Question: How does Reactive DoT really work?
I've never seen a DoT description say it works that way. Most of them read "X ticks of Y damage each". A fixed number essentially. But I admit I only ever looked at the in-game description and not in a while so my memory could be way off.
"Hmm, I guess I'm not as omniscient as I thought" -Gavin Runeblade.
I can be found, outside of paragon city here.
Thank you everyone at Paragon and on Virtue. When the lights go out in November, you'll find me on Razor Bunny.
As I understand it, most chance for DoT powers will work as such: with an 80% chance, they have an 80% chance for each tick. The first time a tick fails to go off, the effect ends and any further ticks don't even have a chance to happen.
|
Nope, in most cases DoT is a single effect baked into the engine. So the 80% chance is an all-or-nothing rolled when the power hits (like most chance-of effects). For example the chance of Toxic Damage powers in Thorns and Spines work like that, if you make the 80% when the power hits you get all the DoT, if you fail the 80% roll you don't get any of them.
As for Reactive and all the other Interfaces I'm not too sure really. They've been described as being normal procs, which seem to lack the normal 10 second inhibitor every other PROC has, but this doesn't seem to be the case.
I've never seen a DoT description say it works that way. Most of them read "X ticks of Y damage each". A fixed number essentially. But I admit I only ever looked at the in-game description and not in a while so my memory could be way off.
|
Nope, in most cases DoT is a single effect baked into the engine. So the 80% chance is an all-or-nothing rolled when the power hits (like most chance-of effects). For example the chance of Toxic Damage powers in Thorns and Spines work like that, if you make the 80% when the power hits you get all the DoT, if you fail the 80% roll you don't get any of them.
|
Issue 16 made me feel like this.
Warning: This poster likes to play Devil's Advocate.

Nope, in most cases DoT is a single effect baked into the engine. So the 80% chance is an all-or-nothing rolled when the power hits (like most chance-of effects). For example the chance of Toxic Damage powers in Thorns and Spines work like that, if you make the 80% when the power hits you get all the DoT, if you fail the 80% roll you don't get any of them.
As for Reactive and all the other Interfaces I'm not too sure really. They've been described as being normal procs, which seem to lack the normal 10 second inhibitor every other PROC has, but this doesn't seem to be the case. |
As far as I know all DoT powers that say they have a chance of DoT work this way. It is certainly true of the "bonus damage" of both Spines and all Fire sets. Powers that say they do DoT without mentioning a chance don't do this.
The Reactive Interface DoT appears to be a chance to proc with a 100% chance of DoT if it does, rather than a 100% chance to proc applying a chance to do DoT. That is, it doesn't appear to be cancel-on-miss. All Interface procs lack the 10s lockout, but instead have a stack cap of 4 applications of their effect on a given target even if the effects come from different casters.
Kosmos
Global: @Calorie
MA Arcs in 4-star purgatory: Four in a Row (#2198) - Hostile Takeover (#69714) - Red Harvest (#268305)
As I understand it the Reactive proc does not apply a normal DoT at all, but instead grants the target a power that debuffs their resists and/or has a chance to damage them (depending on which Reactive you have slotted). There are stack limits on how many copies of this power a target may have... I've heard four for the -resist portion and possibly five for the DoT (presumably the self-debuff and self-damage are two separate powers).
So if you have a Reactive Partial Radial Conversion, for example (50% DoT chance, 25% debuff chance) then what I believe happens when you hit someone is:
- There is a 25% chance to apply one stack of 2.5% resist debuff, provided the target does not already have four on them. This debuff is in the form of a granted self-debuff power rather than a normal debuff, so it does not scale based on AT modifiers, though it might scale based on level.
- One stack of a self-damage power is granted as long as the target does not already have five (or maybe just four) copies on it. This power has a 50% chance each tick of doing 13.39 fire damage which definitely is adjusted for level difference (but not AT since it's a granted self damage power) and it lasts five ticks. Every hit always applies a stack of this power, unlike normal DoTs... so every time you damage something (including every tick of a rain or damage aura) you always add another copy of the DoT (unless you're at the cap) which then has a 50% chance per tick of actually doing damage. The Reactive DoTs also do not cancel on miss like Fire DoTs so you can miss the first four chances and then see the last tick go off.
Note that this mechanic does limit the usefulness of the low-percentage DoT procs. Since you can only have at most five copies stacked on a target and every hit applies one, if you have one of the 25% chance for DoT Reactives slotted and you use a rain or lots of fast attacks you'll quickly cap out at five stacks of DoT that each have a 25% chance to fire per tick... you do not have a 25% chance per attack to apply a normal DoT (which would make reactive + rains absolutely broken instead of just nice). The big advantage of rain powers is that they get you to that cap fast and keep refreshing copies of the DoT that expire, but you still need a high chance for the damage to go off to make the most of them (which is why I'm going for the 75% DoT / 25% debuff Very Rare).
