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Making CoX F2P: How would you do it?
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2011-05-19 21:53 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Just to throw a little curve ball in there, today a certain F2P company announced 15% increase in revenue in the same quarter CoH saw a decline to its lowest income ever. Food for thought.
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My thoughts on the matter....
NCSoft has not advertized, that I have seen, CoH for sometime, and certainly not in a big way.
at this point in time I think Free to Play would be inevitable.
I just hope it is the right move for the game. The number of Players would increase, and eventually these new players would see all the neat stuff that us long time players have, and would want the same things. NCSoft would have to come up with new stuff more often to get money from us. Want a new power set? that will be $25.00 NEW ZONE! Access $25.00 etc...
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That means nothing without more data to compare it to which we don't have. It could simply mean that they went from earning $100 dollars in revenue to $115 dollars.
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Originally Posted by Daemodand
Just to throw a little curve ball in there, today a certain F2P company announced 15% increase in revenue in the same quarter CoH saw a decline to its lowest income ever. Food for thought.
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
That means nothing without more data to compare it to which we don't have. It could simply mean that they went from earning $100 dollars in revenue to $115 dollars.
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or $1-$1.15
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The only way I will for sure be quitting is if they make it so F2P is the ONLY option and everyone has to pay an additional fee for things we all currently get for free (like new zones, new powersets, etc.)| So anyone saying things like "if the game goes F2P I'm quitting" is free to draw their line in the sand, but its a line I don't afford much credibility towards. |
If they introduce F2P as an option alongside subscriptions, well, I'll probably be annoyed at all the badly behaving people who inevitably flock to free games so they can troll people and in general be a bunch of tools, but I doubt I would quit over it.
My opinion is that I think F2P is a bad idea for this game, but my decision as to whether I would continue to play would hinge on exactly how it's implemented, if it indeed goes that way.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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This past week I decided to start playing two different F2P's, to see how baaaaaaaaad it really is.|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
If they introduce F2P as an option alongside subscriptions, well, I'll probably be annoyed at all the badly behaving people who inevitably flock to free games so they can troll people and in general be a bunch of tools, but I doubt I would quit over it.
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You know what?
So far on both I've experienced extremely helpful, social, active communities. Sure, there might be an annoying person here and there - but - *gasp* - guess what - we have those sort of people on CoH already!!!
I would just revamp the Trial system:
1. Three character slots per server.
2. No level limit.
3. No time limit.
4. Can't gain merits.
5. Can't enter AE missions.
6. Can't slot IO's or incarnate powers.
7. Can't join incarnate trials.
8. Can only send tells/mail to SG mates or to someone that sent you a tell recently.
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1. Three character slots per server. (I think four might still be a little nicer - to get free players a little more variety.)
2. No level limit. (Agreed)
3. No time limit. (Agreed)
4. Can't gain merits. (Hadn't thought of that, agreed)
5. Can't enter AE missions. (Absolutely)
6. Can't slot IO's or incarnate powers. (Agreed - Incarnate powers shouldn't even be available to free players.)
7. Can't join incarnate trials. (I feel that free players shouldn't have access to the Incarnate System at all.)
8. Can only send tells/mail to SG mates or to someone that sent you a tell recently. (Hmmm, understandable.)
I would personally like Trial players to have the ability of sending tells to team leaders, but I can't see how it could be done without enabling RMT spammers.
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Ahhhh! They won't be Trial players! They'll be Free!
I don't think Free players should have the tell option (or broadcast.) They should be able to receive but not send - which is extremely limiting in terms of communicating with others players.
Or perhaps a quota of tells they can send each day? (10? 20?)
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Most of us know what it means when F2P comes to CoH, that's why we're making the comments. It will mean the end of subs and the beginning of the pay per play era. If it goes big, the knickel and diming will never stop or be abused.
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Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
The only way I will for sure be quitting is if they make it so F2P is the ONLY option and everyone has to pay an additional fee for things we all currently get for free (like new zones, new powersets, etc.)
