Put a timer on warnings on BAF trial please.
By
Carnifax_NA,
Posted on: 2011-05-25 22:11 in Suggestions and Ideas
1) Don't aggro both Nightstar and Siege.
2) If you are going to aggro both Nightstar and Siege, then understand that a level 1 warning is sufficiently dangerous and act accordingly.
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So when both of them are right on top of each other use only my single target damage attacks and turn off my taunt/damage aura and don't taunt as a tank or brute. Yea that is a great solution.
Learning how to share aggro between different people is part of the challenge of the trial.
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Originally Posted by FredrikSvanberg
Learning how to share aggro between different people is part of the challenge of the trial.
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Agreed, if you want to get them side by side so peoples AOEs will affect both of them you also have to accept the downsides of that decision and those self-same AOEs. It's not like they spawn side by side, you have to actively work to get them into that position.
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Other than getting the Keep Em Seperated badge, have you ever been on a team where the goal was to keep the 2 AVs on, say, different sides of the tennis courts? All I am asking for is for the 2nd warning to be an actual warning and allow you time to react. Is that something that is really that unreasonable?
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Originally Posted by Carnifax_NA
Agreed, if you want to get them side by side so peoples AOEs will affect both of them you also have to accept the downsides of that decision and those self-same AOEs. It's not like they spawn side by side, you have to actively work to get them into that position.
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Well why are you tanking the both of them at once?
BAF requires a minimum of 16 people, of the other 15 that are there your telling me not a single one of them is a Brute or a Tanker?
Letting a secondary tank grab the agro of the other AV will easily solve your problem.
Also saying Held after you do get sequestered will let the rest of the League know what happened so they can act accordingly.
IMO the larger part of the problem is not seeing the sequestered message in the first place....that shows up in it's pale white color mixed in with all the other on screen action.
I would hoped that they would have changed the color of it by now to stand out better.
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I've had that happen to me more than a couple times. |
Originally Posted by DMystic
Well why are you tanking the both of them at once?
BAF requires a minimum of 16 people, of the other 15 that are there your telling me not a single one of them is a Brute or a Tanker? Letting a secondary tank grab the agro of the other AV will easily solve your problem. Also saying Held after you do get sequestered will let the rest of the League know what happened so they can act accordingly. |
Small BAF with no one else to take aggro. I'm a Tanker and there's was no one that can or will take aggro from me. I retreat, get sequestered, return to combat, swing my axe twice, and have to retreat again because I'm back at two warnings (and then I get sequestered because still no one takes the aggro). No exaggeration, two attacks (axe). I might even have the logs from that one and it's not the only time that's happened.
Initially I thought the sequestering was kind of cool because it made people play aggro games. Now I just see it as a lame process that keeps one AT from being able to do its job during that AV battle.
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He isn't "actively" doing so - you don't have to actively 'tank' both at once. You just have to be near both at once and have AoEs and/or a Taunt Aura. I've had both AVs pop me one after the other on my Brute and I wasn't even trying to be the Taunt Bot for one of them, much less both...|
Originally Posted by DMystic
Well why are you tanking the both of them at once?
BAF requires a minimum of 16 people, of the other 15 that are there your telling me not a single one of them is a Brute or a Tanker? Letting a secondary tank grab the agro of the other AV will easily solve your problem. Also saying Held after you do get sequestered will let the rest of the League know what happened so they can act accordingly. |
Still, it's really not that big a problem - something that's actually challenging in an already easy game.
/unsigned
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Sometimes, the AVs just wanna kill ya. Back off, move to ranged attacks or fight the ambushes. If no one in the League is making an effort to support you, then that can be their problem.
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Originally Posted by Dromio
Small BAF with no one else to take aggro. I'm a Tanker and there's was no one that can or will take aggro from me. I retreat, get sequestered, return to combat, swing my axe twice, and have to retreat again because I'm back at two warnings (and then I get sequestered because still no one takes the aggro). No exaggeration, two attacks (axe). I might even have the logs from that one and it's not the only time that's happened.
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I am not attempting to tank both AVs at once. With both standing next to each other, I attack one on my brute with aoe attacks (just like most of the other 15+ people including tanks and other brutes) and get aggro from both. My attack chain is footstomp, burn, fireball with maybe a KO blow tossed out there as well. I do not view be less efficent at dealing damage as a viable option.
On the times when I am on a toon with taunt and both are next to each other, I taunt when I see someone else with 2 rings that wont get out of the way. Since taunt is an AOE power poof.... warning 2.. held 2 seconds later. Since I cannot control others not taunting when they should and not getting out of the way when they should, I am just asking for a warning to be a warning with time to react.
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I don't know where you are getting your information from, but it is clearly wrong:|
Originally Posted by DMystic
BAF requires a minimum of 16 people, of the other 15 that are there your telling me not a single one of them is a Brute or a Tanker?
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For the Behavioral Adjustment Facility (B.A.F.)the Minimum Launch Threshold is 12, and the Maximum Players is 24. For Lambda the Minimum Launch Threshold is 8, and the Maximum Players is 16. |
http://www.cityofheroes.com/news/patch_notes/issue_20_launch_patch_notes.html
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Originally Posted by FredrikSvanberg
Learning how to share aggro between different people is part of the challenge of the trial.
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It's happened to me on several occasions. Annoying? Yes.
Usually occurs when the other tanks/brutes arent doing their jobs. I've also been held AFTER backing off from the AV well out of aggro range. Again, it's other tanks/brutes making no attempt to get aggro away from me.
Usually, when I see another tank getting his first warning, I'll start throwing taunts to ensure he doesnt get the next. Unfortunately, you see too many tanks/brutes going into scrapperlock/dps mode. Sharing aggro is not on their minds.