Cascade, level 50 Blaster (NRG/NRG since before it was cool)
Mechmeister, level 50 Bots / Traps MM
FAR too many non-50 alts to name
[u]Arcs[u]
The Scavenger Hunt: 187076
The Instant Lair Delivery Service: 206636
Stryker's post looks correct to me.
Use the RWZ dummies and monitor both the FX and the Healing Delivered chat log. You can see the DoT will sometimes stop, but then start up again. I always thought the listed percentage was the chance that the enemy received the temp power. Now I am guessing the temp power always is granted to the enemy. Interesting. The Temp Power is also granted pretty fast, if the first tick hits, it actually beats out the landing of damage of my actual power.
So is it possible to stack these significantly more than I have been thinking? For example, each different reactive can stack mutliple times, so if I have Reactive Total Radial and you have Reactive Partial Radial, the enemy could have 4 of mine stacked AND 4 of yours? Is it possible to get more than a 10% resistance debuff going from Reactive if people have a variety of the Reactive levels of power?
Reactive also is a bit odd when you check out the detailed power information. All the other Interface procs only grant one power. Most of the Reactives grant 2 powers, but the ones that just add the debuff only grant 1 power. All the others, also seem to grant the common tier power as well as their own power.
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
Note that this mechanic does limit the usefulness of the low-percentage DoT procs. Since you can only have at most five copies stacked on a target and every hit applies one, if you have one of the 25% chance for DoT Reactives slotted and you use a rain or lots of fast attacks you'll quickly cap out at five stacks of DoT that each have a 25% chance to fire per tick... you do not have a 25% chance per attack to apply a normal DoT (which would make reactive + rains absolutely broken instead of just nice). The big advantage of rain powers is that they get you to that cap fast and keep refreshing copies of the DoT that expire, but you still need a high chance for the damage to go off to make the most of them (which is why I'm going for the 75% DoT / 25% debuff Very Rare).
|
Have you used a rain with a tier 3 reactive in it? the 50% fire dmg/ 25% minus dmg res
It is broken, Ihave a fire blaster with rain of fire and what is normally just ticks of 3-4 turns into tick of 3-4 plus tick of 11-12. These ticks continue threw the whole power and as far as I can tell there is no cap on it. Rain of fire is essentially a nuke right now. Broken in the most literal sense of the word. I just wonder when or if it will get fixed.
Kosmos
Global: @Calorie
MA Arcs in 4-star purgatory: Four in a Row (#2198) - Hostile Takeover (#69714) - Red Harvest (#268305)
It is broken, Ihave a fire blaster with rain of fire and what is normally just ticks of 3-4 turns into tick of 3-4 plus tick of 11-12. These ticks continue threw the whole power and as far as I can tell there is no cap on it. Rain of fire is essentially a nuke right now. Broken in the most literal sense of the word. I just wonder when or if it will get fixed.
|
I'm still not convinced it won't get looked at again eventually, but apparently for now we can expect it to work as it does currently at least for some time to come.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Apparently, according to the ustream broadcast during the server list merge maintenance, Reactive is working as intended. They know it's (very) powerful, and intend it to be.
I'm still not convinced it won't get looked at again eventually, but apparently for now we can expect it to work as it does currently at least for some time to come. |
This indicates a logic disconnect to me right here. Should incarnate powers be very powerful? Absolutely. Where the logic-fail crops up for me is where one Interface power clearly outstrips the usefulness of the rest of them in terms of overall effectiveness.
If Reactive is supposed to be how the Interfaces are supposed to be power-level wise then the other three need something done with them because as-is they're far, far behind in terms of effectiveness. Give them damage procs which do 50% of Reactives damage would close the gap IMO.
So is it possible to stack these significantly more than I have been thinking? For example, each different reactive can stack mutliple times, so if I have Reactive Total Radial and you have Reactive Partial Radial, the enemy could have 4 of mine stacked AND 4 of yours? Is it possible to get more than a 10% resistance debuff going from Reactive if people have a variety of the Reactive levels of power?
|
I think the only way to figure that out currently is to do things we aren't supposed to be doing in terms of our clients. If, indeed, each tier of any of the Interface procs has its own version of the temp power, based on understanding of prior mechanics, they would stack together. A target could have four Rare and four Very Rare versions of the temp power stacked, if they were actually different powers.
That assumes some new cross-power stacking limit wasn't implemented just for this purpose.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
If Reactive is supposed to be how the Interfaces are supposed to be power-level wise then the other three need something done with them because as-is they're far, far behind in terms of effectiveness. Give them damage procs which do 50% of Reactives damage would close the gap IMO.
|
I'm not sure I would add damage to the other procs, but if I didn't, I'd sure make their effects stronger.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
That same line of thought is being posted in a few places since the broadcast.
