Reactive and breaking sleep
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2011-05-28 20:37 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
It has been mentioned, and I believe is considered WAI. Since Mesmerize is a (pretty good) damaging power, it picks up the Interface procs. If you want the bonus damage, you'll have to give up the sleep from Mesmerize, if you want the sleep, you'll need to pick a different Interface.
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Originally Posted by Back Alley Brawler
Did you just use "casual gamer" and "purpled-out warshade" in the same sentence?
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Sucks for Siren's Song and Flash Freeze as well. And the damage of those is weak.
At least Flash Freeze sucks to begin with, anyway.
Simplest possible solution is to recode the Reactive procs to suppress the damage component if the target is asleep. That way, Reactive Interface does not "pre-empt" Sleep Status and effectively "respects" that damage, even if procced, will break Sleep.
Note that some Sleep Powers (such as Mesmerize) which have a damage component in them, do damage "instantly" and then apply Sleep after a short (0.25 second) delay, so as to not have the damage break the Sleep. A similar design plan for Reactive Interface, with a Suppress Damage When Target Is Asleep would be the simplest and most effective solution for the widest possible range of powers and effects.
It's the end. But the moment has been prepared for ...
A simpler solution would be: if you want your enemy to fall asleep, stop lighting them on fire.
@Roderick
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+Like!|
Originally Posted by Roderick
A simpler solution would be: if you want your enemy to fall asleep, stop lighting them on fire.
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I mean, i guess it kinda sucks... Mesmerize is a key power and now you're forced to trade-off between a little more damage or the control you're already supposed to have. This kind of trade-off doesn't seem to exist with any other power types, so maybe the devs SHOULD look into it? I dunno.
-STEELE =)
Allied to all sides so that no matter what, I'll come out on top!
Oh, and Crimson demands you play this arc-> Twisted Knives (MA Arc #397769)
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Fixed it for you.|
Originally Posted by Roderick
A simpler solution would be: if you want your enemy to fall asleep, stop doing damage to them.
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Good thing dealing damage isn't a central pillar of game play and character advancement around these parts.
It's the end. But the moment has been prepared for ...
Couldnt they just remove the dmg from these powers? In fact when it mentions "most damaging attacks" i actually thought that meant it didn't work in stuff like dmging sleep powers.
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-Al Gore
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@Caucasiafro
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Are you saying no one gets use out of sleep powers ever?|
Originally Posted by Redlynne
Fixed it for you.
Good thing dealing damage isn't a central pillar of game play and character advancement around these parts. |
Sure seems like it.
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Dear playerbase,
Reactive isn't the only option like you treat it as such.
Sincerely,
The Devs.
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And, even if it was, you could easily stop at Total Core for Reactive (75% chance for the debuff, no DOT).
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Originally Posted by Amy_Amp
Dear playerbase,
Reactive isn't the only option like you treat it as such. Sincerely, The Devs. |
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Kind of snarky, but it's a good point. |
Originally Posted by Amy_Amp
Dear playerbase,
Reactive isn't the only option like you treat it as such. Sincerely, The Devs. |
Reactive is not the ONLY Interface slot there is. There are 3 other trees, and another option in Reactive that lacks the DoT portion (it turns the -resistance into a 100% chance).
Basically, you CHOSE to put Reactive in your Interface slot, presumably knowing what effect a DoT would have on your sleep powers.
Thus, you are presented with a choice 1) Keep your DoT and lose the benefit of sleep powers, or 2) pick a different Interface and keep the sleeps useful.
There are what, 4-5 sleep powers in the game that deal damage? Why should only those few powers be exempt from something that is supposed to affect all of your powers equally?
And for the record, I'm pretty sure that by "most damaging powers" they mean that temp powers and vet reward powers don't trigger it, but any power within a primary, secondary, or power pool will.
