Anyone else feeling a little less than "Epic" these days?

Let me clarify this is not a thread about how Incarnate powers make anything below 50 (+3) seem dull by comparison .. mainly because I DON'T feel that way at all.

So here is the thing, and maybe I missed a memo (patch note) etc, I recently headed over to Union to spend a bit of time with our new English friends. Imagine my suprise when I went to create a character and dsicovered my options included Soldiers of Arachnos and Widows. Now I know they changed the requirement from getting a character to 50 down to level 20 and while that seemed a little like a slight to those of us that worked to get characters to 50 level I understood the marketing behind it and was fine with the change. But until I hit Union I wasn't aware all anyone had to do was get ONE character to level 20 on ANY server and suddenly the EPIC archetypes became available on all of them. Just to check and be certain I hadn't found a loophole (BUG) I went to Freedom and sure enough I was able to create an SOA there as well... (I do have several old unused characters on Freedom but none is anywhere near level 20.. the highest there was level 9).

I was always under the impression that EPIC ATs were a server to server reward as well as a RED or BLUE side one. Is it REALLY that much of a chore to level a single character to 20 level before gaining the RIGHT to create a WS, PB, SOA, or WIDOW? So what's next? Level any character on ANY server to 20 and you gain access to both HEAT and VEAT characters on ALL servers?

Don't get me wrong I now have my SOA on Union up to level 25 and have no desire to have that taken away but in part it feels like this has sort of cheapened the whole idea of the "EPIC AT". Sure it was tough to obtain before but by no means impossible.. Level a single character to 50 and you open Epics! How many of us have multiple 50 levels and on how many servers? Back then getting to make a Warshade or a Crab Spider was a reward for your efforts.. now they may as well just do away with the 20 level requirement and add them as another option for every player in the game... even the ones with a whole one day of experience. I didn't mind the drop to 20 I realized they were trying to keep newer players interested in the game by offering them things faster and it also benefitted the very casual players that may have even had 3 or more years in game but between the limited time they had to play and their Atlitis still didn't have a single 50 anywhere but it just seems TOO easy now. I can get a new character to 20 level in one good weekend of play.. find a couple good teams and a SF or TF or two and POOF.. 20 level. heck in less than an hour I took my BRAND new SOA on Freedom to level 5 running solo.

Okay done ranting pay no attention to the crazy blonde woman and go back to your gaming!

There was a red/blue requirement (lvl 50 hero, you could make a kheld, but not SoA) in the past, but as long as you met the requirements to get an EAT, you could always make one on any server...also, Epic never referred to anything other than the fact that these ATs had a built in story attached to them,as opposed to the generic other ATs.

I learned the game on red side but when I saw my first flying squid I made an emp and sped my way to 50 as quickly as possible just so I could have one. I too was a little miffed when they made the change but now I'm over it.

Nope the Epic At's were always unlocked per account.

Also for a point of reference Khelds were released back in Issue 3 when getting to 50 actually was quite a time investment.

Debt started at level 5, no xp scaling,no patrol xp,no beginners luck,no AE, no SSK, no exemped XP.

So back then it made sense to have them unlock per account .

Also since then the Devs have always stated for the record that level 50 was a mistake.

And as always "EPIC" means story, not abilities.

The "Epic" in Epic ATs refers to the literal meaning of the word, which is just a long story, rather than the colloquial meaning of the word as a stand-in for "grand." As such, Epic ATs are epic not because they are somehow elitist and exclusive, but rather because they are inextricably tied to the game's storyline and because their powers and abilities are defined by their storyline in-game, rather than by player volition.

As such, no, I don't feel any less "Epic" than before, nor did I see the change to unlock Epic ATs at 20 as anything but a good thing despite having "worked" my way to 20 several years before. The developers have always admitted that tying an AT to reaching level 50 was a mistake, and I have always agreed with them.

Not that I have any interest in Soldiers of Arachnos or Kheldians, either way.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

Hmm Okay I had no idea that epics had always been this way thanks DMystic. I guess I just never realized it because I play almost exclusively, until we picked up the EU servers, on Virue so I never saw the option to make an SOA or Kheld elsewhere until recently.

Klaw I understand how you feel and a part of me will always feel that way too. I HAD access to HEATS and VEATS before the change to 20 level and since back then there was no END GAME content gaining the access to EPIC ATS always felt like a reward. You have made it to 50.. you now have the right to play two new ATs. Let's face it back then aside from a badge it was about all we had to look forward to when we got there. I knew players that have actually deleted 50 level characters, prior to incarnates, to make room for new lower level characters. Other players used to transfer 50s to other servers to retire them so they had space for more on their MAIN server. When they announced the drop to twenty I was like most and my reaction was ..."WAIT! THEY ARE DOING WHAT? I EARNED my Warshade now anyone with a 20 level gets one too?" LOL But I have a good friend I team with all the time. I introduced him to the game and helped him get his first 50 level, which was after the switch so he already had a couple epic characters. He was thrilled to be able to make one because he'd teamed with mine and wanted one badly.

Rule one in sales.. Make everyone happy. Sure those of us that worked to 50 for them feel a slighted but how many newer players stuck around and kept their subs going because of that change?


Now to answer the last of the burning replies LOL Yeah I know that EPIC only refers to the story and IN MY OPINION hero side that definately applies. I have ONE 50 level WS and really have no desire to play any others. ON THE OTHER HAND.. I am now up to 5 VEATS on 3 servers , 2 are 50 levels and into all the incarnate stuff and a third is pushing 37. I have done an all VEAT ITF, back before incarnate even existed, and we beat Rommi so bad he ran home to his Mommy and I don't think he ever quite recovered. Until Fitness became inherent I didn't even bother with Patron Powers because I wanted more of what the primary and secondary pools offered. Operative Tessa is my main, my badger and to me she is EPIC in ever way imaginable.

