Doctor Who - 28th May - The Almost People
By
ArcticFahx,
Posted on: 2011-05-28 11:37 in Comic and Hero-Villain Culture
I'm pretty sure the only one that changed was Tom Baker's line.
IMDB got the ending to series 2 right when a lot of people doubted them. If they're right this time too, the cast list for October's finale episode is a SERIOUS 'squee!'
Matt Smith as 'The Doctor'
Karen Gillan as 'Amy'
Arthur Darville as 'Rory'
with...
David Tennant as 'The Doctor'
AND...
Peter Davison as 'The Doctor'.
'You lose more of your femininity every day Doroe. It's very appealing.' - SLEDGEHAMMER!
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I've seen a lot of other websites say it was David Tennant's voice saying "I'm the Doctor" a bit after the Tom Baker dub line. I'll have to listen closely on next viewing of the episode.
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Originally Posted by Zikar
I'm pretty sure the only one that changed was Tom Baker's line.
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I call bull!
I can't see Tennant coming back this quickly, especially after his farewell and Moffet trying to forge his own style in the show.
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Just listened to it on iPlayer, you are correct.
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Originally Posted by Shagster
I've seen a lot of other websites say it was David Tennant's voice saying "I'm the Doctor" a bit after the Tom Baker dub line. I'll have to listen closely on next viewing of the episode.
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I would tend to agree. It wouldn't seem to make sense to have Ten back so soon, relatively speaking. If I were in Moffat's shoes, I'd be saving that kind of thing for the big up-coming anniversary in 2013.|
Originally Posted by Zikar
I call bull!
I can't see Tennant coming back this quickly, especially after his farewell and Moffet trying to forge his own style in the show. |
Maybe Tennant and Davison will appear in re-used footage on a monitor somewhere? Or in a recording? Perhaps a more extended version of how shots of previous regenerations were used in the Atraxi images. Could Moffat feels the need to tie some of the events with this child to previous history of the mythos in some way?
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If I had to place it, I'd say it's from Voyage of the Damned, when the Doctor makes his "I'm The Doctor, I'm a Time Lord, I'm 903 years old" speech, but I could be mistaken.
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Originally Posted by Shagster
I've seen a lot of other websites say it was David Tennant's voice saying "I'm the Doctor" a bit after the Tom Baker dub line. I'll have to listen closely on next viewing of the episode.
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Spoilers-----|
Originally Posted by Tenzhi
It could even have happened before episode 1.
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I think its safe to say it was either during episode 1 or between episode 1 and 2.
A few thoughts,
I'm thinking she was sentiant Flesh thinking she was real, the alternative is that the real Amy was operating Flesh across Time and Space, which would take timelord level tech( of course Eye Patch Lady could be the Rani.
Regardless, it is a lot effort to expend to just get a normal human baby, unless of course, there should be a warning on the TARDIS with regards to long term effects on humans( wouldn't it be interesting if it turned out, long term exposure meant all of the Doctor's former human companions had a chance of having time sensitive children)
Another thought, I wonder if the Doctor was tempted to drop off Rory and Flesh Amy somewhere and then go off and search for the real one.
I'm pretty sure now, River = Amy's daughter now
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It seemed pretty apparent that the real Amy was linked to the Flesh Amy. What with the visions of the eyepatch lady, the shared birthing pains, the Doctor tellng her to breathe and "Push, but only when she tells you to", and the Doctor mentioning he had to figure out how to sever the link.
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Originally Posted by Wooden_Replica
A few thoughts,
I'm thinking she was sentiant Flesh thinking she was real, the alternative is that the real Amy was operating Flesh across Time and Space, which would take timelord level tech( of course Eye Patch Lady could be the Rani. |
Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
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Originally Posted by Shagster
I would tend to agree. It wouldn't seem to make sense to have Ten back so soon, relatively speaking. If I were in Moffat's shoes, I'd be saving that kind of thing for the big up-coming anniversary in 2013.
Maybe Tennant and Davison will appear in re-used footage on a monitor somewhere? Or in a recording? Perhaps a more extended version of how shots of previous regenerations were used in the Atraxi images. Could Moffat feels the need to tie some of the events with this child to previous history of the mythos in some way? |
Well, we currently have 8 of the 11 Doctors alive and well, probably 5 or 6 of whom are probably able to carry off the role with a bit of prep time (Colin Baker would probably have to drop an extreme amount of weight, Tom Baker's rather obviously aged, unsure if we could get Eccleston or McGann back, etc).
Still the potential for an hour or three chock full of scene-chewing Doctor'y goodness would just put the Awe in Awesome.
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Apart from <Fleshdoc> uploading himself into the sonic screwdriver. |
Originally Posted by welshman_EU
Ok. To put the line in my last post into context...
<Fleshdoc> Looks like my death is upon me. <DocDoc> And this one we're not invited to. So I'd say he's figured it out, wouldn't you? |
I really should do something about this signature.
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I think it was Matt Smith ("call me Smith" - LOL) doing an impersonation.|
Originally Posted by Tenzhi
Decent episode. Great ending.
Also: "Reverse the jelly baby of the neutron flow" Also, also: Did I hear right? When he said "would you like a jelly baby?" were they dubbing in Tom Baker's voice from the old series? |
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| I didn't notice that it ever got scary. When did that supposedly happen? |
I really should do something about this signature.
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It was clearly between Amy telling the Doc "I'm pregnent" at the end of Ep 1 and her first encounter with Eyepatch in Arkham Asylum.|
Originally Posted by The Hound
Totally wasn't expecting that at the end. Though that does open another question.
