Is Assault worth taking?
By
Amy_Amp,
Posted on: 2011-05-31 19:51 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
Short answer: Yes.
Medium short: If you solo and are not damage capped (ie kinetics who can handle large groups) then yes.
If you team and are not a kinetic who is capping the whole team to damage, then absolutely yes.
One example: the difference between katana and broadsword in terms of damage per hit (not per unit time because katana already does more that way) is 27%. Assault alone gets you almost half the way there.
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ok I was trying to get around taking it and for some reason I was thinking it was a 10% buff but now I see it is 15% even still though it seems a bit lacking in that it is about equivalent to a small red right, or is their some other benefit that it provides that I am not seeing? One more thing, looking at it from a solo perspective and not as part of a group where it is stacked multiple times.
well I guess to give a little more background the toon I am looking at it with (who has it now) is plant/storms controller so other than containment I have no way to boost my overall damage via build ups or fulcrum shifts or anything like that except for the ridiculous amounts of skittles that drop from hapless victims of roots/creepers/freezingrain/icestorm.
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It's not always 10 or 15%, just depends on the AT. Most of non buffer ATs get 10.5%, main buffer ATs get 15%, Defenders get 18.8%. So it varies, just check the value on the character you are running. Generally it's a good power, if it's worth it really depends on your build and end costs, but generally yes. If I can fit it in, I often like to go Maneuvers, Assault, Veng, gives me a few good powers, and 2 powers that will take LOTG.
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Originally Posted by Prophetsrage
ok I was trying to get around taking it and for some reason I was thinking it was a 10% buff but now I see it is 15% even still though it seems a bit lacking in that it is about equivalent to a small red right, or is their some other benefit that it provides that I am not seeing? One more thing, looking at it from a solo perspective and not as part of a group where it is stacked multiple times.
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Ancillary powers rarely compare favorably to inspirations. For example, you can combine Maneuvers, Weave and Combat Jumping and still not match a small purple in most cases. Still, you pick up those powers for the convenience of not needing that small purple.|
Originally Posted by Prophetsrage
ok I was trying to get around taking it and for some reason I was thinking it was a 10% buff but now I see it is 15% even still though it seems a bit lacking in that it is about equivalent to a small red right, or is their some other benefit that it provides that I am not seeing? One more thing, looking at it from a solo perspective and not as part of a group where it is stacked multiple times.
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What power would you take instead of Assault that would be worth more to your build than 15% damage? It doesn't necessarily have to be a straight damage-for-damage replacement. You may need a little more defense to softcap or you may want a QOL power for soloing. If you can think of one, then replace it. If not, then Assault is the way to go.
I like Assault. I have it on most of my toons. If I can spare the power, Assault is one of my primary choices for that slot.
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I could easily see taking Maneuvers instead since one might want to focus on adding def to the build. A Plant/storm/ice has a lot of potential for def.
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Originally Posted by Prophetsrage
well I guess to give a little more background the toon I am looking at it with (who has it now) is plant/storms controller so other than containment I have no way to boost my overall damage via build ups or fulcrum shifts or anything like that except for the ridiculous amounts of skittles that drop from hapless victims of roots/creepers/freezingrain/icestorm.
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Yes but only if you have endurance for it. Most of my toons don't take it until they have sets and higher level.
The only AT that I may take it earlier is Defender and maybe Controller.
And I may not take it with my Stalker and Dominator.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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It's why we are given up to three builds. |
Originally Posted by Jibikao
Yes but only if you have endurance for it. Most of my toons don't take it until they have sets and higher level.
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I have a leveling build and I'm working on a IOed out one since I hit 50. There is the Incarnate version waiting there as well as soon as I do enough of the trials for it to matter.
Assault is almost useless for a Blaster. The bonus is a puny 10.5% to your BASE (non-enhanced) damage, and it is suppressed when you are mezzed. The small bonus (just a little better than a Training enhancement) can pretty easily be replicated with IO bonuses later on, and those don't suppress with status changes.
