LAMDA and new squishy 50


Arcanaville

 

Posted

I just got a new fire/rad controller to 50. I puts some IO sets on him. I didn't put any purples or anything like that but I may need a few more sets to fill him out nicely.

I tried lambda and this is pretty much my experience.

first group POOF, I'm dead. I don't even see what hit me, probably just LAG. I think I only got one cast off. There were one or two more POOFs before going inside, I can't even get close to anything for my choking cloud to even try to hold anything. for the most part none of my Mez works on anything worth using mez on. I can't see any indication my char or flash fire do anything but put aggro on me. I end up lagging behind everyone to hope someone else might take aggro first.

Once in the warehouse the first group goes ok with the same wait technique but by the second or third container the tank is at his aggro limit. I'm one shot and POOF I'm dead. self rez using phoenix and die before my body leaves the ground.

I want to know what the developers were thinking when the made this instance. Tanks apparently don't need healers since the healers would just die for the same reason I died. LAMDA can be fun with the right character but it's HORRIBLE on others. I seem to like it the most on my illusion controllers followed by my tanks. I seem to HATE it on almost everything else. Other than hiding in the hospital until this part is over I find it pointless to try and help. It was the worst on my ice/kin controller since slow doesn't seem to scale down like other powers. ( one ice cast and I'm dead ). The whole one shot thing means no healer could save me if they wanted to.

I'm really hating LAMDA and wish I could get my XP doing regular TFs and what not.


 

Posted

Well a third trial is due out before i21 and the Devs have mentioned creating a solo/story path for incarnat experience as well.

You can also do BAF and use threads and astrals to unlock experience for your interface slot without running Lamda at all.

so you have options right now, and more will come in the future.

As far as your experience goes, I haven't had such problems with aggro on my blaster or dom. Typically spawns die so fast I can only get in one attack or at most two. Until we're at the final stage that is and all the adds keep coming in, but at that point I just stay at a distance and focus on Marauder so no worries.

I do recommend avoiding choking cloud as it won't really help much and there are a lot of AoEs if you get in close. Stay back and blast instead of focusing on control. Once you get the hang of the flow of combat mix in your debuffs and controls, both of which do draw more aggro than pure damage alone does. You can also focus on single-target attacks over AoEs for the first few, then AoE when the mob is smaller and already attacking someone else.

Last, don't worry about purples, only one gives significant defense (but it is the best ranged defense available anywhere), they are mostly used for recharge. If you are dying alot, look into thunderstrikes, Multistrikes and other reasonably affordable yellow sets with ranged and aoe defense bonuses.


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Posted

OutaControl,

I laughed when I read your post. I have controllers and dominators...both are consider squishies. I have had the same experiences that you have had. I will say this first...this is the most humbling experience in the game. I have even been kicked from teams immediately because of this.

Let me say this first, these two types are crowd controllers, they are not frontline fighters....I just say that to set expectations. I have tried very hard to semi-adapt them. Personally, I prefer Dominators to Controllers because they have assault powers. For example, I'm in the process of replacing my hero controller with a hero dominator just so I can get more punch/power to my characters. To get the good stuff you must having killing power in this game. Plain and Simple.

Potential solutions:

1. Add stealth/invisibility
2. Let other's take the aggro on targets first, you should be last to enter the fight. I can't say this enough. Use ranged, PBOE, Pets but don't physically get near ground zero. I have been successful with this.
3. If you desire heavy hand to hand, consider a different Archetype.
4. Watch your back, Lambda enemies have constant attacks that will quickly drain you to zero.
Avoid the Warwork and Heavy Troopers, their weapons are designed just to drain you.
http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Warworks
http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Imperial_Defense_Force

Remember every team member has a role but if people crossover sometimes it can create more problems. The controllers/dominators have low hit points because they should not be leading combatting or heavily engaged in it.

Hope this helps.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by GavinRuneblade View Post
I do recommend avoiding choking cloud as it won't really help much and there are a lot of AoEs if you get in close. Stay back and blast instead of focusing on control. Once you get the hang of the flow of combat mix in your debuffs and controls, both of which do draw more aggro than pure damage alone does. You can also focus on single-target attacks over AoEs for the first few, then AoE when the mob is smaller and already attacking someone else.
I had a few deaths with my Fire/Rad when I first ran her through the Lambdas. Of course that was right after I20 went live when everyone lacked the +2 and +3 Incarnate shifts so it was hard for everyone then. All I can say is that now with +3 shifts and everyone else on a league mostly shifted up too it's much more enjoyable.

As far as "avoiding choking cloud" goes I finally gave up on it and respec'd out of it several years ago. I know that fact is slightly tangential to the point of this thread, but still not having it at all did help me NOT die too much on my first Lambdas. This is yet another example of it being far more trouble than it's worth.


