MasterMinds (and the Hero version of them)


Adeon Hawkwood

 

Posted

Is there a way, umder options, that the owner of these surogates be able to reduce them in size? Or, as a player, I would like to be able to reduce ALL surogates so I am not having to work around them. I like these toons but I must admit...I understand why some people are resistant to play or play with them. OH...Can you make another option where i choose the surogate avatar...or have it be identical to myself (in look)?


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by rian_frostdrake View Post
but it will be a lot of wok
Oh! You like stir fry?

*Waits for a pan upside the head*



Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.

 

Posted

I would love to see heroic versions of the Masterminds. Call them "Commanders", "Leaders", "Sensi" or whatever. They could even have pets, (Call them followers for Heroes instead of pets) of their own unique flavor. Followers like PPD, Longbow, Wyvern or Mixed Martial Artists. Perhaps we could add some magically themed followers like "Student/Disciple" mages or accolytes. Robots, Mercs and Ninjas could be crossovers to work for both alignments, though the heroic versions should have alternate forms to the villain versions.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Remaugen View Post
I would love to see heroic versions of the Masterminds. Call them "Commanders", "Leaders", "Sensi" or whatever. They could even have pets, (Call them followers for Heroes instead of pets) of their own unique flavor. Followers like PPD, Longbow, Wyvern or Mixed Martial Artists. Perhaps we could add some magically themed followers like "Student/Disciple" mages or accolytes. Robots, Mercs and Ninjas could be crossovers to work for both alignments, though the heroic versions should have alternate forms to the villain versions.
We have Hero MMs... that's what happens when a MM crosses over to... (wait for it)... hero-side!



 

Posted

Personally, I'd love another AT in the same vein as Masterminds that has a damage primary (ranged, assault or melee) and pets as secondary. Where you're the one doing the damage, and the pets buff you rather than the other way around like it is for Masterminds. The three personal attacks in each set could be replaced with debuffs, control, or defensive powers depending on what they decided to make the primary.


[Admin] Emperor Marcus Cole: STOP!
[Admin] Emperor Marcus Cole: WAIT ONE SECOND!
[Admin] Emperor Marcus Cole: WHAT IS A SEAGULL DOING ON MY THRONE!?!?

 

Posted

Heroic Masterminds: because nothing screams heroism like sending lower level people to do the work for you and more than likely die in the process!


Rabbits & Hares:Blue (Mind/Emp Controller)Maroon (Rad/Thermal Corruptor)and one of each AT all at 50
MA Arcs: Apples of Contention - 3184; Zen & Relaxation - 35392; Tears of Leviathan - 121733 | All posts are rated "R" for "R-r-rrrrr, baby!"|Now, and this is very important... do you want a hug? COH Faces @Blue Rabbit

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Rabbit View Post
Heroic Masterminds: because nothing screams heroism like sending lower level people to do the work for you and more than likely die in the process!
LOL !! I was just thinking this myself..


The hard things I can do--- The impossible just take a little bit longer.

If numbers are so much more important than a teammate who is fun to play with, forget about the game altogether and go play with a calculator instead. -Claws and Effect-

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Rabbit View Post
Heroic Masterminds: because nothing screams heroism like sending lower level people to do the work for you and more than likely die in the process!
Isn't that how armed forces the world over function? Or law enforcement?


Weight training: Because you'll never hear someone lament "If only I were weaker, I could have saved them."

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBruteSquad View Post
Isn't that how armed forces the world over function? Or law enforcement?
Be careful with that... I pointed that out a long time ago in another debate over a Hero MM archetype and got my head chewed off like what I said was down right treasonous and unAMERICAN.


Heroic MM concept. Defense primary, Pet/melee secondary.

You're the tank.

Pets are your Support/Damage.

YOU take the heat and they help you. You don't send them in while you stay safe, YOU charge bravely into battle and they follow at a safe distance. "Unheroic" problem solved.


@Oathbound & @Oathbound Too

 

Posted

I'm not american. But I did serve in the armed forces. Even at a squad level (not fair to compare an in game MM to a general, after all - the MM has to be with his troops) in a training exercise it was not the section commander, nor the section 2IC, that were first into a room.