It affects me as well, I have a Sonic/Devices blaster that makes frequent use of Siren's Song. I'm forced to choose between the sleep and the DoT just like anyone else. I haven't gotten Interface unlocked yet on him, but I can tell you what I'm NOT going to do: Come to the forums to complain and expect the devs to make a change because I don't get to have my sleep powers and extra damage at the same time. Because that would be having my cake and eating it too.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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C'mon Dechs, you know better than that.|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
Are you saying no one gets use out of sleep powers ever?
Sure seems like it. |
Here's your bait (back) by the way ... it smells a bit.
It's the end. But the moment has been prepared for ...
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Not sure how many of my guys I'm going to incarnate, but Reactive to me is just another option. I also don't feel like going outside of concept even if that means taking the less uber option. I know the boards are home of the min/maxers, but sometimes I have to remind myself there are other options based on how much Reactive is talked about.
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Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
Kind of snarky, but it's a good point.
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What they meant is that Reactive works with all powers from your Primary, Secondary, Epic, and Pools that do damage. It does not work with powers from those sources that don't do damage, nor does it work with Temporary, Inherent, or Accolade powers that do damage.
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Originally Posted by ultrawatt
Couldnt they just remove the dmg from these powers? In fact when it mentions "most damaging attacks" i actually thought that meant it didn't work in stuff like dmging sleep powers.
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@Roderick
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I think this is a valid point. A specific Incarnate power is actually decreasing the effectiveness of some of your existing powers which, in general seems like a bad idea.|
Originally Posted by EmperorSteele
I mean, i guess it kinda sucks... Mesmerize is a key power and now you're forced to trade-off between a little more damage or the control you're already supposed to have. This kind of trade-off doesn't seem to exist with any other power types, so maybe the devs SHOULD look into it? I dunno.
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However, I do not think this is something the devs should fix. The problem is they can't please everyone. If they changed it so that reactive (specifically) does not work in sleeps we'll get people complaining that reactive does not work in sleeps.
Given that we'll get people complaining no matter what I'm inclined to say go with the option that requires the least programming time
.
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No it isn't. It is, however, the best Interface by a large margin in most situations, both solo and teamed.|
Originally Posted by Amy_Amp
Dear playerbase,
Reactive isn't the only option like you treat it as such. Sincerely, The Devs. |
Solo Reactive interface provides a very large damage boost. Teamed the relative damage boost is smaller but it's still more useful than debuffs since most teams do not need the other reactive debuffs against normal enemies and AVs resist debuffs to much for them to be useful there.
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Then this becomes a simple matter of grabbing multiple Interfaces.|
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
No it isn't. It is, however, the best Interface by a large margin in most situations, both solo and teamed.
Solo Reactive interface provides a very large damage boost. Teamed the relative damage boost is smaller but it's still more useful than debuffs since most teams do not need the other reactive debuffs against normal enemies and AVs resist debuffs to much for them to be useful there. |
When solo, grab one that doesn't interrupt the sleep powers, and when teamed when sleep becomes less of a helpful thing, use the reactive that you think you must have.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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Or more broadly, the fix would most likely be that no interface abilities work in sleep.|
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
I think this is a valid point. A specific Incarnate power is actually decreasing the effectiveness of some of your existing powers which, in general seems like a bad idea.
However, I do not think this is something the devs should fix. The problem is they can't please everyone. If they changed it so that reactive (specifically) does not work in sleeps we'll get people complaining that reactive does not work in sleeps. Given that we'll get people complaining no matter what I'm inclined to say go with the option that requires the least programming time . |
Of course, given that most people don't think much of the other interface abilities, who is to say that wouldn't be preferable.
Let's Dance!
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What's more useful? Seven people with a Reactive Interface that doesn't do anything, because one or two people can easily stack it to the cap in next to no time, or a team with one or two people with each Interface, even if some of the debuffs are heavily resisted?
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Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
Teamed the relative damage boost is smaller but it's still more useful than debuffs since most teams do not need the other reactive debuffs against normal enemies and AVs resist debuffs to much for them to be useful there.
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@Roderick
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I'd rather they just work with Sleep powers, and people can make the choice...turn sleep powers into powers that have no real sleep effect, or pick a different interface.|
Originally Posted by reiella
Or more broadly, the fix would most likely be that no interface abilities work in sleep.
