Buff the strongest or the weakest?


Adeon Hawkwood

 

Posted

Given a large team(like the new trials) and a limited time window for buffing who do you buff first? buffing the weaker players keeps them safe but makes things go slow, buffing the stronger players makes things go faster but you may have people dieing.

whats your philosophy?


 

Posted

Given the fact that everything is capped in this game buffing the strongest will most likely do nothing for them. Always buff the weakest.


 

Posted

"Strongest" and "Weakest" doesn't mean a lot to me. This is the logic I use when playing my Empath, in order of importance:

1. Is the ally generating a lot of aggro and is having trouble keeping his HP bar up? If so, buff for survivability.

2. Does the ally have trouble keeping his endurance bar up? If so, buff for +recovery.

3. Does the ally have powerful burst damage? If so, buff for +recharge.

4. Does the ally have a lot of base damage? If so, buff for +damage.


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Posted

Dead people = less of everything overall. Trials on timers really could do with people who aren't running back from hospital or waiting for a res.

Alot of people act like getting defeated is something that just happens or has to happen but it is bull.


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Posted

Depends on the buffs and the situation, for me I will CM those with no mez protection inherent and skip tanks and scrappers, the Fort to Blasters if damage is needed or toons having trouble staying alive for the def or if I am on a team with lowbies i will fort them for +tohit, AB to those having end issues or to the dps toons, shields & sb i try to get on as many as possible, +hp on MM, fender, trollers and blasters (if i have time I check to see if they are HP cap'd. It's very situational for me.



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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Auroxis View Post
3. Does the ally have powerful burst damage? If so, buff for +recharge.
Personally I'd amend that to "or strong buffs/debuffs on a long timer", often times buffing the recharge of another support AT will provide more benefit than buffing the recharge of a damage dealer.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood View Post
Personally I'd amend that to "or strong buffs/debuffs on a long timer", often times buffing the recharge of another support AT will provide more benefit than buffing the recharge of a damage dealer.
True, especially so for debuffers like Traps and Cold in AV fights.

Putting AB on the buffer I'm not too keen about, but it depends on how survivable the team is. I'll more often AB the Elec/Shield than the Empath.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by _Klaw_ View Post
Given the fact that everything is capped in this game
Overstate much?


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amy_Amp View Post
Overstate much?
He has a point, for things like +hp buffs or even defense/resistance in some cases alot of builds can self cap with IOs and all the new incarnate slots. Recharge, damage, recovery are things most people will gladly accept if offered even if they have a fair amount already.

I normally buff the strongest just so they know that they can go all out offensive safely. In the long run its better if the weaker realize they are weaker and scale down while the stronger handle the workload. We are not babysitters, afterall.


 

Posted

In some cases doesn't mean everything. Just because so many people talk about being soft capped on the forum doesn't mean the player base as a whole is. None of my characters are soft capped although my Kat/sr will be once I get him IOed out. I would say a few of my characters will be soft capped and those are the ones it's easy to do.

I buff whoever needs it. A blaster with hover and mostly ST attacks isn't going to need much help. A Fire tank on the other hand very likely will need some help.


 

Posted

When playing my support characters (as in buffers, my debuffs pretty much solo entire groups on their own already) i usually buff the weakest link, be it a squishy blaster (who will always get my cold shields, or fort first) or the other controller (who may or may not be actively buffing me)

Basically whoever is playing yo yo with thier HP bar the most is my priority for buffs, as i feel healing is about the worst way to keep someone alive, unless your dealing with unresistable/autohit damage types (ITF nictus, i'm looking at you, as well as NOVA FIST!)


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by New Dawn View Post
Dead people = less of everything overall. Trials on timers really could do with people who aren't running back from hospital or waiting for a res.
Pretty much this in most cases. Situationally, I'll buff for different needs, but in general, having the whole team there working together is going to trump having 2 or 3 there buffed, especially as there is a good chance they may not benefit much from a buff, due to cap situations.


 

Posted

On my Cold/Ice I usually just turn everyone into Popsicles. Starting with whatever tanker/brute/scrapper has aggro. Frostworks I usually don't bother with unless I see a tanker/brute/scrapper getting beat down by an AV and the HP can help.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amy_Amp View Post
Overstate much?


 

Posted

The rule of thumb that should be used is, check your team (or league) mate's notes info, if the global is @hedgefund, then all buffs should be directed to that particular toon.


Global = Hedgefund (or some derivation thereof)

 

Posted

Generally, I'll aim for the strongest. Being weak in this game is more often than not an issue of playstyle rather than build, and improving someone's defense or damage isn't going to turn him into a better player.

To look at it another way, buffs are force multiplier. I'd rather multiply a ten than a two.

However, in situations in which the team is already steamrolling (which is, let's face it, often), I'll buff the weakest. Might as well improve their experience and let them have some fun.


 

Posted

Right now, there are only three defender buffs which you have to think about who to give them to. Forge and Painbringer will also be tricky, if and when we get those powersets.