SPOILERS How long exactly has Amy been in that room with Eyepatch checking up on her? Many people would probably say that the Silence took her there but we saw Amy have an encounter with the woman just before the Silence kidnapped her. |
Most likely immeditely after the end of episode 1. I wouldn't be surprised if a future episode takes place in the 3 months between 1 and 2.
As for who, the whole flesh thing is Silence modus operandi: Get the parasatised organism to develop the technology that you need. They appear to have the time travel technology that would be required, to travel into the future to get the flesh, then back to C1960, perhaps as a result of previously having parasatised Galifrey.
We know how the Doctor is going to survive being killed now, anyway. Always back up your hard drive.
I really should do something about this signature.
On the question as to the voice during the beginning of the ep with the flesh-doc getting used to the regenerations, Confidential confirmed it was the Tom Baker voice (they even showed the clip they took it from) and that it was quotations of the first and third docs (discussions about how Jon Pertwee only used the reversing the polarity bit once and was often quoted by the fandom for years afterwards), but absolutely no mention of David Tennants voice being used, so I'm inclined to think it wasn't his voice, just matt Smith sounding like him
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Once again the Doctor is playing chess against the universe, and as always he is at least 5 moves ahead..
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I was shocked by the ending but probably not the way you are thinking.
The entire premise of the two episodes was that the gangers were people too. They had all the same memories and feelings and were every bit as real a person as the originals. It was stressed again and again how much they suffered when they were casually discarded and that they could remember being dissolved and suffering. There were even the eyes that survived that seemingly had some form of sentience.
Then the doctor informs them that just traveling in the tardis has stabilized their bodies so they are now truly human.
And then he casually dissolves the ganger Amy just because she isn't the real deal. Which means that all of his preaching and such trying to get the others to accept the gangers as real people was him lying and stalling for time in order to get the readings he needed. That he didn't consider the gangers to be real people but just a tool. Exactly the same way that the prejudiced humans considered them to be.
Yes I know it was actually just poor writing (and directing) but since it is an episode it is canon. Which either means that the gangers aren't real feeling people after all or else The Doctor can and has casually killed somebody just because they were inconvenient to him.
Don't count your weasels before they pop dink!
I think it is more plain bad explaining. The gangers became human because they could be alive, awake and thinking AT THE SAME TIME AS THEIR HUMAN COUNTERPARTS. They gained this by accident. Amy, however, did not have this ability so, as long as Ganger Amy was around, RealAmy could never wake up. Thus the Doctor could not afford to think of her as real because it meant Amy was being kept prisoner somewhere. Now he can find her.
'You lose more of your femininity every day Doroe. It's very appealing.' - SLEDGEHAMMER!
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The difference is that Flesh-Amy didn't have an independent consciousness, that body was still being remote-operated by Real-Amy.|
Originally Posted by Mandu
And then he casually dissolves the ganger Amy just because she isn't the real deal. Which means that all of his preaching and such trying to get the others to accept the gangers as real people was him lying and stalling for time in order to get the readings he needed. That he didn't consider the gangers to be real people but just a tool. Exactly the same way that the prejudiced humans considered them to be.
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No mind was destroyed, so no killing was done.
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Also, Flesh-Amy wasn't the same as the other Flesh, it was a much more advanced version of the technology (probably with the whole conciousness problem removed).
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Originally Posted by Shagster
The difference is that Flesh-Amy didn't have an independent consciousness, that body was still being remote-operated by Real-Amy.
No mind was destroyed, so no killing was done. |
Always remember, we were Heroes.
And yet supposedly all the remotely operated gangers that had been dissolved in the past did have awareness. The conscious ones spoke about how they remembered being casually discarded and destroyed in the past.
Again, the conscious ones created by the accident remembered past versions of themselves being operated and then destroyed. In fact the conference they were going into when The Doctor dropped them off was where they were going to explain that remotely operated flesh had awareness. If it had just been the power surge that caused the awareness then they would have just been going in to ask for redundant emergency breakers installed.
Now if at some point they explain that it was a more advanced version of flesh with the consciousness problem removed then I'll be perfectly willing to accept that. Until then any arguments to the contrary are based purely on speculation and refusal to accept that The Doctor would casually kill somebody. Of course my argument is pure speculation as well but I'm basing it on what actually happened in the episodes.
Don't count your weasels before they pop dink!
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But the trick here is that the Flesh Amy was being controlled by the Real Amy ACROSS time and space( and beyond really if you consider the pocket universe in Doctor's Wife episode), I'm pretty sure thats beyond the standard specs for anyone who doesn't have time travel tech, of course it could be something they don't explain, or the eye patch lady could be the Rani.|
Originally Posted by Dr_Darkspeed
Also, Flesh-Amy wasn't the same as the other Flesh, it was a much more advanced version of the technology (probably with the whole conciousness problem removed).
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The question is, why Amy? or her daughter at least?
I'm pretty sure we no have an out for the Doctor's death, it could easily be a Doctor controlled Ganger staging his death for some reason, which would also explain the deal with burning the body to get rid of any evidence
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I have to nitpick here and remind you that it was explicitly stated multiple times in the series that it was vital to cremate deceased Time Lords, on a pyre so they are truly immolated, because even a single substantial bit of them could conceivably make some very horrible people very powerful. Imagine the Daleks managing to add Gallifreyan regeneration to themselves, as just a small example.
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Originally Posted by Wooden_Replica
which would also explain the deal with burning the body to get rid of any evidence
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Originally Posted by Back Alley Brawler
Did you just use "casual gamer" and "purpled-out warshade" in the same sentence?
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Just saw this episode and it was a pretty good episode Much better than I thought it'd be to be honest.
Although I will say, that again, there were quite a few lines I couldn't hear what they were saying....so annoying. 
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