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In that instance, I'd agree that Regen could use some debuff resistances by justification of not fulfilling its thematic role.|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
If you lack debuff resistances, that might be a good thing to add if there is a need to add anything. But without that justification to buff in the first place, the absence of debuff resistance is meaningless.
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Speaking from the perspective of an Elec/Regen stalker, the regen set is suppose to be a downtime decreaser, right? Basically healing damage back quickly, needing less energy to run fully and recover from battles faster.
It works decently in those regards, but it still comes off as a bumpy road. I can forgive the set for its lack of Quick Recovery, but in the face of -recover and endurance drains, the set can't even use its own mitigating powers (barring MoG since it is extremely cheap). And when you manage to end the battle, either by defeating the foe or running away, it's a balancing act of using what little endurance you have to recover your HP.
Integration should come with -recovery/END drain resists to counter. If only practically every set didn't have such debuff resist, I'd try and seriously suggest it, but it's already being passed out left and right. -Regen is probably useless unless the debuff resist comes in large numbers. Regen debuffs aren't really common either. But -recharge feels like they're everywhere. They're in psi attacks, ice attacks, glue attacks, guns using ice ammo, gravity controls, spines/thorns, nets...Considering most of the mitigating powers are clicks, I think a measure of -recharge debuffs help mechanically and thematically. A regenerative meta's body isn't slow for anything, they should always recover, regenerate and react with their natural competency no matter what mental, biological or mystical forces are attempting to augment their body.
As for Revive, shortening the animation period to give the user the chance to use their regen powers is all that it needs. I'd also probably add in the 'Power Siphon Recharge' mechanic to Revive that automatically recharges all of regen's powers upon use. You know, to spice it up
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Are there any sets that can claim to be able to fulfill their thematic role while out of endurance?|
Originally Posted by Leo_G
In that instance, I'd agree that Regen could use some debuff resistances by justification of not fulfilling its thematic role.
Speaking from the perspective of an Elec/Regen stalker, the regen set is suppose to be a downtime decreaser, right? Basically healing damage back quickly, needing less energy to run fully and recover from battles faster. It works decently in those regards, but it still comes off as a bumpy road. I can forgive the set for its lack of Quick Recovery, but in the face of -recover and endurance drains, the set can't even use its own mitigating powers (barring MoG since it is extremely cheap). And when you manage to end the battle, either by defeating the foe or running away, it's a balancing act of using what little endurance you have to recover your HP. Integration should come with -recovery/END drain resists to counter. If only practically every set didn't have such debuff resist, I'd try and seriously suggest it, but it's already being passed out left and right. -Regen is probably useless unless the debuff resist comes in large numbers. Regen debuffs aren't really common either. But -recharge feels like they're everywhere. They're in psi attacks, ice attacks, glue attacks, guns using ice ammo, gravity controls, spines/thorns, nets...Considering most of the mitigating powers are clicks, I think a measure of -recharge debuffs help mechanically and thematically. A regenerative meta's body isn't slow for anything, they should always recover, regenerate and react with their natural competency no matter what mental, biological or mystical forces are attempting to augment their body. As for Revive, shortening the animation period to give the user the chance to use their regen powers is all that it needs. I'd also probably add in the 'Power Siphon Recharge' mechanic to Revive that automatically recharges all of regen's powers upon use. You know, to spice it up |
I'm actually not fond of endurance drain in City of Heroes specifically. Its a pet peeve of mine that endurance drain really violates the principles of good game design in the way it interacts with the way powersets and individual powers are designed. Especially when its specifically used as a deliberate weapon against the players, such as in the case of the Sapper. I wouldn't characterize this as specifically a Regen problem, though.
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Quote:
i tried keyes trial on a ill/cold with the only self heal being green insp and hibernate|
Originally Posted by UberGuy
On the one hand, it probably left me without a good feel for what someone without strong self heals needs to be doing to survive. On the other hand, it let me run around and figure out how other stuff worked.