Fortitude: The Swiss Army buff. Often there's "that one guy" on your team who's dealing a lot of AoE damage and/or debuffs, and taking more aggro than he can handle. Hopefully "that one guy" is not you. Fort him. Alternatively, if you can tell someone is holding back on AoE damage and/or debuffs for fear of taking more aggro than he can handle, again, Fort him. If you still have Forts left over, and hopefully you do, Fort other AoE damage dealers in general, to get the most leverage out of the +damage buff.

Adrenalin Boost: Look for awesome powers on long recharge timers. This will often be buffs and debuffs (chain Freezing Rain? yes please), but nukes and mininukes also qualify. AB whoever has such a power.

Frostworks: Preference goes to low HP teammates who aren't near their HP cap, to help protect against lucky shots. This means controllers & dominators, defenders & corrupters, masterminds and unlockable ATs. If you have Frostworks left over, brutes, tankers, and scrappers can also benefit. Don't bother with blasters or stalkers due to their useless HP cap (+33%, easily self-capped with accolades and set bonuses).

Interestingly, if you could self-buff with these powers, and you're playing both your powersets well, you'd almost always be the ideal candidate for your own buffs. Something to think about when teaming with fellow defenders. Wink wink. Nudge.


 

Posted

Forge you put on the damage dealers like Scrappers, Blasters, Doms, etc. People with high base damage. Painbringer you generally want to do the same, but with the consideration of squishiness since it gives a hefty regen buff too.

Fortitude is kinda one of those powers, except you can quite easily put it on several people. So you can put it on squishy people for the defense and put it on damage dealers for the +dam and +tohit.

Adrenaline Boost is more tricky. The recharge bonus is stupidly huge so as you say Rigel, putting it on people with long recharges is great. But it also confers huge +regen and +recovery, which might be better used elsewhere. Really, the only way you can go really wrong with AB is not using it as much as possible. I see a lot of Empaths only use it when people nuke and crash their endurance bars. Makes me sad.


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Posted

Strongest - Clear Mind when you need it.
Weakest - Clean Mind when you don't.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nihilii View Post
Generally, I'll aim for the strongest. Being weak in this game is more often than not an issue of playstyle rather than build, and improving someone's defense or damage isn't going to turn him into a better player.

To look at it another way, buffs are force multiplier. I'd rather multiply a ten than a two.

However, in situations in which the team is already steamrolling (which is, let's face it, often), I'll buff the weakest. Might as well improve their experience and let them have some fun.
I tend to agree with this line of thinking.

One buff noone seems to mention is fulcrum shift/heatloss. I often see casters move into melee to use these powers just to maximize their own buff when there are several people at range that could have used the pbaoe buff portion. Its short sighted since one person benefits while sometimes several get nothing.


 

Posted

The biggest buff for Heat Loss and Fulcrum Shift is always in the middle of the mob. If someone wants to get the buff, they should get used to moving in.

Staying in the backline with FS/HL means the caster and the people around them all get a mediocre buff, whereas they could move in and all get an awesome buff. Cold has ally shields and a +hp power to help people survive running into melee, Kin debuffs damage and has a huge AoE heal in melee range too.


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Posted

If I'm on a toon with a fast recharging buff type power (shields, SB) I usually try to buff everyone on the league as we're waiting for the AV to be pulled (BAF) or Fighting the EB (Lambda). Then rebuff before the final big fight. Otherwise, it just depends on the team, builds, and the players themselves. Someone having trouble keeping their HP bar up, they get Fortitude (maybe even PBU + Fort if I'm feeling generous enough lol). CM will be cast on any squishy I see in my way. AB goes for the people with the most aggro normally. Stuff like that.


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Posted

Some buffs are egalitarian. You can put shields on everyone on the team and I generally do so by running down the team list.

Other buffs with longer recharge can only cover one or a few so you have to prioritize. I want to get the most bang for the buck out of the buff so I'll try to do what others have said: fortitude on blasters, clear mind on squishies, etc. I also buff players I know will make good use of it over others I know won't or I'm unsure.

But sometimes you realize that your team's blaster can take care of himself but that defender over there is always missing half a health bar. Buffing "the strongest" might be a waste if they are already capped or can function at a high level without your buff.

Then there are those other players that just can't seem to stay alive even if you buff them to hell and back. It's a waste to buff someone who isn't going to survive as long as the buff. So you can't always just buff the weakest.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Solo_One View Post
Given a large team(like the new trials) and a limited time window for buffing who do you buff first? buffing the weaker players keeps them safe but makes things go slow, buffing the stronger players makes things go faster but you may have people dieing.

whats your philosophy?
On leagues with my FF/DP, I tend to bubble the aggro grabbers. After that, I just keep an eye on the league window to see if anyone else is taking damage. If they are, I send a couple bubbles their way. Once they're covered, I attack as much as possible until I see someone else who needs them or they need to be refreshed. If you're not taking damage, then you don't need the extra protection.

On teams, I bubble everyone I can get to. I just run down the team list and hit everyone, then refresh a little bit before they start blinking. I could probably be a bit more lax here, but keeping it simple and routine makes sure I don't lapse coverage and that people can wander into trouble without consequences.