It was that way in GI Joe, though, so I could get behind a defense/minions setup. You'd have to be really careful with the numbers, though, lest it completely outclass Defenders.


Weight training: Because you'll never hear someone lament "If only I were weaker, I could have saved them."

 

Posted

you could have a beast master with bow and arrows as weapon, it doesn't have to be high-tech to work


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Rabbit View Post
Heroic Masterminds: because nothing screams heroism like sending lower level people to do the work for you and more than likely die in the process!
To be fair, no matter what side of the submarine you fall on, you're putting yourself right out there with your henchmen. We don't have any "true" comic-style masterminds playable in this game, mostly because the way it's set up, they wouldn't be very fun to play.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oathbound View Post
Be careful with that... I pointed that out a long time ago in another debate over a Hero MM archetype and got my head chewed off like what I said was down right treasonous and unAMERICAN.


Heroic MM concept. Defense primary, Pet/melee secondary.

You're the tank.

Pets are your Support/Damage.

YOU take the heat and they help you. You don't send them in while you stay safe, YOU charge bravely into battle and they follow at a safe distance. "Unheroic" problem solved.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazarillo View Post
To be fair, no matter what side of the submarine you fall on, you're putting yourself right out there with your henchmen. We don't have any "true" comic-style masterminds playable in this game, mostly because the way it's set up, they wouldn't be very fun to play.

I don't know about you, but what Oathbound suggests actually sounds fun and fits more into the heroic definition. It would just have to be carefully implemented to avoid Tankmages.

As for the submarine, I don't get the reference? In my opinion, we don't get heroic MM in the game because , well, I can't think of any in the comic book universe.


Rabbits & Hares:Blue (Mind/Emp Controller)Maroon (Rad/Thermal Corruptor)and one of each AT all at 50
MA Arcs: Apples of Contention - 3184; Zen & Relaxation - 35392; Tears of Leviathan - 121733 | All posts are rated "R" for "R-r-rrrrr, baby!"|Now, and this is very important... do you want a hug? COH Faces @Blue Rabbit

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazarillo View Post
To be fair, no matter what side of the submarine you fall on, you're putting yourself right out there with your henchmen. We don't have any "true" comic-style masterminds playable in this game, mostly because the way it's set up, they wouldn't be very fun to play.
Actually, we do. Technically speaking.

YOU, yes you behind the monitor, are the mastermind. The mastermind character is one of your top agents and his crew.


Weight training: Because you'll never hear someone lament "If only I were weaker, I could have saved them."

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Rabbit View Post
As for the submarine, I don't get the reference?
Rogues and Vigilantes can transfer between Paragon City and the Rogue Isles via a submarine operated by Submariner Janus, located in Sharkhead Isle and Independence Port.

IIRC, at once point during beta it was the only way to change sides, you couldn't switch using Co-op zones. And so when you switched sides, you got the 'Submariner' badge.


http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Remaugen View Post
Robots, Mercs and Ninjas could be crossovers to work for both alignments, though the heroic versions should have alternate forms to the villain versions.
Honestly there's nothing wrong with Heroic Necromancers and Demon Summoners either.

The moral objection to Necromancy in most cultures is mainly because it involves desecrating the remains of the deceased. There are multiple ways for a heroic character to get around that (the simplest being that the deceased he controls came back willingly to help him).

Similarly the moral problem with summoning Demon is that they are generally portrayed as being always chaotic evil. A Heroic Mastermind could easily be working with a team of heroic demons. Or even take the vigilante route of summoning evil demons and forcing them to do good.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood View Post
Similarly the moral problem with summoning Demon is that they are generally portrayed as being always chaotic evil. A Heroic Mastermind could easily be working with a team of heroic demons. Or even take the vigilante route of summoning evil demons and forcing them to do good.
Or simply look to an existing signature hero who already uses demons: Infernal.


http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Rabbit View Post
In my opinion, we don't get heroic MM in the game because , well, I can't think of any in the comic book universe.
Nick Fury?
Commissioner Gordon?
Professor X?


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazarillo View Post
Nick Fury?
Commissioner Gordon?
Professor X?
People always argue that those are Supergroup leaders, not Masterminds.