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it was just absolutely awful, if i didnt put the person spamming aoe heals on follow i was basically in the hospital every 2-3 antimatter pulses, and i already left my feedback about that in the proper threads
going through that has left a very bad taste for the keyes trial and i doubt i will ever run the keyes trial on anything that does not have a quick charging self heal that i can spam (unless of course its toned down to a more reasonable level)
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This is one of those things where we compare SO slotted Regen to IO slotted "other" set isn't it? Because few if any scrappers are going to do well on +2x5 without layering them with some other kind of mitigation. This is not unique to regen and without other kinds of mitigation being layered, base regen is going to be near the tops in performance.|
Originally Posted by Santorican
The issue with Regeneration is that it has to be layered with some other kind of mitigation otherwise it isn't up to par with other secondaries. Pair it with Fire Melee and at +2x5 my Scrapper is usually dead or close to dying and has no more clicks left and I've been playing him for a few hundred hours now so it isn't like I'm inexperienced with Regeneration.
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The argument for regen buffs can only be made once we start IOing the sets and even then I am not convinced except in the highest levels of solo challenge play. That seems like an odd outlier to make a buff argument around.
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Originally Posted by Santorican
And please don't bring in I'd like to see "x" looked at before "y" into any discussion. That is one of the lamest argument if I've ever heard one.
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Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
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And in top tier Regen builds for solo challenge play, we're still seeing very competitive survivability numbers on paper. Probably best with Katana or Broad Sword, but John Printemps calculated very good numbers for a Claws/Regen as well. Actually ACHIEVING that on-paper performance is always a challenge with Regeneration, but some people can pull it off. (And I'm not saying I could personally pull it off - it's probably been a year or more since I've used my Katana/Regen to my build's potential, and my I12/I13ish build has less than half the survivability you can get these days.)
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Originally Posted by StratoNexus
The argument for regen buffs can only be made once we start IOing the sets and even then I am not convinced except in the highest levels of solo challenge play. That seems like an odd outlier to make a buff argument around.
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It depends what you consider the set's thematic role. Super Reflexes still 'dodges' better even with no endurance. Invulnerability still resists damage with no endurance. Dark Armor is basically END => Effect set, so that it can't do anything without endurance (even need 'souls' if you want to bring yourself back to life) seems thematic.|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Are there any sets that can claim to be able to fulfill their thematic role while out of endurance?
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Is Regeneration's thematic role suppose to be 'highly shortened downtime'? If so, there are still issues with that on my Stalker when faced with endurance drains. He can't recover any faster than others so, when needing to regenerate, he needs to spend endurance but if there's -recovery or he was drained, he'll recover *slower* because he's got to spend it to heal. I've got no problem with not having QR, or needing to spend endurance to heal, it's that I'll be recovering slower than others because of it. And that doesn't quite fit with the set's theme.
Very good points here. To clarify, I was indeed referring to non-scrapper sets as needing attention before Regen. Given limited developer time, and the fact that I play a lot of different toons, that's not a lame comment.
Strato and Arcana have already made the important points. If Devs get around to it, Soulwind's list is solid.
Again, it's easy to find situationally poor performances for Regen. Fire is always tricky, because it's only damage mitigation is hp debuff. But my Spines/Regen can be awesome. He can compete with even above average Blasters for dam output, but I doubt there's a Blaster out there who can compare with his survivability. He can do certain farms at +4/x8, just not general content. But on normal missions and pretty much any team, he's a beast. Buff him and he'd be as stupid as a Dom (who are broken).
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I do not like that /regen stalkers do not have QR. It was an error to remove it for stalkers.
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Originally Posted by Leo_G
I've got no problem with not having QR, or needing to spend endurance to heal, it's that I'll be recovering slower than others because of it. And that doesn't quite fit with the set's theme.
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Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
I'm not a fan of the loss of QR, but I suspect that fixing that probably calls for changes to what powers are given to all Stalker secondaries. (Given extant examples of slottable inherent powers, I believe that Hide (at a minimum) should be inherent. Using that approach to give QR back to Regen Stalkers means giving powers back to all the other secondaries.)