I'm not sure I would add damage to the other procs, but if I didn't, I'd sure make their effects stronger. |
The 'easiest' thing to do would be to make the effects from the other 3, except for -dam, be non-resistible. That way they'd be more appealing in different situations (vs AVs or fighting +4s)
Just an aside on that: Being non-resistible doesn't apply to higher-level foes. You can't bypass the "purple patch" with the non-resist flag. In any case, the purple patch doesn't even apply to Reactive effects (or things like Achilles Heel), because they are cast by the critter on itself. So they already bypass the purple patch anyhow.
The non-resist flag would make these effects stronger against AVs and GMs. I wouldn't turn my nose up on that, but in general play, I'm not sure it would really make any of the debuffs more attractive than Reactive.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Just an aside on that: Being non-resistible doesn't apply to higher-level foes. You can't bypass the "purple patch" with the non-resist flag. In any case, the purple patch doesn't even apply to Reactive effects (or things like Achilles Heel), because they are cast by the critter on itself. So they already bypass the purple patch anyhow.
The non-resist flag would make these effects stronger against AVs and GMs. I wouldn't turn my nose up on that, but in general play, I'm not sure it would really make any of the debuffs more attractive than Reactive. |
Ooh, didn't realise that. That makes my proposal less attractive, a flat out numbers buff would be better then.
It also dents the attractiveness of Smoke Grenade on my Widow

Arc#314490: Zombie Ninja Pirates!
Defiant @Grouchybeast
Death is part of my attack chain.
Apparently, according to the ustream broadcast during the server list merge maintenance, Reactive is working as intended. They know it's (very) powerful, and intend it to be.
I'm still not convinced it won't get looked at again eventually, but apparently for now we can expect it to work as it does currently at least for some time to come. |
Its pretty crazy the damage this toon does aoe.
When something good happens to me, I can never enjoy it....
I am always too busy looking for the inevitable punchline...
BEHOLD THE POWER OF CHEESE!
Just an aside on that: Being non-resistible doesn't apply to higher-level foes. You can't bypass the "purple patch" with the non-resist flag. In any case, the purple patch doesn't even apply to Reactive effects (or things like Achilles Heel), because they are cast by the critter on itself. So they already bypass the purple patch anyhow.
The non-resist flag would make these effects stronger against AVs and GMs. I wouldn't turn my nose up on that, but in general play, I'm not sure it would really make any of the debuffs more attractive than Reactive. |
COH has just been murdered by NCSoft. http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes
My understanding is that the Interface proc is actually granting a temp power to the target and the target is actually affecting itself. In that case the purple patch does not apply as the "caster" is actually the target so it's treated as affecting an even level foe.
|
"I have ridden the mighty moon worm!"
-Al Gore
Fiery Aura is only good for farming, I'm cereal
@Caucasiafro
The damage for the reactive does scale to level. I am not sure how the mechanics behind the power function to make this happen though.
On an even con lvl 51 Chief Soldier, the proc damage is 13.38 per/tick.
On a +3 lvl 54 Chief Soldier, the proc damage is 8.69/tick.
On a -11 lvl 40 Chief Soldier, the proc damage is 29.44/tick.
Those numbers are consistent with the purple patch. As far as I know, only the damage portion of Reactive is treated this way, but I have not used a Power Analyzer to check the values of the other debuffs vs. various levels of enemies and I am going from hearsay.
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
Apparently, according to the ustream broadcast during the server list merge maintenance, Reactive is working as intended. They know it's (very) powerful, and intend it to be.
I'm still not convinced it won't get looked at again eventually, but apparently for now we can expect it to work as it does currently at least for some time to come. |
Draggynn on Virtue: lvl 50 Storm/Psi, 1389 badges
Draggynn's Guide to Storm Summoning(Gale-Tornado, updated 6/25/2011)
Avatar by Wassy full reference here
So what is 'better' to have in the Reactive interface slot, higher chance for the debuff or the higher chance for the DoT?
Looking at the reactive int. for my DA/DM Tanker.
Leader of The LEGION/Fallen LEGION on the Liberty server!
SSBB FC: 2062-8881-3944
MKW FC: 4167-4891-5991
As I understand it, most chance for DoT powers will work as such: with an 80% chance, they have an 80% chance for each tick. The first time a tick fails to go off, the effect ends and any further ticks don't even have a chance to happen.
However, it looks to me that the Reactive DoT doesn't work that way. I've seen an enemy hit only once take a tick of damage, then when the next tick would happen, nothing occurs and the flame graphic vanishes. But then another tick occurs and the flame graphic reappears.
Does the Reactive DoT actually have a 100% chance to hit, with then a X% chance for the damage to actually occur, bypassing the normal DoT rule?
Issue 16 made me feel like this.
Warning: This poster likes to play Devil's Advocate.