DoT and Procs

Great post and excellent closing quote. If Interface procs in rains and other fast dots are WAI, then the Incarnante balance point to include them will be such that not having those powers will bar access to Incarnate content. Character power selection for Incarnante content will come down to how many fast dots can I stack in my character, making the rest of my attacks mostly pointless. And if your AT or powersets do not have access to fast dots, then you are SOL for Incaranate content.

That's bad game design.

Not necessarily broken, just working better than most other powers with Interface slotted.

Chances are the spawns on the wall are 50, mostly conning blue to the player because of the level shift. Factor in scourge (in the case of my Fire/Dark corr), and it makes total sense.

The entire point of Incarnate powers is to become more powerful than you were before. Now if that spawn conned orange or purple and RoF killed off the group, then I'd consider it broken.

Yes and no. The game is about fun; until someone sees you having more fun than them.

AVs resist at least 85% of most of the effects, with the exceptions of the DoT, -resist and -damage.



Basically other than those 3 effects Interface is laughable on AVs due to the Purple Triangles of Doom.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but there are no bosses on the wall in Cimerora right? Sleet will take out all on a +4x8. Ice Storm will do the same. No Scourge involved in those cases.

Yes, actually, there are bosses on the Cim wall. They're rare to come by though, and I find they're mostly doing the patrols up along the top.

Sleet also has it's own inherent -Res which stacks with the Interface proc. RoF and Ice Storm do not.

So let's say Sleet is over powered for with the proc, if it's adjusted then what becomes of RoF and Ice Storm? Also, mobs differ, so if someone can kill an entire +4 Cimeroa mob with Sleet can they do the same with an entire +4 Praetorian mob?

As said earlier, Incarnate powers are supposed to make your character more powerful than before. Now that they are powerful, there seems to be a problem for some.

The chief problem is that of 4 choices available to you one is currently head and shoulders above the rest of them, which is poor design

Plus it's also introduced some corner cases along the lines of what Poison Trap used to do with PROCs in it due to the way the power and the proc interact.

You get no argument from me on that one.

I honestly don't even understand why they have -recovery and end drain in the game when NPCs can attack with the slightest sliver of endurance.

Instead of looking into Reactive Interface, they need to look into the other three and bring them to line, or add to the effects with other "chance for" effects.

Gravitic= Ice DoT
Diamagnetic= NegEn DoT
Paralytic = Smashing DoT

Sleet does a -30% res debuff, so the proc does roughly 30% more damage than with RoF/IS.

Rains tick 5 times per second, so the proc does 1000% more damage than with auras (1 tick per 2 seconds), 500-24000% more damage than with a ST attack (animations ranging from 1s to 3s, targets hit by the rain ranging from 1 to 16), or 500-1500% more damage than with AoEs (assuming you've got a nonstop AoE chain).

If you want to argue a difference of 30% makes one power OP while in the same breath saying a difference of 24000% is completely fine... Knock yourself out.

Sleet delivers 24.75 base damage and a 30% RES debuff. Almost no one bothers to slot it for damage, but for the sake of argument, let's say it is slotted for damage: 24.75 * 1.95 = 48.3 damage from the power itself.

Rain of Fire delivers 126.25 base damage. Slotted to the ED cap for damage, it goes up to 126.25 * 1.95 = 246.2 damage from the power itself.

Ice Storm delivers 117 base damage. Slotted to the ED cap, it goes up to 117 * 1.95 = 228.2 damage from the power itself.

Your argument, in effect, is that 30% of the Rain-delivered Reactive DoT, alone, is significantly more valuable than what is, at best, a ~180 damage disadvantage for Sleet.

That in itself is an indictment of the way these powers work with Reactive. You're conceding that Reactive delivers well more than 600 damage on its own (180 / 0.3 = 600). Do you honestly believe that an Incarnate ability designed to add a DoT effect to all of your attacks is supposed to deliver 600+ damage over that short a period to so many targets?

Keep in mind that Judgement nukes weigh in at around 430 damage. Also keep in mind that Rains can be available anywhere from 3 to 5 times more often than Judgement.

Again, the problem isn't that Reactive makes characters more powerful. The problem is that it makes some builds vastly more powerful than it does others, and for no good reason. Hell, if there were some other way to guarantee full-time saturation of the Reactive DoT effect, Rains would be superfluous -- perhaps even more superfluous than other attacks, because they take time to deliver their damage. Would that be okay with you, or are you just hung up on the fact that your character (to use your phrase) has a Rain power?

Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze Nice build

Some people have more fun making costumes for their character than I do playing my Defender. Nerf costume creator!

Sadly, this is how some people think.