Ideally, the tank will die precisely as everyone else starts fighting, allowing aggro to be spread evenly among the blaster. -seebs, "How to Suck at CoH/CoV" Guide
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I will echo this - with Maneuvers, Combat Jumping, Steamy Mist, Steadfast Protection +Def and with Rock Armour all 3 slotted with Defence SOs you can hit 38% smashing/lethal defence (36% with Scorpion Shield or Ice Shield). |
Originally Posted by Amy_Amp
I could easily see taking Maneuvers instead since one might want to focus on adding def to the build. A Plant/storm/ice has a lot of potential for def.
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On my Grav/Storm I have ~40.5% Smashing Lethal Defence (it would be higher but I don't have a slot Maneuvers properly) and it makes a lot of difference even though I am not soft capped.
If you don't have the slots to go this way (or you wanted to go with a different APP/PPP) then Assault can be one slotted with an Endurance Red. and you are done and you will happily get nice little damage bonus.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
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Is Assault worth it? It depends on (a) what else you can take that may provide more total benefit; (b) whether you have the endurance to run it; and (c) is it a fun power for you to have?
If your Controller is focused on AoE control rather than buffing or damage, then Assault may be skippable. If your build is really tight, then Leadership is skippable. Defenders get a higher bonus than any other Blueside AT, so Defenders should seriously consider adding Leadership. However, I have Leadership on only a few of my controllers . . . they usually have some other power that I feel will provide more benefit in the context of the build. (Part of the reason I don't take Leadership often is the fact that I find Leadership to be kind of boring. Assault, Maneuvers and Tactics are toggles that turn on and then don't visually do anything . . . )
I find that */Storm controllers have so many Endurance issues that I can't run the Leadership toggles. Even with Cardiac in the Alpha slot, my */Storm controllers often have significant drops in the blue bar without Leadership. Freezing Rain has a large 30% Damage Resistance Debuff in addition to its other benefits, so having the endurance to cast Freezing Rain provides more benefit than Assault.
A friend of mine was discussing his Plant/Storm build with me. He was having constant endurance issues even AFTER he got the Cardiac Alpha slot. He eventually came to the same conclusion . . . Leadership was too demanding on endurance to run on a Plant/Storm, so he said he was going to respec it out.
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For me on a plant storm, tactics would be the one I am after, then whether or not I took assault or manuevers would come down to slotting.
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Hmm, my plant storm runs all three leadership toggles without too much difficulty. But then I am very sparing on hurricane and tornado, using them not even every mission. And I only recently picked up a cardiac slot for this character.|
Originally Posted by Local_Man
A friend of mine was discussing his Plant/Storm build with me. He was having constant endurance issues even AFTER he got the Cardiac Alpha slot. He eventually came to the same conclusion . . . Leadership was too demanding on endurance to run on a Plant/Storm, so he said he was going to respec it out.
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Maneuvers has 5xSerendipity (mostly under level 30 as holdovers from levelling), tactics has 6xGaussians, assault has 1x end reduction. And I put a lot of end reduction into my main powers. Don't have inherent fitness, I chose fitness and never respecced, 2 slots in stamina perf shifter proc and end mod, and two in health numina's unique and health (thank you Alignment merits hehe). That's all I've needed. I don't have unlimited endurance, but I get done everything I want to get done while playing.
It's amazing how endurance efficient flytrap + confuse + creepers + thunderstorm are. Just recast now and again and otherwise stand there watching the bad guys die while doing rude emotes at them.
=)
"Hmm, I guess I'm not as omniscient as I thought" -Gavin Runeblade.
I can be found, outside of paragon city here.
Thank you everyone at Paragon and on Virtue. When the lights go out in November, you'll find me on Razor Bunny.
Even at only +10.5% damage ... on a team of 8 players, that's like adding the damage of +1 Player to the entire team (or if you want to be pedantic, +84% of a player). That's not exactly trivial.
If every player on a team is running all three Leadership Toggles, Vengeance is almost a wasted power ... almost ...
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totally off topic but i never knew Katana's damage was -that- much lower than Broadsword's. wow.|
Originally Posted by GavinRuneblade
Medium short: If you solo and are not damage capped (ie kinetics who can handle large groups) then yes.
