Conversation Between Marketing Drones

Yeah.

I think something that needs to be pointed out is the Raiding does not automatically equal endgame. The fact that the devs choose to focus on them first was a choice. They could very easily come up with a different system.

The fact that most other games have raids might have been a factor. But by no means is it the only type of endgame you can have. Hopefully once there are enough raids, we'll get some other types in a timely fashion.

There also hasn't been an abundance of threads calling for, I dunno, an option to have characters perma-deleted upon "death". Does this mean we can presume this is a vast, untapped demand in the game?

Since there exist a number of SGs that DO delete characters on death (for example this one) I think we can assume that there is a portion of the player base that enjoys playing that way and would welcome the option of a "hardcore" mode which enforced the "unplayable upon death" option but provided some benefit instead (such as custom titles, special "hardcore-only IOs", or an account wide badge for reaching certain level milestones on a hardcore character).

As I mentioned in the rest of the post you quoted you generally do not see threads asking for changes when the lack of a feature is something that causes most players who want it to either devise a work around or quit the game.

In the case of hardcore mode most advocates of it are perfectly happy to manually delete their characters when they die. They would no doubt welcome a "hardcore mode" but it's not something that is essential to their game play.

The incarnate system as a whole is really made to appeal to a few different types of players (types that are, admittedly, closely related but do not have 100% overlap). It primarily appeals to those groups who want a challenge or want an end-game progression system. The reason you didn't see many threads asking for it is that the former group had found an alternative outlet (soloing team content) and the vocal members of the second group had mostly left.

This sums up the whole situation for me. Thanks Adeon. I do incarnate trials with my 50's when the mood suits me. I don't 'grind' anything, ever.

And to be honest, I am actually glad they are providing an outlet for people that have wanted this type of play. I do not begrudge others their fun at all. My real quibble with the Incarnate system is not that it exists, but that it exists in a vacuum, so to speak. Ideally what I would prefer to see is multiple options for advancing a level 50 through the Incarnate system, including but not limited to:

1) Raiding
2) Soloing
3) Small teams
4) PvP

I would actually prefer the Devs do ALL the above, not just one of them. That way the system would be broad enough to appeal to the biggest group of people possible. What's funny about this is I personally can't stand 2 of the 4 options I listed, but I'd want them to be included just the same, in order to be fair.

Would doing this make it take longer to get the whole system in place? Of course. But in the end I think it would be worth it. There would also be much less division in the community, which is always a good thing. As it stands right now there is one truly valid path through the system, and players that don't like it are feeling pretty left out. That's (IMHO of course) the ultimate reason for all these threads: lack of options. Give people some options and this would all die down in short order.

I agree and I think in a perfect world the devs would probably also like to do all four options. The problem is, as always, time. The devs presumably had a choice between doing one option well, doing a half-***** job on all four or doing a good job on multiple options but neglecting the rest of the game (i.e. releasing solo incarnate arcs in I20 instead of doing Sutter/Mortimer). I hope that in the future they'll branch out a bit and provide more options but at the same time I wouldn't be willing to bet on it. The devs have a limited amount of resources and it seems at the moment they are focusing on two things: end-game raids and non-end-game content.

Actually, I think the I20.5 changes will help a bit with small team content since it will be possible to form an 8-man team to do Lambda and lock it to keep it at eight.

When you stop paying your sub, the company assumes you'll be back when you have the money. When you quit, you fill out why you never want to play again despite still having money left on your sub. It's srz.

Many of those people never bothered to even read the forums, much less make ragequit posts.

I miss the funny. :'(

I miss him too, son... but well... the Funny got bit by a rabid poster... we had to put him down... it was better in the end... he jus' woulda suffered needlessly... his life woulda been a misery to him... he'da been dangerous... to me... to yer ma...

but...

yeah... I miss him too...

It was also usually up on the mmo-media/review rags as one of the criticisms to CoH whenever re-approaching it.

But, mostly, ya, the end-game, and I believe it was also in that survey that came about ~2 years ago.

It's not like anyone here is saying, "Shut up and raid."

What I am saying is that your opinion has been loudly heard by the developers, community reps, and by the community itself. It's been duly noted. Some day, you'll probably get what you want, just not right now. You know it's not coming in Issue 20.5. It's probably not coming in Issue 21. Both of those are pretty much in feature lock-down. Maybe Issue 22 or Issue 23.

It's not like posting yet more threads and hijacking others will make them work faster to please you. You've got to resign yourself to the fact--yes, the fact--that for at least the next six months or so, it ain't going to happen, come hell or high water. (Or that if it does, it was because it was already planned and is not being influenced by anything you're saying at this point.)

In any event, though, we are well past the point of yelling yet some more achieving anything productive. Even if yelling about stuff is the way to get the devs' attention, is that really the precedent we want to set going forward? Personally, I want all of the existing zones to be upgraded to use higher resolution textures and graphics. I've had a couple of golden opportunities to bend the ears of the devs and community reps, and I've taken advantage of them as much as I could. I feel like I've been heard, and thus I don't post much about it or bother people incessantly now. Should I instead start a months-long tirade on how the devs aren't listening to me? How long do we have to put up with more "No more team-only content!!! Solo Incarnate paths!!!" posts? Until Issue 22's or 23's feature lists are released? Longer?

I'm not saying, "Shut up and raid." I'm saying, "Okay, you've been heard. Now how about letting things settle back down to normal?"

"Yeah, we heard you, now shut up" - which, at its heart, is the only response we've heard so far - is never going to get people to actually shut up.

As evidenced by ustream chat's continual requests for more information about bases.

I'm sorry, but you're being entirely unreasonable, and you didn't answer my question. How long do you intend to keep up this tirade? Months? Years?

If so, then this doesn't bode well for the CoH community. One of two things is going to happen:

1) The more likely: Soloable Incarnate paths aren't going to come down the pipeline at least for another year or so, maybe longer, and we have to put up with this endless grousing until either complainers quit over it or moderators start locking thread and putting the smackdown on people, or

2) The less likely: Devs do decide to bump up plans for adding soloable Incarnate paths, at which point the trolls come out of the woodwork and declare open season on the whole damn forums because, hey, it worked for those people griping about raids.

Either way, you are damaging your long-term prospects for being listened to by the devs, not helping it. And I can't help but notice how you continually frame "let things settle back down to normal" as "shut up."

The only post I made unprovoked was "this part made me laugh a lot" (and that part wasn't even talking about raids), so I don't think I'd call it a tirade.

But to answer the question as asked: seventeen more days.

I can only speak for myself, as I haven't discussed this issue in detail in quite this way with anyone else who feels as I do.

I had made my peace with the Incarnate system. I had reconciled myself to the fact that at least for now, I was not going to get what I wanted, but that there was a chance I would get it at some point. I had also stopped posting in or even reading threads about the Incarnate system.

Last week's announcement changed that attitude. I feel that given how hot a topic the endgame is, the new shinies the Devs are sticking behind it are highly inappropriate and are themselves inflammatory. Capes and Auras at level 1 for your alts. Emotes, chest emblems, and some neat looking new auras that thanks to their functionality practically amount to travel power customization. All of those are things I have seen wished for on these boards again and again over the years. Locking them away behind content some of us are determined to avoid is, well, very bad taste in my opinion. So to the forums I went to make my displeasure known. I will admit I should NEVER post at 1:00 AM, nor should I post when my back is acting up and I'm in pain. Those two combined resulted in some very hot posts on my part, which I still regret.

So I think it's not so much a case of people not being willing to be patient. Rather, I think it's that the Incarnate system is a sore spot for some of us and the Devs just keep poking at it with a stick.