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Originally Posted by Lohenien
I'm totally on board with Fast Healing having the same -regen resistance that willpower gets, since WP has much more diverse tools on top of it's regen and better rez.
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I hope they do add it to /Regen at some point.
If anything so more people can realize just how truly useless an amount it is when actually facing -regen debuffs.
Eh, if they put a -20% regen debuff resistance into fast healing, and -80% regen debuff resistance into IH (as its Instant Healing, no amount of -regen should negate it, and currently a malta mech looking at you funny floors your regeneration, even with IH running)
that'll give you a passive amount of make it less likely your regen is floored, and when you hit IH you should become immune to -regen debuffs for the IH duration (unless the debuff scales, so say your facing a -1000% regen debuff (/rad wardens and Positron for example) and you have -100% regen debuff resistance, are you debuffed by 500% (1000/2)?, 900% (1000-100)?, or 0% (1000-1000)?
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The suggestion I replied to was that /regen should get the same amount of -regen debuff resistance that WP gets.|
Originally Posted by Arbegla
Eh, if they put a -20% regen debuff resistance into fast healing, and -80% regen debuff resistance into IH (as its Instant Healing, no amount of -regen should negate it, and currently a malta mech looking at you funny floors your regeneration, even with IH running)
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And WP most very certainly does not get -100% regen debuf resistance.
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Willpower gets -20% regen debuff resistance in Fast Healing.|
Originally Posted by Deus_Otiosus
The suggestion I replied to was that /regen should get the same amount of -regen debuff resistance that WP gets.
And WP most very certainly does not get -100% regen debuf resistance. |
Willpower also gets inherent resistance debuff (due to having resistance powers) and defense debuff resistance (though, a small amount)
So, in order to scale regen up to the durability of willpower (as in, being able to sustain about the same debuff) regen should actually have higher regen debuff resistance, which is why i mentioned putting some (say, 80%) into Instant Healing. You'll still have to click it in order to benefit from it, but it'll make IH a very nice power to save your tail when things hit the fan (MoG being used to soak alphas, IH being used for long term survival)
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Originally Posted by Arbegla
Willpower gets -20% regen debuff resistance in Fast Healing.
Willpower also gets inherent resistance debuff (due to having resistance powers) and defense debuff resistance (though, a small amount) |
Its been my experience that the combination of the two things you mention above amount to nil under the majority of Regen debuffs, which are mostly designed to completely floor your regeneration.
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So if it would be ineffective, why oppose it if it would make people happy to get it?
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Originally Posted by Deus_Otiosus
Its been my experience that the combination of the two things you mention above amount to nil under the majority of Regen debuffs, which are mostly designed to completely floor your regeneration.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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Because sometimes I prefer to see the right thing done, rather than just doing something to please people who are clueless? As was said earlier:|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
So if it would be ineffective, why oppose it if it would make people happy to get it?
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
One more thing: Invuln needed a *small* buff to its passives, so it got small buffs. Just because every set has debuff protection, doesn't mean everyone has *high* debuff protection. Without a justification for a massive buff, the best regen can hope for if the devs decide to make this argument go away is to get something like 20% resistance to regen debuffs. If your primary worry is getting hit by massive multi-hundred point regen debuffs that can halt instant healing, 20% resistance to regen debuffs will probably not be impressive. But this argument dies. Worse, the existence of the debuff resistance will mean you lose the ability to make a stronger argument for stronger resistance later. Changes are made when a threshold of requirement is crossed. Adding tiny less productive buffs makes it harder to prove that threshold has been breached.
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Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
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Aside from agreeing with the quote from Arcana that Strato posted, I didn't specifically oppose the idea at any point.|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
So if it would be ineffective, why oppose it if it would make people happy to get it?
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But if you gave me a choice of asking the devs to buff /regen, I would support a Slow/Recharge Debuff Resistance improvement before I support an improvement to Regen Debuff resistance.
K here's my issues....
1. redraw
2. cast times
3. making the buffs hit the instant you click the power
4. higher HP cap for scrappers
ok that should cover other things and not just regen ... 
Personally I'd like to see medium to high levels of regen debuff resist because it's thematic, and for that same reason I'm not so high on the recharge resist.
The more people I meet, the more I'm beginning to root for the zombies.
I for one like the idea that there are "holes" in certain powersets, it makes it a challenge to see what you can do with the oodles and oodles of options we have.
For me, I hadn't played a /Regen since before the MoG changes, and decided to re-roll my first 50, a DM/Regen. I loved how it played up to 50, and once I got it there I had a blast looking at how I could stretch my infl. and build up my defenses.
I try to work on feel, and I know I miss a ton of tricks for uber min/max builds, but with all of the tricks and ways we can pimp out a build, I think its a great challenge to try and put together a build that overcomes the perceived shortcomings of /Regen.
The problem is, /regen is pretty much a 1 trick pony, your HP goes up and down like a yo yo, and if you can keep the ups more then the downs, you win. But, if anything with any form of -regen (your only form of mitigation by the way) so much as looks at you funny, your going to die.
Unless you stack insane levels of defense via IOs or primary (katana and broadsword) you have no other form of mitigation. When compared to any other armor set, they ALL offer ways to resistance their main form of mitigation from failing. And while they do have holes (invuln with psi for example) they aren't usually going to fall to lethal and smashing damage as well, where /regen weakness is basically anything that can out do their regen, and -regen debuffs pretty mean death for even well played regen players.
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The problem is, that's thematic change almost solely for the sake of thematic change. It's not going to help a well-played Regen stay alive except in some relatively exceptional edge cases. Regen debuffs clearly reduce a Regen's survival potential, but they are not frequently the reason I die in practical play.|
Originally Posted by pyrite
Personally I'd like to see medium to high levels of regen debuff resist because it's thematic, and for that same reason I'm not so high on the recharge resist.
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Originally Posted by Arbegla
The problem is, /regen is pretty much a 1 trick pony, your HP goes up and down like a yo yo, and if you can keep the ups more then the downs, you win. But, if anything with any form of -regen (your only form of mitigation by the way) so much as looks at you funny, your going to die.
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This is why I don't want only Regen debuff resistance, and if I could only get one thing, I would want Recharge debuff resistance.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
More than likely it isn't an issue of -recharge resistance screwing people that play /Regen, though. It's whether or not you get the click power off before you faceplant, not necessarily if you have that click power up in time for a fight 1-2 minutes in the future (or so I'd guess, Arcana or someone else more inclined to do the math would know better).
The more prevalent issue with /Regen players is probably too short a timespan between needing to click a power and it being too late to click that power. And it's really only in heightened situations where I'd say that's common place--ramped up level/spawn size settings, etc.
I think a better place to start would be to see Resilience turned into a power that gives a meaningful amount of resistance (worth slotting it for resistance, that is), and have it apply to all damage types. That would help slow the burst damage issue that prevents regen players from having enough time to use one of their several clicks.
Regen and recharge resistance are good, but I find it unlikely regeneration will get them when it's only underperforming, potentially, at the top-end. They're much more likely to care if /regen is hampered in casual play.
Hi everyone, I realized I've been a bit remiss in my duties, but I just wanted to remind everyone of the Stickied "Scrapper Issues List" at the top of the forum. If you look under Regen's section, you will see that the issue of -regen resistances has been on the list of concerns for nearly 2 years now.
I am glad to see people still discussing this stuff so if I may piggy back, I will be working on a new version, compliant with Issue 20 that will be posted in the next week.
P.S. if you have the ability to get either Synapse or Black Scorpion to read your PMs, let me know.
Level 50 is a journey, not a destination.
▲Scrapper Issues List - Going Rogue Edition▲