No I'm hung up on the fact that Incarnate powers are SUPPOSED to make your characters more powerful, now that they are, there seems to be a problem with it for some players. Yet if the Reactive set was as subpar as the others, I suspect the argument from players would be that they don't feel "super" enough.

Noooo my argument is that the stacking -res is what makes Sleet "over powered" compared to RoF or Ice Storm

The fact that the DoT doesn't seem to have the same stacking limiter as all other Reactive effects is actually almost certainly broken. It is the stacking limiter that moderates what the Reactive power can do, regardless of how fast or slow you use it. Somehow the DoT escaped that limit.

Extraordinarily unresponsive. The Reactive Interface proc arbitrarily makes characters with Rain powers massively more powerful than others. Do you understand that? Do you care? We don't know, because you refuse to respond on that point; instead, you prefer to prop up and then knock down the alleged position of some nameless "others."

30% is the amount of the -RES, dude. Once again, unresponsive.

Enjoy conversing with yourself.

Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze Nice build

Do you have any info to suggest that the stacking limit is bypassed by Rain powers? I'm honestly curious, because that was my first thought when I heard how powerful Reactive Rains were -- but then I figured the DoT is just that powerful, assuming you can keep it fully saturated full-time.

In other words, I think that the Reactive DoT was designed not to be fully stackable by a solo player as a matter of course. The fact that each DoT tick has a 20% to fail tends to prop up that assumption; in rains, that chance of the DoT's premature ending is functionally irrelevant because the proc itself is checked so often that it's going to refresh almost immediately regardless.

Just going by very rough numbers, fully stacked Reactive delivers ~13 damage * 6 DoTs * 8 ticks = 624 damage. That's pretty crazy, until you realize that your chance of seeing any individual DoT last its full duration is something like 0.8 ^ 7 = 20.9%, and that's assuming you roll successfully on the initial 75% chance to proc.

So TL;DR, I'm not sure the stack limit has to be broken for Reactive Rains to break balance. If the stack limit is broken, then that's even more troubling.

Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze Nice build

Yes I understand that. Since you ask if I care, I guess I don't because I also understand sometimes you get powers that are just better than others. Them be the breaks.

That is my opinion. Your entitled to yours. You just don't have to be a condescending jerk when making yours.

Sadly it's true as evident by some posts here. Instead of inquiring about bringing the other Interface powers in-line by way of upgrade to make them more useful and appealing, they want the Reactive Interface downgraded because of how it acts with 3-4 out of the hundreds of powers in the game.

You would have received less condescension if you'd responded to what was written, rather than sticking your fingers in your ears and exclaiming (yet again) that "some people" just don't like fun, or being powerful.

Near as I can tell, the only thing that some people object to is the idea that Rain powers are suddenly the alpha and omega of offense in the game. You're entitled to think that somehow your selecting a rain-equipped power set should give you a ridiculously large advantage, but you haven't even tried to justify that view with reasoned argument.

Saying simply that some powers are better than others is a cop out, once again ignoring the sheer extent of the advantage in question, which several people in this thread have gone to some trouble to describe, and which you've gone to absolutely no trouble to wave away. We even have an example within the very same Incarnate system to look to for a dev-approved standard of AoE damage -- Judgement, which by your own logic delivers less damage than rain-delivered Reactive -- and yet you continue to spew meaningless platitudes, "Some people are just such miserable nerf advocates!"

Your right to express an opinion guarantees the right of others to criticize your opinion. Flippancy and distortion deserve to be met with condescension.

Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze Nice build

Uh, shouldn't Gravitic be smashing and Paralytic be electric-energy?

A couple things I think I have figured out about Reactive. None of my tests are exhaustive enough to call conclusive, but the indication is strong enough that I am not embarrassed to post my beliefs. The testing was done with an Emp/Ice defender who has the 25% chance for debuff/50% chance for DoT proc, BIB was set to auto on a dummy in the RWZ. Also used was a Rad/Pistols defender who has the 75% chance for DoT proc, Executioner's Shot set to auto on a Dummy in the RWZ.

1. The DoT will not end prematurely. These are not cancel on miss DoTs. The DoT can stop and then start up again. So tick 1 and 2 can activate, tick 3 fails, then tick 4 and 5 can activate.

2. I believe each application has a maximum potential of 5 ticks.

3. The percent chance is the chance rolled for each tick, not the chance the for the power to proc at all. If your attack hits the temp power is always granted to the target. My Rad defender has a significant advantage in number of ticks that hit and I only had one time where no reactive damage occurred.

I have a Demon/Storm with the 75% chance. I will try to compare his Freezing Rain to my Emp/Ice defender's Ice Storm (in normal play they both obliterate +2 minions and Lts. the Freezing Rain works slightly better since it has KD).