I'm a lot more aggravated by the interaction between the increased Stalker HP, Dull Pain, and the Stalker HP cap. Taking a Regen Stalker along on the iTrials has really made me pine for the lost +%HP that interaction costs. I've been aggravated by it on paper ever since Stalkers got their HP buff, but the iTrials aggravate me with it in practice.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Several thoughts:
~ One thing I don't like about Regen is actually the loss of DPS that all the clicks cause when the character is pushing limits. Weapon sets are even worse with redraw. As recharge increases and the clicks come faster and faster the activation time becomes more prevalent. It's not a huge drawback, but it is an issue.
It's even worse if the character fills in the mitigation holes with Shadowmeld, which has a punishing activation time.
(Of course, my /SR uses Aid Self which is just as bad, but I don't actually hit it that often in normal play.)
~ On the other hand, Regen tends to perform better than expected in teamed high end content because it is less reliance on the "typical" scrapper/brute tricks of defense stacking. As the developers attack high end solo builds with higher soft caps and other tricks, Regen's many clicks and tricks actually let it perform fairly well. If this holds up, difficult content may actually end up debuffing other sets down to Regen's level. I don't know if that's an argument against buffing or not buffing, but I found it interesting.
~ That said, a high recharge Regen with supplemental mitigation such as Parry or Shadowmeld can be very hard to kill.
Moonlighter
50s include MA/SD, MA/SR, DP/Elec, Claw/Inv, Kat/Dark, Kat/Fire, Spine/Regen, Dark/SD
First Arc: Tequila Sunrise, #168563
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That's all I was asking for really. I'd like a little more -regen resistance than that, but I'd be happy if we got those numbers. I was thinking 20% -regen resistance in Resilience as well for a total of 40% |
Originally Posted by Soulwind
To fix Regen:
1) Give it the same -Regen resistance in Fast Healing that Willpower has. 2) Give it some small amount (say 20%) -Recharge resistance in Resiliance. 3) Add the "standard" untouchable period to Revive that all the other self-rez powers have. 4) Sit back and bask in the glow of adoration of all of us /Regen scrappers. |
A little bit of debuff resistance so the merest hint of a debuff isn't squashing a regen like a bug.
I can't even tell you how many times I faceplanted simply because my recharge and regen got debuffed at the same time. No regeneration meant I was not healing anything back passively, and my recharge being debuffed into the dirt meant that not only were my click heals not recharging, but my attacks weren't either, which left me unable to kill the thing debuffing me. If I had no inspirations left and MoG was not available, I was quite simply dead.
It's a situation that most other sets don't have to deal with.
Do I want a huge buff to Regen? No, just a small amount of debuff resistance.
Fiery Aura got slow resistance added to a passive power, and it is much less reliant on click powers for survival than Regen is. Willpower got -regen resistance, and it has more layers of mitigation than Regen to get through before the healing is necessary. Willpower's -regen resistance even comes in one of 2 powers in the set that is otherwise an exact copy of the power in regen.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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Well, you can either cope or not play it. Because this most likely won't change.
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Originally Posted by StratoNexus
I do not like that /regen stalkers do not have QR. It was an error to remove it for stalkers.
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This is simply not true. Debuffs can crush most other armored sets and in many cases in ways much worse than regen can be affected.|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
It's a situation that most other sets don't have to deal with.
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Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
Fiery Aura got slow resistance added to a passive power, and it is much less reliant on click powers for survival than Regen is. Willpower got -regen resistance, and it has more layers of mitigation than Regen to get through before the healing is necessary. Willpower's -regen resistance even comes in one of 2 powers in the set that is otherwise an exact copy of the power in regen.
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Regens also have a tactical option that is very appropriate when debuffed (regen, recharge, defense, any debuff really) that is not wise for many other armored sets. They can kite for a few seconds. SR, Stone, and Ninjitsu are really the only other sets that can employ kiting without a substantial hit to their other abilities (and Stone really can't kite). And while those other three can kite, kiting is much, much more beneficial to a regen in most circumstances.