[the opinons on VEAT AT expressed in this last paragraph are those of the OP and in no way reflect the opinion of NC Soft or any of its affiliates. They do however seem to reflect the general opinion of VEATS in game.. "OH cool we have two SOAs on the team. I love that added defense!"] .. Oh yeah! WE BAD! hehehe

Never felt slighted, either. And I got a villain to 50 on a low pop server. Took me hella long. I was actually glad they did it, 'cause restricting an entire AT to level 50, something a number of people still haven't achieved due to time constraints and CoH's encouraging of altitis, always rubbed me the wrong way.

Never a bad idea to improve a flawed system, no matter how long the system's been in place.

I vaguely remember some sort of message when I hit 50 - I never paid any attention to it though

I can't really remember hitting 50 the first time - I mean I know which character it was, and roughly how long into my subscription it happened, but that's about it. I'm not even 100% sure whether I got there before or after Kheldians were introduced.

So possibly as a result of that I never felt any kind of slight or dismay at the level requirement being reduced. Or perhaps it's just because I never really viewed 50 as an "accomplishment" of any real meaning, even within the context of computer games (and even if I did, I'd be scoffing at the time it takes today's 50s anyway - in my day it was uphill both ways in the caltrops, etc etc ), so didn't really view things unlocked by getting there as something worked for, earned, or otherwise considered special.

Gee guys can't a girl ask a question without getting picked on? hehehehe


I don't consider any of the 50s I leveled to be "WORK" but keep in mind I don't farm (well occasionally maybe to finish off one level before bed), I have never been PLed or PLed anyone else and take some degree of pride in the fact that I leveled my characters through missions both solo and on teams.. radios and TF/trials. My point was aside from those "AE babies" we all got to deal with that went from level 1-50 in a few hours the vast majority of us, okay I am assuming anyway, took weeks perhaps even months to get a character to 50 level. I personally suffered badly from altitis and I got my first 50 after 3 years of playtime. Now when i finally decided I was going to get a character to 50 the one I chose went from level one to 50 in about 6 weeks but that was still a considerable commitmnet of time and effort. I LOVED every minute of it and the last thing I was worried about was.. "As soon as I ding I can create a Warshade!"

Now to be perfectly honest Bill this is one area where you and disagree and you are entitled to your opinion. I know a lot of players that love them but frankly Khelds never thrilled me. I hated squid form .. too squishy and I spent time designing a costume so I could run around looking like seafood? I did like Dwarf but you had so few attacks you truely were just a MEAT SHIELD.. stand there and take damage while the rest of the team kills stuff. Human form had the best attacks but at lower levels was also vulnerable. And then there were the Void Stalkers and Crystals to deal with. "Hey congratulations on making 5o. Here try out this new AT that has it's set of bounty hunters looking to kill you. They will show up in any zone your in and in every mission you run. Oh and in most cases until you hit higher levels they can kill you with one or two shots. ENJOY! hehehe

Now on the other hand my VEATS don't have anyone out to kill them aside from whoever happens to be in the mission they are running at the time. I enjoy the numerous options available and the different ways to equip a crab, a bane a widow or a fortunata.. and let's not forget a Hunstman. Most teams I have joined seem very happy to have one or more providing added defenses and increasing the ability to hit targets. Okay so my FIRST outfit had to be an Arachnos uniform but they turned right around and made it possible for me to add a 2nd at level 10. To me it always seemed they put more thought into creating them than they did with the Khelds. Just my opinion and anyone is free to disagree.

Like I said I understand why they did it but while not a lot of people are voicing it now Back when the change first occurred this was the source of yet another FLAME war here on the forums with one side insisting it was no big deal while the other felt it was just another thing they were doing that took away a prize (?) for acheiving something and just haded it to anyone. .... to use another odd example in Port Okaes it used to take 50 Pirate Ghosts captured in the traps to earn a badge. Then suddenly the requirement dropped to 10. The first time I got that badge a team of 5 of us spent more than an hour, since they only appear at night, getting enough for the badge. NOW.. With Tessa I managed to trap 10 solo in about 15 minutes. Its not a huge deal and personally if they'd make it so you at LEAST had to get a 20 on each server you played on I would be willing to accpet that as reasonable. What they did was drop the level and keep the account wide stuff and now its almost a joke. But whatever.. I have incarnate stuff to do so.. Have fun all time to head back in game

I just know that I, personally, find "entitlement" to only extend within the confines of a single person. "What am I entitled to," not "What am I entitled to as opposed to that other guy?" As such, I find it completely and utterly immaterial what other people have, because I don't measure success by how much more or less it is than other people, but by success own merits. As such, all I care about regarding Epic ATs is whether or not I have them. I couldn't care less if other people have them or what they did to get them. So long as I have my Epics, others can get them for free for all I care.

I find the drop to level 20 is a good thing. If more people can have the good stuff for less work, then that's a better game for everybody, as far as I'm concerned.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

My first 50 happened in I4. He's my empathy defender, Combat R1, and it took him over 1250 hours to get to the big five-0. Talk about journey before destination.

My spines/fire scrapper on the other hand took 57 hours. I guess I've gotten a bit better.

Not in the least.

I got my namesake PLd from 44-50 so I could get an Epic AT, same with my Nin/Nin Stalker, who is now permashelved.

I've overjoyed new players get new toys at level 20, that hopefully keep them interested in the game so that they spend an extra month or two here tweaking their new shinies.

Viva la (V)eat.