Would I like a timer as proposed by the OP? Wouldnt hurt. But it isnt happening. 
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Do you really think your taunt aura is critical in an AV fight?|
Originally Posted by HelinCarnate
So when both of them are right on top of each other use only my single target damage attacks and turn off my taunt/damage aura and don't taunt as a tank or brute. Yea that is a great solution.
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Originally Posted by HelinCarnate
I am not attempting to tank both AVs at once. With both standing next to each other, I attack one on my brute with aoe attacks (just like most of the other 15+ people including tanks and other brutes) and get aggro from both. My attack chain is footstomp, burn, fireball with maybe a KO blow tossed out there as well. I do not view be less efficent at dealing damage as a viable option.
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And since you keep getting sequestered by using AoEs, maybe single target damage would be more efficient after all?
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| On the times when I am on a toon with taunt and both are next to each other, I taunt when I see someone else with 2 rings that wont get out of the way. Since taunt is an AOE power poof.... warning 2.. held 2 seconds later. Since I cannot control others not taunting when they should and not getting out of the way when they should, I am just asking for a warning to be a warning with time to react. |
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I usually back up and try and lose aggro, but it doesn't always work (it sure didn't in those missions where I got sequestered over and over). Most times I try to switch to the adds so that I can at least do part of what my AT is intended for. |
Originally Posted by Lazarillo
Sometimes, the AVs just wanna kill ya. Back off, move to ranged attacks or fight the ambushes. If no one in the League is making an effort to support you, then that can be their problem.
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For missions that have a participation metric it seems odd that they would put in functionality that forces me to not participate in the main battle (not to mention removes the point of the Tanker AT). I suppose sequestration is like the purple triangles to controllers, it kind of takes your AT out of the game.
Regarding the BAF numbers, I thought they were lower than 16, I should have checked. I did one at 14 once (that was one where I seemed to be the only taunter).
EDIT: I should add that for all of my runs (not that many compared to some people) on a Tanker I've never gotten quick sequestered by having the aggro from both. I've gotten two quick warnings but always made it out in time. I do wish there was something that could help alleviate sequestering, like the grenades on Lamda do to Manny's enrage.
Some people seem to be getting the wrong idea of what I am asking for or why. I am not asking to get out of being sequestered. I am not asking for a delay in the times that you can get warnings. If I get a 2nd warning and 3rd at the same time, the 3rd would still apply, but instead of it hitting right away, I am asking for short delay before the sequestering takes effect so I can get the hell out of the way and not get half the raid held.
So letÂ’s say I get the Second warning at second 0. What I am asking is for the sequestering effect to not take place until second 10 even if I get hit with it at second 1-9.
Is 10 seconds too long? How about 8, maybe 7?
Again, I am not looking for ways to prevent the sequestering. I am aware of them and can either avoid it or deal with it most of the time. It is the rare times when I get hit with 2 warnings back to back or very close together where I have the issue. If I came across as this being something that happens all the time, I apologize, that was not my intent. This would mainly be a QOL change and not a "OMFG THE GAME IS UNPLAYABLE!!!11!" request.
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I think the point others are making is that they believe the system already in place gives you all the warning you need. They believe you need to appreciate the nuances of aggro management under multiple situations and then change your behavior based on those circumstances.|
Originally Posted by HelinCarnate
This would mainly be a QOL change and not a "OMFG THE GAME IS UNPLAYABLE!!!11!" request.
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For example, they suggest that if you find yourself drawing the aggro from both AVs thanks to your AoE attack chain, then you should scale back your AoE attacks. Perhaps as someone who can get aggro, maybe you could split the AVs slightly (not a lot, even just 15 feet will still keep them both in range of debuffing, but can get them out of range of many AoEs). While this will cause less AoEs to hit both AVs, it may actually smooth out league performance by making it easier to control aggro and sequestrations and may also allow for a smoother ability to keep the AVs HPs even.
Another example was that if you should get the aggro of both AVs, then you need to know that 1 warning needs to be handled as if you had 2 warnings. You need to pull out and shed aggro (or at least get Sequestered away from the group). How you pull out can be very tricky, because you want to try to prevent the AVs from moving around too much trying to chase you down.
Allowing for a grace period after a 3rd warning kind of defeats the purpose of the entire mechanic, IMO. The strategy for that would likely just be get aggro, hold aggro, get sequestered, jump away before the AoE hold goes off. That is much less dynamic than the current situation can be.
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I think most DO get it - we just don't think your 'fix' is necessary. I've been on dozens of BAFs with my brute. I've had an AV give me the warning, immediately followed by the other AV doing the same more than once. I just consider it part of the challenge of this trial. |
Originally Posted by HelinCarnate
Some people seem to be getting the wrong idea of what I am asking for or why.
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When the AVs are grouped and i get one warning, I usually just play as normal, but I have moved to the opposite side of one AV to avoid getting the other's attention for a bit (especially on leagues where no one is really helping get the aggro off me). If I get two warnings, I get away from 'both' of them.
You're not gonna shortchange your team. I've never been on failing BAF using these simple tactics.
Recently on several BAF trials I have been getting held because I get 3 warnings. Not a big deal if you get the 2 warnings then back off so if you do get held you don't take everyone down with you. However when both NS and Siege are up and you have 1 warning, you can get your second warning from say Siege then a second later get held by NS. This gives you no time to react and everyone tends to get upset at you because they seem to think you can prevent being held 100% of the time.
What I am asking for is a 10 second delay between the time each warning or ring is applied. You could even keep it so I still end up with 2 warnings within seconds of each other, but the second one does not show up until 10 seconds after the first.