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Originally Posted by Leo_G
Well, you can either cope or not play it. Because this most likely won't change.
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(They could just add 20% recovery to Fast Healing or Resilience, but I have some fairies to go chat with now, so excuse me).
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
Quote:
First of all, regeneration's thematic role isn't lower downtime, that's more its mechanical advantage. But Stalker Regen still recovers health faster than other sets even with low or zero endurance. Regen still regenerates without endurance. You seem to be trying to construct the argument that the purpose to regeneration is to recover endurance faster and the lack of QR makes that impossible. But that's a circular argument.|
Originally Posted by Leo_G
It depends what you consider the set's thematic role. Super Reflexes still 'dodges' better even with no endurance. Invulnerability still resists damage with no endurance. Dark Armor is basically END => Effect set, so that it can't do anything without endurance (even need 'souls' if you want to bring yourself back to life) seems thematic.
Is Regeneration's thematic role suppose to be 'highly shortened downtime'? If so, there are still issues with that on my Stalker when faced with endurance drains. He can't recover any faster than others so, when needing to regenerate, he needs to spend endurance but if there's -recovery or he was drained, he'll recover *slower* because he's got to spend it to heal. I've got no problem with not having QR, or needing to spend endurance to heal, it's that I'll be recovering slower than others because of it. And that doesn't quite fit with the set's theme. |
Second, there's the question of whether Regeneration has intrinsically better or worse endurance consumption. Looking at Dull Pain, Reconstruction, and Instant Healing if we add up the eps of all three powers unslotted if they are used as they recharge we get about 0.218 eps. If we slot them all for recharge and basically double their recharge rate we get 0.436 eps. That plus Integration at 0.26 eps, the cost of the average mitigation toggle, is Regen's endurance cost to run at full power, assuming we don't slot any of those powers with endurance reduction. With just one endred in Integration the total cost is 0.631 eps. That's pretty low for a stalker set. I'm pretty sure its lower than Ninjitsu, Dark Armor, SR, and Willpower while still being competitive with the performance of those Stalker sets. Only Electric Armor and Energy Aura, which both have endurance manipulation as a *core* ability of the sets would likely beat out Regen in terms of endurance.
There's no stalker invuln, but if we compare stalker SR with stalker Regen if both have zero endurance the regen will still return to full health faster due to fast healing. If both have low but non-zero health the regen will return to full even faster by being able to turn on integration. The only way the Regen will recover endurance more slowly than the SR in this situation is if the SR turns off his or her toggles, regardless of the use of Regen click powers. Stalker Regen still has a significant mechanical advantage in both health and endurance downtime, just less of one for endurance than Scrapper Regen has.
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So, why is 40% -regen resistance and 20% -recharge resistance so much to ask for?
Does even that small of an amount of debuff resistance suddenly make /Regen overpowered? Even if it is unenhanceable debuff resistance?
I'm not asking for godmode, and I'm not asking to be completely immune to those debuffs. I'm just asking for smaller amounts of those debuffs to not be so crippling. I just want enough debuff resistance so that when I do get debuffed, I can pop Instant Healing and be about where I was before I got debuffed.
And for the record: A lot of recharge debuffs go hand in hand with movement speed debuffs. It's really difficult to kite anything while you're moving at a crawl.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
I would like to see a fix that would improve the set to a level that would be acceptable for proliferation by tankers and brutes.
In game I had a discussion with my teammates during a blue side respec about this very topic. One of the suggestions thrown out was to give /Regen a toggle that improved both RES and DEF based on the number of enemy within range. Another suggestion was to also add a toggle that increased global recharge based on the number of enemies in range (metabolic rate increased).
Suspending all belief and disregarding the "cottage rule" for a moment how would you fix Regen for a porting over to Brutes/Tankers?
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The bottom line is that its probably not too much to ask for, but that fact doesn't help the suggestion at all. Suggestions require compelling reasons to do them besides "is it too much to ask" or they just won't ever happen. They never do.|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
So, why is 40% -regen resistance and 20% -recharge resistance so much to ask for?
