The Willpower Powerset and Comics
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2011-05-16 08:22 in Comic and Hero-Villain Culture
I picture Wolverine as a Claws/Willpower Brute, since his regeneration works in bursts, plus he's just generally tough/resistant to damage and does try to get out of the way of things which'll really cause damage, all of which are shown through the powerset.
I also count in the likes of Joker (MA/WP Scrapper with alternate animations), Rorschach (MA/WP Stalker with alternate animations), Green Lantern (kinda, if Energy Blast/WP was possible. I guess Energy or Kinetic melee would work), Punisher (AR/WP would be sweet), Lobo (WP/SS Tanker), more MA/WP scrappers by way of Wildcat, The Question, Batman (sometimes)..
I am the Blaster, I have filled the role of Tank, Controller and Defender
Sometimes all at once.
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I have a hard time considering Batman, Joker, Punisher, etc as Willpower characters. The OP mentions the way the set works in the game, which is basically like regeneration (but better), so if Batman had CoH Willpower, Bane would break his back, turn to walk away and then have Batman back up on his feet in perfect condition maybe 10 seconds later. Then someone might shoot Batman, emptying an entire clip into him and having him collapse in a pool of blood only to rise up yet again a few seconds later. Willpower in real life can let you ignore some injuries, but CoH Willpower makes you Wolverine.
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I think the WP regeneration is more supposed to show pure defiance against being taken down, but I see most sets open to interpretation. I've taken Willpower's regeneration to be forcefields, actual regeneration, repairing power suits. Punisher's avoidance of what would normall kill a normal person (WP's defense to E/N/F/C), his body armour (S/L resist) and tenacity against being slowed down/stopped (regeneration/+hp) is how I see it, similarly to Batman and Joker.
I am the Blaster, I have filled the role of Tank, Controller and Defender
Sometimes all at once.
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In CoH a level 3 blaster is akin to Wolverine.|
Originally Posted by Arnabas
Willpower in real life can let you ignore some injuries, but CoH Willpower makes you Wolverine.
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"A 50 ton robot just stomped on me with its foot and I'm at death's door. Lemme just run over here and kneel down for 15 seconds and... Ah, all better!"
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Quote:
^This|
Originally Posted by Arnabas
I have a hard time considering Batman, Joker, Punisher, etc as Willpower characters. The OP mentions the way the set works in the game, which is basically like regeneration (but better), so if Batman had CoH Willpower, Bane would break his back, turn to walk away and then have Batman back up on his feet in perfect condition maybe 10 seconds later. Then someone might shoot Batman, emptying an entire clip into him and having him collapse in a pool of blood only to rise up yet again a few seconds later. Willpower in real life can let you ignore some injuries, but CoH Willpower makes you Wolverine.
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Batman as far as CoH goes would be a MA/SR Scrapper with the APP that gives you the shuriken (Batarangs), Punisher is absolutely an AR or DP /Traps Corr with the fighting pool, and Lobo is a SS/Inv Brute... He can bounce bullets and duke it out with Kal-El.
So what do you think maybe DC's Zauriel is a natural or magic origin WP/SS Tanker?
Mousedroid lol that example makes me think of Cyclops, President and card carrying member of the "I Should Be Dead" Club.
I would peg Star Brand, from Marvel's New Universe, as a willpower character. His powers explicitly worked based on his mental state -- if he's scared or demoralized his powers failed. Of course he would be an energy blast/willpower armor hybrid that doesn't fit into the CoH archetypes.
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Thanks I'll have to check out Star Brand. So then basically WP isn't cut and dry mind over matter, it can be a mixture of healing factor, natural toughness, and attitude based resistances/defenses?
Yeah that's right Sentry too, his powers failed on him because he believed that they were dampened but they really weren't.
If Wolverine is WP that would make Sabertooth and Hulk WP as well, but I'd say Deadpool is straight up a Katana/Regen Scrapper.
Another thing about Cyclops, I would consider him a NRG/PD blaster... PD standing for Plot Device of course. Ugh, I never was a big X-Men fan. I can take them in small doses but Joe McEyebeams just gets under my skin.
From other discussions on this subject, action heroes such as John McClane (from Die Hard). They don't have any special powers, but they can take vast amounts of damage without dying. Or maybe the best exemplar of a Willpower character would be The Black Knight from Holy Grail.
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Heck, his catch phrase was "I can do it...I must do it...I will do it"
However, it turned out that Smith was not a time-travelling Terminator
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Who?
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Originally Posted by Mr. DJ
Sentry
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Marvel's "Superman" if I recall.
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The "natural" characters that I always think of as being Willpower are characters like Malcolm Reynolds, Indiana Jones and Harry Dresden. They don't actually regenerate wounds (well ok, Harry does but it takes years) but they are not slowed down at all by minor injuries and will keep going to some degree even with major injuries (Out of Gas is a good example of this for Malcolm).|
Originally Posted by Coach Hines
I want to create a WP toon but thematically I'm having a tough time wrapping my mind around a non mutant/magic origin character that decides that bullets, energy blasts, baseball bats etc. don't hurt and thus isn't effected.
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In general I consider hit points in RPGs to be an abstraction that does not literally represent "how many injuries can I take" but instead is a measure of the character's ability to keep going. The Willpower set is, to me, an excellent example of that in action. It regenerates hit points at a rapid rate not because the wounds are healing but because the character will not stop fighting for anything other than a major injury.