Of course, given that most people don't think much of the other interface abilities, who is to say that wouldn't be preferable. |
I fully admit I prefere Reactive, but really, there's multiple choices. If people want their sleep abilities, pick one that doesn't wake the enemies up, it's that simple.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
The fundamental problem is that the other Interface powers are not nearly as good as Reactive.
Personally, I'd like to see Interface effects extend to buffs and debuffs as it stands, Interface extends the divide between damage and support classes. (Though I guess blasters need all the help they can get!)
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Last I heard was that any power that accepts damage enhancement will be affected by Interface.|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
And for the record, I'm pretty sure that by "most damaging powers" they mean that temp powers and vet reward powers don't trigger it, but any power within a primary, secondary, or power pool will.
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Originally Posted by Redlynne
C'mon Dechs, you know better than that.
Here's your bait (back) by the way ... it smells a bit. |
1) Expect snark to be met by snark. You should know better than that.
2) If sleeps are invalidated by damage, the core part of the game as you put it, they are already invalidated. Interface doesn't change anything.
Anyone that wants to do more damage but keep your sleep powers, I suggest you go with core reactive and stay at T3 for the -resistance procs. No DoTs to mess up your sleeps.
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Originally Posted by halfflat
The fundamental problem is that the other Interface powers are not nearly as good as Reactive.
Personally, I'd like to see Interface effects extend to buffs and debuffs — as it stands, Interface extends the divide between damage and support classes. (Though I guess blasters need all the help they can get!) |
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
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Mesmerize does not appear anywhere that Confuse isn't available. If you can't handle the mob waking up, Confuse it first. Viola, no loss of "the control you're already supposed to have" at all. If you want the extra damage you wouldn't care about the mob waking up since presumably you're trying to do more damage which would wake them up anyway. The problem with Reactive and (specifically) Mesmerize is between the keyboard and chair.|
Originally Posted by EmperorSteele
I mean, i guess it kinda sucks... Mesmerize is a key power and now you're forced to trade-off between a little more damage or the control you're already supposed to have. This kind of trade-off doesn't seem to exist with any other power types, so maybe the devs SHOULD look into it? I dunno.
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The AoE sleeps that deal damage have issues, but I for one actually use Siren's Song as a damage power (Sonic/Cold, Sleet wakes them all up anyway) and Flash Freeze should've had the damage removed years ago. For the limited number of affected powers, I have to echo others in the thread - there are other choices and you can swap them around. Deal with either less damage or less control.
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Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.
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Originally Posted by Brillig
It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.
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Mesmerize can be used to sleep AVs in a clutch.|
Originally Posted by Siolfir
Mesmerize does not appear anywhere that Confuse isn't available. If you can't handle the mob waking up, Confuse it first. Viola, no loss of "the control you're already supposed to have" at all. If you want the extra damage you wouldn't care about the mob waking up since presumably you're trying to do more damage which would wake them up anyway. The problem with Reactive and (specifically) Mesmerize is between the keyboard and chair.
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Confuse has to be stacked 20 times.
Just sayin'.
Like for me, I make sure my enemies are held first, so the DoT wouldn't matter in most situations. However, there are some circumstances where an AV is coming at ya and the team isn't ready for it. With a click of one button, they're harmless.
But what's this, oh no, the damage proc goes off and now i can't sleep them for like 10 seconds!
This is the entire reason I took the debuff-side and why I refuse to go Very Rare. I don't want to give up my AV-sleeping ability, the ability which makes Mesmerize itself one of the most powerful abilities in the game, IMO.
-STEELE =)
Allied to all sides so that no matter what, I'll come out on top!
Oh, and Crimson demands you play this arc-> Twisted Knives (MA Arc #397769)
Hi all,
The fire damage from the Reactive ability in the Interface slot breaks the sleep in mesmerize. Has this been mentioned to the dev's; is this being looked at? Is there a way to suggest something to the dev's about this issue?
Thank you kindly.
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