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Posted

Also remember you're fighting +4s here. Until you get your level and incarnate shifts, you should be fighting from range. Get to know your powers. Choking Cloud for example, will barely affect +4, maybe a second or two of hold at the most.

Print out the lambda sector map and basically just leech during the warehouse and training facility parts until you memorize the path. Once you can keep up with the speed runners on that part it becomes a lot less painful.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by OutaControl View Post
I just got a new fire/rad controller to 50. I puts some IO sets on him. I didn't put any purples or anything like that but I may need a few more sets to fill him out nicely.

I tried lambda and this is pretty much my experience.

first group POOF, I'm dead. I don't even see what hit me, probably just LAG. I think I only got one cast off. There were one or two more POOFs before going inside, I can't even get close to anything for my choking cloud to even try to hold anything. for the most part none of my Mez works on anything worth using mez on. I can't see any indication my char or flash fire do anything but put aggro on me. I end up lagging behind everyone to hope someone else might take aggro first.

Once in the warehouse the first group goes ok with the same wait technique but by the second or third container the tank is at his aggro limit. I'm one shot and POOF I'm dead. self rez using phoenix and die before my body leaves the ground.

I want to know what the developers were thinking when the made this instance. Tanks apparently don't need healers since the healers would just die for the same reason I died. LAMDA can be fun with the right character but it's HORRIBLE on others. I seem to like it the most on my illusion controllers followed by my tanks. I seem to HATE it on almost everything else. Other than hiding in the hospital until this part is over I find it pointless to try and help. It was the worst on my ice/kin controller since slow doesn't seem to scale down like other powers. ( one ice cast and I'm dead ). The whole one shot thing means no healer could save me if they wanted to.

I'm really hating LAMDA and wish I could get my XP doing regular TFs and what not.
Slot an Alpha. I didn't see where you mentioned that. If you're getting whacked this badly, it sounds like you don't have anything in your Alpha slot.

The level 1 is enough to normalize your level with them. If you do the trial with your alpha unlocked but unslotted, you're still fighting at -8 handicap, instead of the natural -4 differential.

Your best bet is to get one to level 3, which gives you the +1 level shift. And as you work on the other slots, you'll get another +2 level shifts from other Incarnate slots.

But seriously, this screams, "I unlocked the alpha but it's not slotted". Is this the case?


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by StarGeek View Post
Print out the lambda sector map and basically just leech during the warehouse and training facility parts until you memorize the path.
Whee!!!! Stargeek said I could leech! Awesome!




Wait. What's different than any other trial or Task Force???


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by StarGeek View Post
Also remember you're fighting +4s here. Until you get your level and incarnate shifts, you should be fighting from range. Get to know your powers. Choking Cloud for example, will barely affect +4, maybe a second or two of hold at the most.

Print out the lambda sector map and basically just leech during the warehouse and training facility parts until you memorize the path. Once you can keep up with the speed runners on that part it becomes a lot less painful.
Agreed. My corrupter with Choking cloud actually managed to hold a mob of +4 for a 2-3 seconds. Afterwards they all looked at me and brawled me to death...
A good, solid team can have success, but I think it's silly hard even when fighting from range, any sort of attention (aggro) and you're done for if you're anything less than the Hulk...


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turgenev View Post
Slot an Alpha. I didn't see where you mentioned that. If you're getting whacked this badly, it sounds like you don't have anything in your Alpha slot.

The level 1 is enough to normalize your level with them. If you do the trial with your alpha unlocked but unslotted, you're still fighting at -8 handicap, instead of the natural -4 differential.
No, you aren't. That's only Tin Mage and Apex. Apparently the developers realized what an idiotic idea that was - even though they left it in on those two TFs.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Residentx10 View Post
1. Add stealth/invisibility
This. Rather than Respec, just add a stealth IO to your travel power. They're cheap now-a-days, since you only have to do 20 tips to get two A-Merits to buy one. This is something you can easily do solo. If you can't add a Stealth IO, put a Celerity Stealth IO in Run and just toggle that on during the warehouse phase.

Also, stock up on Lucks from the medic in RWZ before the Trial, and use them liberally during this phase. It helps immensely.

Quote:
2. Let other's take the aggro on targets first, you should be last to enter the fight. I can't say this enough. Use ranged, PBOE, Pets but don't physically get near ground zero. I have been successful with this.
This too. I can solo warehouse crates, if I can get in behind the spawn where they don't see me. Attacking will break stealth, but as long as they don't see me, I can whittle down the crate and destroy it with out drawing any aggro at all.


In addition, expect to die a lot until you get the hang of it. Just go to the hosp in zone (they have lucks there too, hint hint) and get back in there looking for crates/containers.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Turgenev View Post
If you do the trial with your alpha unlocked but unslotted, you're still fighting at -8 handicap, instead of the natural -4 differential.
Nope, not the Lambda or BAF. There are, however, plenty of +4 bosses that will hurt you plenty unless you take great care to avoid their attention.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill View Post
No, you aren't. That's only Tin Mage and Apex. Apparently the developers realized what an idiotic idea that was - even though they left it in on those two TFs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gameboy1234 View Post
Nope, not the Lambda or BAF. There are, however, plenty of +4 bosses that will hurt you plenty unless you take great care to avoid their attention.
I stand duly corrected. Thanks for the clarification.

