will drive prices up.

There already is a price cap. It's 2 billion influence on the market. The PvP +3% defense IO already sells for over this cap. I have personally sold one for 2.5 billion. If you price cap things at 1 billion or 100 million on the market, they just sell off market and become harder to find.

Supply and demand are what sets a price point. It's bloody difficult to set an artificial one. Especially a price cap.

You've pretty much just answered your own question, though.
Right now, I'd wager quite heavily that the majority of people don't delve too heavily into IOs, outside of maybe one or two main fifties, or franken slotting, which is usually only slightly superior to SOs and made to iron out certain kinks.

If fully purpled out IO characters become the new standard, then the Devs plain out would not be able to aim content at SOs anymore. If IOs were that easily available, and that prolific, then it would force Praetorian level difficulty and higher to be the new status quo. And that would be a bad thing.

Originally Posted by Zwillinger GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

Originally Posted by Captain_Photon NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

Hardly ignorant to the matter, I sold 2 for 3.2 bill just 3 days ago. You did that via networking though. Otherwise you rolled up on some rich random suckers. I should have elaborated, excuse me.

I fully understand supply and demand as well. As players it should be kept in the game as much as possible so we benefit in the long run. (You must've skimmed that part) i.e. a boycott. Play locally and buy locally etc... it won't happen and I understand that. Because greed drives us all.

But let's admonish the individual who suggested buying influ/infamy with micro-transactions. How dare him try to spend his hard earned money in game and have it reward us with dividends outside of our visual scope presently.

They already do! IO drops fall out of the sky for a reason. Craft them! Slot your character properly with them ( I do this all the time) If they don't suit the build, then craft them anyway and make some influ/infamy.

Sadly, your incoming gamer is not going to be so willing to do so. Hell, you're current average gamer isn't either. Time is money!

If an incoming gamer is not willing to invest time and effort in the system, then why should they get the rewards? You might as well just let them buy level 50s, fully unlocked Incarnates, and the keys to the City if you're going to do that. And, while I despise the limited unlock options for Incarnate stuff, I would still be 100% against having people simply buy it, because it totally defeats the point of the game.

This is a case of what people think they want, and what they actually should get.
People think they want it all now. A fully purpled level 50 that can one shot Tyrant. However, you give them that? And they will be bored nearly instantly. I found this with my re-levelling Invul/Enrg Tanker. I would like to get him to 50, but he's currently level 25. However, I recently ran a mission where nearly everyone else team-wiped, and I was tanking the entire room.
And I tanked it. They got back up, regrouped, and came hauled me out of the mound of beaten bodies. By the time he's level 50, he'll be a steel wall of doom. And it will be all the more satisfying for having put the effort into it.

See the craft-based game of Mining. Earning something is far more satisfying and, indeed, better for player retention and game longevity, than simply giving everyone everything for a cash fee.

Originally Posted by Zwillinger GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

Originally Posted by Captain_Photon NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

Oh, you mean like Vet rewards that will be able to be purchased if you choose to a la carte?

Because it's a business, and that's how you make money. They'll have to invest the time to learn to play, but if imho if they decide to throw their money at the game I have no problem with that.

You also don't come by what you have just by honest play, you're either farming (PvE or PvP) or using some form of exploits.

Hopefully, you're like I am and welcome new players and guide them as well as help them understand the system as it is. How to make money independently etc..

And of course not, that's assumption. With great power comes great responsibility. But, if they wanna spend their money doing so I have no problem with that. Again, hopefully giving people like those in my network and community take them under their wing and teach them to crawl before they walk and so on.

I'm not entirely sure what game you're playing where there is no 'honest play'. I got my Main MM IO'd (the only character I have nearly finished) by a long time spent marketing for IOs, lucky drops and the generosity of SG and channel mates, where he have a 'what goes around come around' mentality.

I have never farmed, and I have most certainly not exploited. The 'reality' you claim to exist is one I have never seen.

Also, thats not the impression I got from the details. I read as if the Vet rewards are staying, but you can now instead choose in which order you get them. You are not 'buying them' any more than a current subscriber is. You are simply able to pick the order.
The above is purely speculation, pending further details from the Devs. That is, frankly, all we can do; guess.

Originally Posted by Zwillinger GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

Originally Posted by Captain_Photon NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

No it's not. It's a fact. We already saw what happens when brand new players were able to get near instantanous 50's when the Mission Architect was released. The majority of them never resubbed after their free month expired.

We've seen the NCSoft financial reports that verify it.

Indeed, all we can do is speculate. But what we know is this is a business model and it only makes good business sense. They're not opening this up for F2P on a whim. It's been in the works for quite some time and I applaud them for it.

However, to pick and choose even through vet rewards I would have had to earn with a loyal subscription is not that very different from saying, "Hmm I believe I'll buy some infu/infamy today". As vet rewards are an earned thing, thus to is infamy/influ or recipes/IO's.

I was only pointing out that it's a business, and making vet rewards is no different than influ/infamy. Sure, there will be certain things in the game you will have to earn (i.e. Ascension armor). I admire the benefits of pay to play as much as I welcome F2P is all.

This goes for the players as well as the developers. The dev's I feel are working well to give us more upcoming content to run those choose to 'UP' and subscribe.