If they introduce F2P as an option alongside subscriptions, well, I'll probably be annoyed at all the badly behaving people who inevitably flock to free games so they can troll people and in general be a bunch of tools, but I doubt I would quit over it. My opinion is that I think F2P is a bad idea for this game, but my decision as to whether I would continue to play would hinge on exactly how it's implemented, if it indeed goes that way. |
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Trials should be allowed to talk to others. I never, never understood this. If your allowed to make friends, you'll probably stay.
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Originally Posted by Auroxis
I would personally like Trial players to have the ability of sending tells to team leaders, but I can't see how it could be done without enabling RMT spammers.
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Okay, enough with this constant demonizing of players in other online games. First it started with generalizations regarding WoW players and now it has moved on to F2P. Does it make you feel better about yourselves by putting down other gamers in other communities? This is especially foolish if you consider the fact that many online gamers are actively playing more than one game at a time so their participation in one community isn't really all that exclusive. Is it really plausible that they'll be good, upstanding citizens in only one game while acting like douchebags in all the others?
Oh, I certainly realize that there are indeed *certain* other competition driven games that may end up causing a lot of friction and grief within a community. The old school EQ community for example. But from my personal experience, that is the exception, not the norm. As far as I'm concerned, CoH has its share of in-game idiots too, no less than some other games. The same can be said for F2P games and just because it is F2P, it doesn't mean there will automatically be hordes of anti-social rejects hell bent on causing trouble for others. That simply isn't *fun* for a lot of people. It's not as if $15 a month in subscription is some massive financial hurdle, certainly not a big enough number to filter out the vast majority of online jerks out there.
Lastly, it is pure hypocrisy to put the CoH community on a high pedestal while use negative generalizations to describe other gaming communities. Is such behavior really the hallmark of upstanding citizens in a top notch community?
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This isn't true. If this game goes F2P it will most likely follow the route of tiered accounts. |
Originally Posted by Residentx10
Most of us know what it means when F2P comes to CoH, that's why we're making the comments. It will mean the end of subs and the beginning of the pay per play era. If it goes big, the knickel and diming will never stop or be abused.
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Uhm news flash but this game as well as every sub based MMO is already pay per play. You can't play unless you pay first, and the smallest block of time you can buy is 30 days.
No argument on the nickel and diming, but it's up to the company how far they take it. If they are smart they'll try to find a balance between what gets added for free and what has to be bought.
If they are really smart they'll make sure everything in the store (with the exception of things like server transfers and rename tokens) is available for free in the game as long as the player puts the effort into unlocking it.
That way players don't have to spend money to get what they want from playing the game, and the "Gottahaveitnao" impulse buyers can buy it from the store.
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Hypocrisy has nothing to do with it. It's human nature to remember unpleasant experiences and try to avoid them if possible. |
Originally Posted by baron_inferno
Okay, enough with this constant demonizing of players in other online games.
Lastly, it is pure hypocrisy to put the CoH community on a high pedestal while use negative generalizations to describe other gaming communities. Is such behavior really the hallmark of upstanding citizens in a top notch community? |
Don't believe me? Then go stick your tongue in an electric wall socket, or put your hand on a red hot stove.
You say you're not going to do that because it hurts? Well that's a negative experience and you are trying to avoid it.
Think that's too extreme of an example then just pop on up to the rude thells thread and read the thousands of negative experiences players have had with jerks playing this and several other games.
The sad truth of the matter is that even tho the jerks and RMTers only make up a tiny fraction of the overall gaming community in any game, they are still the people that we remember the most because that is how human beings are wired. We remember unpleasant situations more vividly so we can learn from them and avoid them.
Please don't make this game into CO. I don't want to pay $20 every week to get new shinies. If CoX was following the same path as Cryptic the Incarnate Trials would be $40 a pop.