@Oathbound & @Oathbound Too

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oathbound View Post
People always argue that those (edit: Col. Fury, Prof X, Com. Gordon, and left out The Chief from Doom Patrol) are Supergroup leaders, not Masterminds.
Shield is not an SG since most of the people in it are not supers.

There were 5 original X-Men, and 4 original Doom Patrol. MM's get 6 henchmen. What defines an SG?

In this game SG Leaders fight along side their SG, so I'm comfortable saying the definition of an SG doesn't matter anyway. This is just an illogical argument from people who don't want MMs as Heroes.


Check out the Repeat Offenders network of SGs! You'll be glad you did.

 

Posted

As I rack my brain trying to think of heroic mastermind concepts, the ones I come up with are not ones that are comics, per se. The various Pokemon trainers are essentially a sort of mastermind. The Power Rangers, or at least the early season that I remember, without the Giant Mecha aspect would seem to me very much MM-like, since they typically all had similar powers, but different weapons.

The main character from the SNES game Robotrek might qualify as a Mastermind, since he did zero fighting and just built and buffed his robot minions.

If we had a mastermind set where the pets merged into one giant Mega-Pet as a possible power that would likely open up the heroic concept more, since that's something you see in a lot of shows. Voltron, Power Rangers, the gestalts from Transformers.

I wanted to say The Darkness might qualify, but I'm not familiar with much more than the general concepts, and I don't think he'd qualify as a Hero.

Dar from The Beastmaster and Squirrel Girl (AN ACTUAL COMIC EXAMPLE!) might work if we had an animal based MM set.

Pretty much I keep coming up with any group of individuals that team up that sport similar power/abilities might work as MM concepts if we had costume customization options. Pro wrestling stables (like DX or the nWo), your typical cast of RPG heroes/heroines, Power Rangers/Sailor Moon-like teams, and pretty much anything else that follows a formula of a group that works together more often than alone to fight their foes or something similar.

My diseased brain is saying that GWAR and KISS and other themed metal bands with three letter acronym/allcaps names might count.


Quote:
Originally Posted by reiella View Post
Until I see something that states to the contrary, going to assume VK is right .

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Atilla_The_Pun View Post
Shield is not an SG since most of the people in it are not supers.

There were 5 original X-Men, and 4 original Doom Patrol. MM's get 6 henchmen. What defines an SG?

In this game SG Leaders fight along side their SG, so I'm comfortable saying the definition of an SG doesn't matter anyway. This is just an illogical argument from people who don't want MMs as Heroes.
I agree that it's a vague and rather silly distinction to make.

If I had to hazard a guess it's that a SG Leader guides his subordinates towards an action, but that subordinate is free to go off and do it his way, or not do it at all instead. That there may be repercussions for the subordinates actions is unimportant, it's only important that the subordinate has the ability to chose not to do what the SG leader says.

A MM tells their minions what to do, and the minions do it. Period. I don't agree with that though, a Comic Book Mastermind's minions are easily able to ignore the MM's orders and go about his own business as he sees fit. (With the exception of those that are directly mind controlled, which None of the in-game minions are stated to be. (Player Character concept is irrelevant in this regard as You* are the one making the distinction here, not the game.))



*Nebulous "you" not specific "You."


@Oathbound & @Oathbound Too

 

Posted

The difference I see between Heroic and Villain Masterminds is really a matter of attitude. For the Villainous Mastermind his Henchmen are disposable minions solely there to further his own aims. Conversely for the Heroic Mastermind his Henchmen are valued team members. Maybe he doesn't fight on the front line with them but that's because he knows that his skills lie elsewhere. He supports them and if they are seriously injured he patches them up. Thematically the Mastermind summon powers could represent healing a fallen henchmen just as easily as it can represent recruiting a replacement.

Even the minion sacrifice powers (such as Detonator) can just as easily represent the henchman choosing to make a heroic sacrifice as it can the mastermind choosing to kill him.

At the end of the day the important thing is choice. Henchmen serve a Mastermind for whatever reason, for a Heroic Mastermind who's to say his henchmen don't work with him because they believe in what he is doing and want to be hero themselves. As an example I remember seeing a heroic Thugs MM who's backstory was that he was a reformed gang leader working with other gang members to clean up his 'hood.