I'm sorry AE/MA was/is an abused model, because you had tons of ppl wanting to be PL'd and a player base unwilling to do so endlessly.( AE/MA = the n00b factory) Otherwise, there would still not be Mods stopping in there on occasion to make sure no exploits were being abused. If this wasn't obvious to them, then they wouldn't have cut off F2P access to it as well as broadcast. Premium to get gain access to access certain things, correct? That's pay to play as well!

They gave players the tools to exploit, and sadly it took away quality time because people are always gonna try to find cheats and loopholes. However, I applaud what I am hearing on Ustream from Paragon Studios and glad to see this new feature coming to light. Ideals don't pay the bills, good business and revenue generation does.

Vet Rewards will still nedd to be earned with account loyalty. The only differences are that

1. Instead of being restricted to receiving a specific reward at a specific time we will have the freedom to pick the rewards we want most first.

2. Veterans that take advantage of paying for their account a year in advance will have the additional reward of getting their Vet Reward points to spend immediately. Why is that fair you ask? Simply because paying a year in advance is a risk. The game can shut down a week after they pay for their account and they won't get a refund.

Because I don't like games where gameplay comes down to who invests the most money. I used to go to arcades when I was a kid, and how well I did at a game usually came down to how many credits I put in. But that's not as relevant as how I play arcade games now - on an emulator with infinite credits. I can blunder my way through every encounter, die a thousand times, and all I have to do is press the 2 key a few times and BANG! 9 more credits, meaning about 27 more lives. And that's only because the credit counter only has one digit.

Arguing that time and energy are another form of currency and should therefore be treated like money (an argument you didn't make, but which IS a strong reason for this suggestion) isn't applicable here. People play games to get what they can't get in real life, at least the ones I know do. In real life, I'm not super rich. I can't decide to buy a new shiny car and just go do it. But in a game, this doesn't matter, because it's not a question of how good I am AT LIFE, it's a question of how good I am AT THIS GAME. If I'm good at the game, then nothing else matters.

I'm sure you've heard stories from all sorts of people with disabilities. One was so crippled he could essentially only use something like two fingers on one hand, and yet to most people in-game, he was just a somewhat slower, but otherwise perfectly normal player. We've seen a lot of people who avoid social contact in real life, but who run SGs here, and form teams and and lead TFs and so forth. It's because in City of Heroes, it doesn't matter who and indeed what you are in real life, because all that matters is what you do with the game.

The less real life and, by extension, real money, is a factor of the game, the happier I'll be. I have enough trouble juggling bills and expenses in real life. I don't want that headache here. I don't want a second life with more peer pressure, money troubles and social classes. I can accept that I can't have something in a game just because it's not fun to get. It's much harder to swallow that I can't have something because I'm not paying enough money, however. That's one aspect of real life I want nowhere near my games, and it has nothing at all to do with what others have.

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I do not want the option to "pay to win" to even exist in a game, irrespective of who does what with it.

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

And none of that changes the fact that we know that players that get everything they want instantly without earning it get bored and leave. The devs know they can't make money off of people that aren't playing.

Sam, I fully agree to some extent. However, without continued revenue nothing goes on. If there were 50 of you in that arcade, it wouldn't have been able to sustain to pay the bills and continue to flourish for new games (facets in this case) to continue to enjoy.

That money has to come from somewhere. I am not rich either, however if those who want to pump money into the arcade so I can keep playing, I have no qualms with that. As long as those who are in control keep it on an even keel as best they know how by trial and error.

Any good business model will show you that. Let's use a bar for example (This is my field for a living so my analogy). Presently, they're on the right track. Cater to your regulars and those that want to buy rounds for the rest of the bar so be it! Those rounds/shots are micro-transactions and reflect in the revenue. Even if they never come in again, it's about the later clientele you attract to keep the engine moving and all of it's components by the same principle as long as you operate under good responsible business practices.

Is every promotion (i.e. the AE/MA thing) gonna pan out? No, obviously not that's just the nature of the beast. If they had all of the answers this wouldn't even be a discussion. It's how you keep driving and trying and giving access. VIP and even premium I am very excited about. I think this is a huge step in the right direction, especially considering they have more staff and a solid team in place to see it through.

This is all speculation and opinion, but I like where you're coming from there. I do not want Champion (my home server) awash with n00bs who no matter if they were purple IO's don't know how to operate the toon they are playing! So, great suggestion!

I personally take my time to find ppl that really are interested and not just "Can I get a PL" that really want to earn their way through the game. Those are the people we see after and embrace, as I'm sure most other servers do as well (I hope). Because that is one of the best tools they have in game, is their community and I'm glad to hear them acknowledge it.

From the info we have, I don't think the new 'vet' rewards will have a time gating mechanism.

You get 1 PR token per month you subscribe, which can be used to unlock what are essentially vet rewards. So, that way is more or less the same as vet rewards except you get to choose which one you get (I think this will be limited by a tree, so some have to be unlocked before others become available)

But you will also get PR tokens other ways

So, it will be something like every X number of points you buy (I'd guess x is $15 worth), you get a Vet reward token thrown in. Also, if you pay for more than 1 months subscription at once, you get your tokens upfront, so even if you don't buy any PPs, you can still 'buy' tokens ahead by paying for 6 months or a years sub. So, seems like are no longer rewards for how long you have been playing, but rewards that reflect how much money, overall, you have spent on the game.

So far, PP=400 per month for VIP's

Yeah that's a monthly Vet Reward for keeping your account active, and Vet's are going to be earning that reward for several months before the game goes F2P as long as they keep their accounts active.