Does even that small of an amount of debuff resistance suddenly make /Regen overpowered? Even if it is unenhanceable debuff resistance? I'm not asking for godmode, and I'm not asking to be completely immune to those debuffs. I'm just asking for smaller amounts of those debuffs to not be so crippling. I just want enough debuff resistance so that when I do get debuffed, I can pop Instant Healing and be about where I was before I got debuffed. And for the record: A lot of recharge debuffs go hand in hand with movement speed debuffs. It's really difficult to kite anything while you're moving at a crawl. |
40% resistance to regen is also probably a lot higher than you'd get, even if the devs ever decided on their own to add it for their own reasons.
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Well I never made the argument Regen couldn't regenerate faster than the other sets with 0 endurance, that was you that brought the part of "well do any armor sets function thematically with no endurance?" which wasn't really my point.|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
First of all, regeneration's thematic role isn't lower downtime, that's more its mechanical advantage. But Stalker Regen still recovers health faster than other sets even with low or zero endurance. Regen still regenerates without endurance. You seem to be trying to construct the argument that the purpose to regeneration is to recover endurance faster and the lack of QR makes that impossible. But that's a circular argument.
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Then it kind of ignores that Regen most likely wants near topped off HP before starting a fight, which is kind of the function of that quick downtime reduction. One doesn't need to always start a fight at full when you're WP, SR, Dark, Elec, etc.
But then if Regen's theme isn't lower downtime (that's the only way I rationalize Regen's lackluster mitigation on a Stalker with its low HP/HP cap that tends to slash Dull Pain at the kneecaps then stabs and twists the knife with regards to the regen buffs the set touts as a whole), what is it? To just heal fast? Well I can say, without inspirations and set bonuses, it doesn't heal fast enough (or the healing powers don't recharge fast enough) to compete with regular builds that can take on higher than normal difficulty content.
Or am I off base there? I can easily run certain characters (Dark, Electric, SR, Energy) at at least +1/x3 without popping inspirations constantly and just basic 30/35 IOs. Regen is a lot different. Hit and run tend to be his defense (or hiding behind obstacles), inspirations are his blood and anything that stops him from running and debuffs his endurance tend to screw him completely. If I'm glued or slowed, I can't slow damage enough and those slows tend to come with recharge debuffs.
Maybe I'm just not building him right. As an Elec/Regen stalker, my tactics can usually compensate, but it's still particularly harder compared to, say, my DM/WP or my Spines/DA who are simply too hard to take down or disrupt enemy attacks. For the regen, it's basically hit hard and, if you're not completely dead, click something and keep going. If you *are* dead, hopefully you were on your toes and now around a corner for Revive.
But I've gone on a tangent...I was meaning to link back to my previous argument. As is, slows, -rech, -regen and pretty much every debuff that un-does my inspirations neuters my /Regen. For my /DA, it's mainly just -ToHit and for my WP...hmm, I just don't recall being bothered too much by debuffs...even dying isn't so bad for him...
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It is worth noting that Leo_G was specifically discussing Regen's endurance concerns after being end drained. Every set you mention in your post will deal with end drains better than Regen.|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
I'm pretty sure its lower than Ninjitsu, Dark Armor, SR, and Willpower while still being competitive with the performance of those Stalker sets. Only Electric Armor and Energy Aura, which both have endurance manipulation as a *core* ability of the sets would likely beat out Regen in terms of endurance.
There's no stalker invuln, but if we compare stalker SR with stalker Regen if both have zero endurance the regen will still return to full health faster due to fast healing. If both have low but non-zero health the regen will return to full even faster by being able to turn on integration. The only way the Regen will recover endurance more slowly than the SR in this situation is if the SR turns off his or her toggles, regardless of the use of Regen click powers. Stalker Regen still has a significant mechanical advantage in both health and endurance downtime, just less of one for endurance than Scrapper Regen has. |
Whether or not one considers QR a primary thematic feature of Regen is up to the individual. I thought it was until Issue 6 (actually I still think it is, but I realize that my opinion does not agree with the opinion's of those who matter). I respect the choice the devs made and I can see how from a certain PoV QR was not part of the regen theme, but my PoV differs.