If you team and are not a kinetic who is capping the whole team to damage, then absolutely yes. One example: the difference between katana and broadsword in terms of damage per hit (not per unit time because katana already does more that way) is 27%. Assault alone gets you almost half the way there. |
But anyway, Assault is a good afterthought power. It's damage boost is nice but only if you didn't sacrifice a potentially good power for it. Giving up, say, Accelerate Metabolism isn't worth it. You also have to remember the endurance cost is fairly high (0.33 compared to most 0.21). Other than that, its great for heroes with few toggles and already have all of their 'core' powers.
Soldiers of Arachnos should really consider picking up assault.
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http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=135484
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Originally Posted by Vel_Overload
Soldiers of Arachnos should really consider picking up assault.
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Considering my only incarnate is a Crab, I have to agree with this statement. SoA's that can spare the endurance should definitely pick up at least a doubled assault.
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Well I was trying to get spirit tree to add to my survivability, but after reading some of the original posts I decided to keep assault and drop frost breathe since the cast time was so long anyway and just make my attack chain roots-roots-roots-roots... then CC/FR/IS/SoC as they become available, so I have assault got spirit tree dropped frost breathe have T4 cardiac and T4 rebirth and still have big endurance issues.
| What power would you take instead of Assault that would be worth more to your build than 15% damage? It doesn't necessarily have to be a straight damage-for-damage replacement. You may need a little more defense to softcap or you may want a QOL power for soloing. If you can think of one, then replace it. If not, then Assault is the way to go. |
Also S/L defense is at 44% so I had no worries there other than it maybe to high.
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I'm not sure it's that simple. Take Energy Blast: at Level 50 Power Blast does 102.6 S/E damage unenhanced. With 3 Damage SOs it's 201. Assault only adds 10.8 points, so it's effectively a ~5% increase overall. If it is off 20% of the time due to status effects, it's only about 8 points. And most Blasters are not near the melee players, so it may not boost their damage at all. Is adding a few damage points to some of your teammates worth the End cost?
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Originally Posted by Redlynne
Even at only +10.5% damage ... on a team of 8 players, that's like adding the damage of +1 Player to the entire team (or if you want to be pedantic, +84% of a player). That's not exactly trivial.
If every player on a team is running all three Leadership Toggles, Vengeance is almost a wasted power ... almost ... |
Ideally, the tank will die precisely as everyone else starts fighting, allowing aggro to be spread evenly among the blaster. -seebs, "How to Suck at CoH/CoV" Guide
Very good info here..
I have to admit I just never bothered looking at the numbers for Assault based on AT. I should have knowing that many powers are different based on which AT is using them. I just really didn't think was in that boat I only though primaries and secondaries were..
I know I have several defense capped toons that I could have added assault on but didn't. Getting an additional 15% damage is nothing to scoff at though across the board on a toon though.
As annoying as it might be to respec I might have to run the numbers and possibly reconsider some of the choices.
1. Why Soft Cap is Important : http://dechskaison.blogspot.com/2011...important.html
2. Limits: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Limits
3. Attack Mechanics: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Attack_Mechanics
4. Rule of Five: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Rule_o...e_Law_of_Fives
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Making 3 builds takes too long. Hell, I barely have time to buy IOs just for one build now. lol
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Originally Posted by Amy_Amp
It's why we are given up to three builds.
I have a leveling build and I'm working on a IOed out one since I hit 50. There is the Incarnate version waiting there as well as soon as I do enough of the trials for it to matter. |
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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Its more then just 15% damage across one toon though. Its across all the toons on the team your on. When leaderships start stacking across a team(e.g. 2-4 assaults/maneuvers) it really highlights that point. On the other hand if you solo most or all of the time Assault isn't all that attractive IMO.
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Originally Posted by plainguy
I know I have several defense capped toons that I could have added assault on but didn't. Getting an additional 15% damage is nothing to scoff at though across the board on a toon though.
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I know a lot of factors could be taken into consideration but in general if the build is tight can assault be overlooked without any real noticeable difference in overall DPS. The mezz resist notwithstanding just looking at the damage buff to endurance cost is it worth it?