To some degree all powersets in the game exhibit a degree of Gameplay and Story Segregation since abilities can often times affect enemies they shouldn't be able to, (how exactly is hitting a Khronos Titan on the foot with a sword supposed to help?) but Willpower is probably the one where it really matters.
Essentially, the way I see it a Willpower character is not getting injured by most of the attacks that "hit" him. He is getting a dramatic scratch somewhere and his clothing is getting torn a lot but unless he gets unlucky and takes a lot of hits at once or takes several huge hits he keeps fighting anyway. This works well with the mechanics of the set, a steady stream of small hits won't bother him, you'll regen hit points faster than you lose them. However, if he takes to many hits in quick succession or takes several large hits you'll lose the time needed for the regeneration to work and he'll go down (of course he then staggers to his feet because that's what Willpower characters do).
Sentry's power is reality manipulation (because that always goes over so well in comics). Seriously though, the only Willpower character I can think of that doesn't rely on any other power is Kick-***.
If we step outside western comics for a moment, I'd say that when I think of the Willpower set, I tend to be reminded of a lot of action heroes from the various martial arts manga series. They don't often have explicit super powers, they're simply super by virtue of "being really tough". Anime/manga posterboy Goku from Dragonball would be a good example.
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I think willpower translates to the power of friendship in Japan |
Originally Posted by Lazarillo
If we step outside western comics for a moment, I'd say that when I think of the Willpower set, I tend to be reminded of a lot of action heroes from the various martial arts manga series. They don't often have explicit super powers, they're simply super by virtue of "being really tough". Anime/manga posterboy Goku from Dragonball would be a good example.
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@That_Ninja I never saw Kickass, what were his powers if any?
Regarding DBZ I always figured the saiyjins were /Inv. I could see Krillin as a good /WP candidate.
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Kickass doesn't have any powers. He's just a teenage who decided to dress up and beat thugs with sticks. The only real power he may have is a metal plate in his head. |
Originally Posted by Coach Hines
@That_Ninja I never saw Kickass, what were his powers if any?
Regarding DBZ I always figured the saiyjins were /Inv. I could see Krillin as a good /WP candidate. |
Also, which Marvel Gladiator are you talking about? If it is the Shiar one, then his powers are defiantly Superman ones.
And to mention Sentry, despite being a horribly written character, he wasn't needed at all. The Marvel Universe was unique for not having a Superman and a Batman. Besides, Thor always filled the role as the most powerful hero on earth, and that's how I liked it.
Willpower in comics is personified by Green Lantern - without will, the ring doesn't work. But that's not really the kind of willpower being discussed here.
If we expand the discussion beyond comics, then another good candidate for a Willpower tank would be Rocky Balboa. Dude gets the daylights pounded out of him for ten rounds and still wins by sheer willpower alone.
I don't know about the comics version of Kick-***, but the movie version had metal pins and plates inserted throughout his skeleton (he even references his Wolverine-ness) and he suffered nerve damage that dulls his sense of pain. Not exactly superpowers, but two characteristics that would be handy to have if you're going to put yourself in situations where people try to beat you to death.
(Sometimes, I wish there could be a Dev thumbs up button for quality posts, because you pretty much nailed it.) -- Ghost Falcon
Classic slasher characters like Jason Voorhees would fit the bill too, I think.
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Darkman also has the nerve damage thing too, so he's a candidate.|
Originally Posted by mousedroid
I don't know about the comics version of Kick-***, but the movie version had metal pins and plates inserted throughout his skeleton (he even references his Wolverine-ness) and he suffered nerve damage that dulls his sense of pain. Not exactly superpowers, but two characteristics that would be handy to have if you're going to put yourself in situations where people try to beat you to death.
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And I can't help but think of willpower working like Lawrence of Arabia's trick.
Always remember, we were Heroes.
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I disagree. Considering, as you said, Thor and Gladiator, and then Sentry, Hyperion (in his umpteen incarnations), Beta Ray Bill, Blue Marvel, and I'm sure a bunch of guys I'm forgetting Marvel has more than enough Superman expy's and has had them for a while.|
Originally Posted by That_Ninja
...Also, which Marvel Gladiator are you talking about? If it is the Shiar one, then his powers are defiantly Superman ones.
And to mention Sentry, despite being a horribly written character, he wasn't needed at all. The Marvel Universe was unique for not having a Superman and a Batman. Besides, Thor always filled the role as the most powerful hero on earth, and that's how I liked it. |
As for Batman, I can only think of Moon Knight off hand, but I know there's other Batman homages too.
Tales of Judgment. Also here, instead of that other place.
good luck D.B.B.
I tend to think of willpower as the "sheer bloody mindedness" powerset:
"Yes I might have just been shot, but I'll wrap a dirty bandage around my arm, pop a couple of aspirin and I'm good to go."
...and:
"Look, it's just a flesh-wound, stop bugging me; I have bad guys to beat up."
It's the powerset for pulp action heroes: John McClane, Indiana Jones, Flash Gordon, The Spirit.
For me, it's the natural defense for the heroes with no powers who didn't train with Ninjas.
Eh, I always saw the name of the set to be nothing more than that. The name of the set.
It's description, nothing more than added flavor text.
One could just as easily play WP as an INV type.
The real difference is just in the numbers. How you let it play out in concept is a different thing.
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So who in the comics other than Marvel's Gladiator would be assigned the Willpower powerset and what AT would they be?
I want to create a WP toon but thematically I'm having a tough time wrapping my mind around a non mutant/magic origin character that decides that bullets, energy blasts, baseball bats etc. don't hurt and thus isn't effected.
What do you guys think?