OP: Slotting your alpha for the +1 is still a good idea however; so is going for the additional +2 in the higher incarnate slots, but that'll come with time. If you have another buffer on the team, you might want to coordinate with them to share buffs your way to help artificially normalize you until you get the additional level buffs.

The first few times will be quite bloody, yes, but just tailor your work to your ability to impact. Debuffs and buffs are still very effective, just avoid the extra aggro wherever you can.

BTW, with my ill/storm controller, I do pretty well on either trial. Not comparing build strengths here, just that another squish can work the house on these trials without sudden bedlam and destruction.


 

Posted

Just to round things out and re-emphasize... I'm not bothering with the trials on any of my characters until they are done with their alpha slot, which is the rare level for most of them. Being only -3 really helps, versus -4 (and even then, my Blaster without any buddies can get hurt in the Lambda warehouse/lab runs).

Also, be really careful of how you engage your foes... as someone with control powers, make sure you fire those before they can see you: if they see you before you use your mass control, their alpha will still hit you... and that will hurt on any squishy, not matter what you hear the braggarts say in the forums or on channels.

Last but not least, do NOT go it alone, even if you are used to it (at least until you get all your level shifts). For most of the trials, you will be working in a larger group and you may not notice this, but the mobs in these things are designed to at least challenge a group of Incarnate shifted people. You alone are much, much weaker than that, no matter how bad you think you are. Lambda makes this point clear for you, as people tend to race about too much in the warehouse. Running together in groups and attacking crates together is much more helpful than going it alone.

Case in point, my Tank had a harder time on this portion of Lambda, and I was getting annoyed about it. Then he started getting more powers and it was much easier... Diamagnetic's -to hit made a huge difference for his survivability, and then Barrier and level shifts make death much more rare. I still have to make sure not to take on too many mobs at once, though. These things are supposed to be a challenge, so take care with your tactics and work with your team.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turgenev View Post

The level 1 is enough to normalize your level with them. If you do the trial with your alpha unlocked but unslotted, you're still fighting at -8 handicap, instead of the natural -4 differential.

This is untrue. Only the Tin Mage and Apex TF's have Emperor Cole's non incarnate debuff power in them.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by OutaControl View Post
I end up lagging behind everyone to hope someone else might take aggro first.
You're not supposed to take aggro first.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
You're not supposed to take aggro first.
But I have been taking aggro first on my Fire/Rad controller for years!

I must admit, I was a bit surprised at how much more careful I had to be with my Fire/Rad controller. This was the character where I had to make the most adjustments to my normal playing in order to die less when I first started running Lambdas. My Fire/Earth Dom was almost as rough, but had a bit easier time then the controller.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ura Hero View Post
Whee!!!! Stargeek said I could leech! Awesome!




Wait. What's different than any other trial or Task Force???
Yeah, not like anyone would notice the difference (kidding of course).

Maybe leech isn't the best term, since the warehouse and training facility are basically run with little to no experience gain anyway.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by StratoNexus View Post
But I have been taking aggro first on my Fire/Rad controller for years!

I must admit, I was a bit surprised at how much more careful I had to be with my Fire/Rad controller. This was the character where I had to make the most adjustments to my normal playing in order to die less when I first started running Lambdas. My Fire/Earth Dom was almost as rough, but had a bit easier time then the controller.
The first character I starting running trials on was my main, which is a blaster. I've been playing blasters for seven years. Asking me to adjust to content that can kill me at any moment is like asking me to adjust to the fact that the game is in color. I just played the trials like I normally play my blaster on teams, which is to say like I'm the last non-virgin in a horror movie set in the woods.


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Posted

They did not nerf the "B" in Lambda.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailboat View Post
They did not nerf the "B" in Lambda.
Yeah, right, just like they didn't nerf accuracy!


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
The first character I starting running trials on was my main, which is a blaster. I've been playing blasters for seven years. Asking me to adjust to content that can kill me at any moment is like asking me to adjust to the fact that the game is in color. I just played the trials like I normally play my blaster on teams, which is to say like I'm the last non-virgin in a horror movie set in the woods.
Indeed, I also started the trials playing on my blaster. It is likely the reason I did not have to adjust my playstyle on my blaster (which is similar to my controller in some ways) was because the blaster is on my more regular server and I teamed more with people able to support my usual, reckless playstyle. The controller is not and I teamed more often with people who were not as apt to aid or buff. The blaster also has RotP, so even when I messed up, I was not likely to miss much.


Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.