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No, every game is not pay per play. We sub to this game to get access to content on monthly, quarterly basis. When I say pay per play, I mean you have buy to content per play/session. This is the long term hopes of F2P, give them the base content but make them buy the advanced content.
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
This isn't true. If this game goes F2P it will most likely follow the route of tiered accounts.
Uhm news flash but this game as well as every sub based MMO is already pay per play. You can't play unless you pay first, and the smallest block of time you can buy is 30 days. No argument on the nickel and diming, but it's up to the company how far they take it. If they are smart they'll try to find a balance between what gets added for free and what has to be bought. If they are really smart they'll make sure everything in the store (with the exception of things like server transfers and rename tokens) is available for free in the game as long as the player puts the effort into unlocking it. That way players don't have to spend money to get what they want from playing the game, and the "Gottahaveitnao" impulse buyers can buy it from the store. |
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Okay that is different and thank you for clarifying. From what I've seen in certain other F2P MMO's that aspect applied top the free accounts and the subs get the content for free when it's added.|
Originally Posted by Residentx10
No, every game is not pay per play. We sub to this game to get access to content on monthly, quarterly basis. When I say pay per play, I mean you have buy to content per play/session.
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I have no problem with the freebies having to buy extra content. It serves as a way to pay to keep the game active and acts as an incentive for F2P players to upgrade to a sub so they can get it for free as well.
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Your analysis of the human psyche is correct but there is one important thing you are forgetting. Recollecting previous unpleasant situations would involve having accumulated that experience in the first place. In other words, for your analysis to apply, anyone who has made generalizations about other game communities has to have actually played and experienced those game communities first hand. Otherwise it is all just hearsay and speculation with no factual basis. Think about the last time you heard someone claim that they heard a rumor from a friend who has a friend who heard it first hand. Would you base your opinion on something as fleeting as that? I personally wouldn't and I would smack anyone who would upside the head but that's just me.|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
We remember unpleasant situations more vividly so we can learn from them and avoid them.
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Now, is it plausible that *everyone* who has ever made negative generalizations about the WoW population has played it before? Possible but doubtful. What about in the case of negative generalizations about the F2P population? Given the downright disdain (if not hatred) some people have shown towards F2P games, it is not hard to imagine that the vast majority of them have never tried it themselves.
This type of ignorant behavior has gone far beyond the rational explanations of the human condition I'm afraid.
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I don't know that, because ALL evidence out there says the most likely way for a subscription MMO to add a F2P option is to create a hybrid tiered model. I say all evidence because I can't find an MMO in recent memory that launched as a subscription service and then threw out its subscription program while it actually still had subscribers and converted 100% to an ala carte play model without actually shutting down first. Certainly, none of the high profile recent conversions did that.
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Originally Posted by Residentx10
Most of us know what it means when F2P comes to CoH, that's why we're making the comments. It will mean the end of subs and the beginning of the pay per play era. If it goes big, the knickel and diming will never stop or be abused.
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F2P won't work completely now because we have been conditioned by the sub experience and have a touchstone...the next generation...business hopes to "condition" them to the pay per play/content model. It will not be fully implemented in our time. Generation Next will get to see it. Also, don't forget this is a business, company's want more money period. This is their long-term/business continunity plan.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
I don't know that, because ALL evidence out there says the most likely way for a subscription MMO to add a F2P option is to create a hybrid tiered model. I say all evidence because I can't find an MMO in recent memory that launched as a subscription service and then threw out its subscription program while it actually still had subscribers and converted 100% to an ala carte play model without actually shutting down first. Certainly, none of the high profile recent conversions did that.
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No it doesn't. |
Originally Posted by baron_inferno
Your analysis of the human psyche is correct but there is one important thing you are forgetting. Recollecting previous unpleasant situations would involve having accumulated that experience in the first place. In other words, for your analysis to work, anyone who has made generalizations about other game communities has to have actually played and experienced those game communities first hand. Otherwise it is all just hearsay and speculation with no factual basis.