I still find it ironic that Regen, and later WP, had QR removed, but Elec and Energy kept BOTH of their end management powers (on top of Electric's drain/recovery resists). It goes to prove your point that the devs see End manip is a core ability of those two sets, while it was not seen that way for Regen or WP. But just because you are right about the devs view doesn't mean I have to agree. 
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
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True. My stalker has to deal with that much more than my scrapper, since my scrapper can withstand a move debuff or three thanks to set bonuses, the ability to keep sprint on, and having both swift and hurdle*. However, that does not change the fact that kiting is still a tactic that a regen can use much more often and freely than most other sets.|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
And for the record: A lot of recharge debuffs go hand in hand with movement speed debuffs. It's really difficult to kite anything while you're moving at a crawl.
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*Even before inherent fitness, my scrapper had swift and hurdle. This thread has given me the impetus to finally respec my stalker into inherent fitness. Yay, hurdle, fast healing, resilience and revive! Now I just need an ITF to upgrade my tier 1 Spiritual to tier 3! Go forum threads for getting me to do stuffs I have been neglecting.
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
If it were up to me I'd change Resilience to 7.5% resistance to all but psi and add a 25% resistance to -regen to it and FH for a total of 50%. Then I'd change IH and Integration to be fully enhanceable again.
I am an ebil markeeter and will steal your moneiz ...correction stole your moneiz. I support keeping the poor down because it is impossible to make moneiz in this game.
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*Scratches head.*|
Originally Posted by StratoNexus
It is worth noting that Leandro was specifically discussing Regen's endurance concerns after being end drained. Every set you mention in your post will deal with end drains better than Regen.
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I did what now? I'm not Leo_G.
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I would add a second tier 7 power called Absorb Physical Damage. It would be a Scale 3 (22.5% for Scrappers) smashing, lethal, toxic resist toggle. It would be mutually exclusive with Instant Healing. Take one, you can't have the other, similar to how Night Widows cannot have both followup and build up.
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Originally Posted by Saltyhero13
Suspending all belief and disregarding the "cottage rule" for a moment how would you fix Regen for a porting over to Brutes/Tankers?
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The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
If it wasn't for cascade failure, the protection that defense sets would have against defense debuffs would be actual defense: the ability to evade attacks and debuffs with them. This argument for DDR *only* applies to defense debuffs: it applies to no other debuffs.
Ignoring sets with defense and DDR, is it true that at least the other sets have debuff resistance to ensure that no set lacks it? For at least one set I can say with certainty the answer is no. Invulnerability only gained debuff resistance in I13. It gained them not because the set was lacking debuff protection, but rather because Castle wanted to buff the Invuln's passives. He didn't want to go crazy buffing the resistances and defense of those passives, so he buffed the resistances a bit in some cases and gave them a rainbow of debuff resistances.
Invuln is illustrative. Invuln didn't get debuff resistances *because* it was missing debuff resistances. Invuln got debuff resistances because there was a justification to buff the set, or at least some of its powers. It ended up with debuff resistances because it needed something and that something just happened to be debuff resistances.
If you lack debuff resistances, that might be a good thing to add if there is a need to add anything. But without that justification to buff in the first place, the absence of debuff resistance is meaningless.
One more thing: Invuln needed a *small* buff to its passives, so it got small buffs. Just because every set has debuff protection, doesn't mean everyone has *high* debuff protection. Without a justification for a massive buff, the best regen can hope for if the devs decide to make this argument go away is to get something like 20% resistance to regen debuffs. If your primary worry is getting hit by massive multi-hundred point regen debuffs that can halt instant healing, 20% resistance to regen debuffs will probably not be impressive. But this argument dies. Worse, the existence of the debuff resistance will mean you lose the ability to make a stronger argument for stronger resistance later. Changes are made when a threshold of requirement is crossed. Adding tiny less productive buffs makes it harder to prove that threshold has been breached.
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