Now, is it plausible that *everyone* who has ever made negative generalizations about the WoW population has played it before? Possible but doubtful. What about in the case of negative generalizations about the F2P population? Given the downright disdain (if not hatred) some people have shown towards F2P games, it is not hard to imagine that the vast majority of them have never tried it themselves. This type of ignorant behavior has gone far beyond the rational explanations of the human condition I'm afraid. |
One does not have to stick his tongue into dozens of electric outlets to know it hurts, nor do they need to touch dozens of hot stoves to know they are hot, and they don't need to play dozens of F2P games to learn that there are F2P players that are rude and obnoxious because there are no consequences to getting an account banned. They'll just create a new account and continue acting like jerks.
People only need one experience to form an opinion, and they can take an unpleasant experience in one situation and apply it to any number of different scenarios.
Hmm I touched a hot stove and it hurt so I won't do that again.
What you say that light bulb is hot because it's been on for a couple hours? Well I remember what happened when I touched a hot stove so I won't touch that light bulb.
Hmm That lit cigar will probably hurt if I drop it in my lap because it's hot so I'll try not to do that.
Hmm those candles will probably hurt me if I try to put them out with my hand so I'll blow them out instead.
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In what way is this relevant to what I was responding to, which is your prior statement that its obvious the implementation of a F2P option is always associated with a discontinuation of the subscription option. You said F2P means subscriptions die, and that everyone knows this. I'm challenging that statement specifically.|
Originally Posted by Residentx10
F2P won't work completely now because we have been conditioned by the sub experience and have a touchstone...the next generation...business hopes to "condition" them to the pay per play/content model. It will not be fully implemented in our time. Generation Next will get to see it. Also, don't forget this is a business, company's want more money period. This is their long-term/business continunity plan.
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Changing subjects completely, I don't see how we can be "conditioned" any more than the players of other MMOs that implemented F2P options, and I don't see how discontinuing the subcription model helps a company make money. Some people want to pay a flat rate, and some want to pay ala carte. Hybrid models provide options for both kinds of players, which means there is no incentive for a company to exclude one set of those players.
The problem intrinsic in the flat subscription model is that you can land in a local attractor. Basically, the number of subscribers you have is somewhat related to how good a game you can make, which is itself based on how much resources you can devote to the game. With momentum, you can end up with a million subscribers and the resources from a million subscriptions to fund a game worthy of a million subscribers. But if you have a hundred thousand subscribers plus or minus like we do, you have less subscribers and less resources, which means you can make only so much game, and since the only way to make more money and thus get more resources to make more game is to attract more subscribers, you can get locked into that situation.
We already aren't, and haven't been in a flat subscription model for some time now. City of Heroes has been operating in a subscription + booster model whereby they can directly make more money for making more game. They make a booster pack, and they get additional revenue over and above the subscription fee to fund more booster packs. That is a way to improve *both* the financial situation and the game situation without the more difficult requirement of radically increasing subscribers, which is difficult for a long-established game.
The F2P model is really an extension of that same thought process. The idea is that the incremental costs to support a single player are very low, so allowing people to play for free doesn't cost a lot more. But if it opens opportunities to sell those players game enhancements, they can pay for themselves and then some. And this isn't a wash: if the ala carte players generate enough revenue to fund more game development that benefits everyone, including subscription players.
The key is to make sure you give the subscribers enough game to ensure that players already used to paying a subscription will still think it is worth it, while creating enough optional extras to ensure that enough of the ala carte non-subscribers buy enough things to pay for their incremental costs and fund more development.
The playerbase has already proven to NCSoft that we're willing to pay subscriptions, and we're willing to pay extra for game enhancements if they are deemed worth the money. So in terms of transitioning to an F2P game, the subscribers have already proven with their wallets that the subscription option of the F2P model already works here. The challenge would be on creating a compelling F2P option that did not devalue subscribers. It would not be in convincing subscribers to do what they already do.
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