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Multi-team content. And while I'm aware one of them can be run with as few as 8 people, it has room for multiple teams, which makes it qualify.|
Originally Posted by Zombie Man
So, what's your definition of a Raid, then?
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There is no functional distinction between Trials and TFs, and there hasn't been one for quite some time, unless you want specify failable missions.
Once upon a time, a "Trial" was just a mission that could be taken by a single player, but which was so hard that it took many people to complete. That's when the Hydra Trial was in its heyday. This changed with the introduction of the hero Respec Trial as someone on the development team woke up and realised that "just a mission" is a terrible way to set up a team for a failable objective. Henceforth, all "Trials" were nothing more than TFs, as evidenced by the fact that they put you in Task Force mode.
You can try and draw distinctions based on content design within the TF system, but that's like trying to draw distinctions based on content in regular missions. They could be defeat-all, timed, part of an arc and so forth, but they are still missions. A TF is a TF is a TF. Unless you break the TF mould and involve more teams, there's no reason to call it anything else.
What you call the Incarnate raids is irrelevant. Raids, Trials, Friends With Benefits, it doesn't change what they are. A rose by any other name, as it were.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I'm banking on this. From a business standpoint, they were wise to first release the content that would involve the most people at any one time. I can be patient as long as that patience will pay off in the end. As with many others, I simply don't want to be left in the dust. I don't mind if most of my characters are not Sons of Krypton, in fact, I prefer them to have certain flaws. I just hope that when the day comes that Tyrant gives himself to the Well (or some similar event involving Rularuu, the Rikti, etc.), that my characters will be able to provide more help than "civilian crowd control."
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Originally Posted by Dante
On the bright side, there may well be Incarnate story arcs and repeatable missions coming so I'll just spend my time leveling alts until that happens.
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@Winter. Because I'm Winter. Period.
I am a blaster first, and an alt-oholic second.
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You said it better than I did above - agreed completely.|
Originally Posted by Winterminal
I'm banking on this. From a business standpoint, they were wise to first release the content that would involve the most people at any one time. I can be patient as long as that patience will pay off in the end. As with many others, I simply don't want to be left in the dust. I don't mind if most of my characters are not Sons of Krypton, in fact, I prefer them to have certain flaws. I just hope that when the day comes that Tyrant gives himself to the Well (or some similar event involving Rularuu, the Rikti, etc.), that my characters will be able to provide more help than "civilian crowd control."
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And I was aware that GG is usually correct about the future direction of the game - that's what has me so glum due to her posts about "needing 3+ level shifts" for the future.
Altoholic - but a Blaster at Heart!
Originally Posted by SpyralPegacyon
"You gave us a world where we could fly. I can't thank you enough for that."
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It would be more akin to a raid than a trial or task force then, yes. I'd expect the content inside to be adjusted to be appropriate for the higher potential team sizes. |
Originally Posted by Zombie Man
So, by your definition of a raid, if they took the Eden Trial, removed the DE hunt, allowed a second team, and made it a choice on the TuT; then it would no longer be a Trial, but a Raid?
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Also, ZM, I do owe you an apology. You irritated me far more than this discussion should have, and I reacted poorly. (Let's just leave it as "there were other things going on that had nothing to do with you.") I've been snapping at you and shouldn't have.
... well, mostly.
In any case, my behaviour towards you here has been less than stellar, and I do apologize for it.
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So far, we've had 5 slots, with one universel level shift and 2 Trial level shifts - so it's quite possible that the next 5 slots will also add another universal shift, and 1 or more Trial shifts - and combined with the massive power boosts the actual powers give us, we're simply going to be too powerful for any kind of non-Incarnate content.|
Originally Posted by Ad Astra
And I was aware that GG is usually correct about the future direction of the game - that's what has me so glum due to her posts about "needing 3+ level shifts" for the future.
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The current 2 Trials are already pretty easy with the 3 available shift we have now, so we're going to need tougher content to match our increased power.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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<<hugs Memphis_Bill>>|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Also, ZM, I do owe you an apology. You irritated me far more than this discussion should have, and I reacted poorly. (Let's just leave it as "there were other things going on that had nothing to do with you.") I've been snapping at you and shouldn't have.
... well, mostly. In any case, my behaviour towards you here has been less than stellar, and I do apologize for it. |
I shouldn't have egged you on when that happened. My apologies, too.
Let's never fight again. Let's remember who are real enemies are... the Devs!*
*Just kidding!
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| It would be more akin to a raid than a trial or task force then, yes. I'd expect the content inside to be adjusted to be appropriate for the higher potential team sizes. |
I just don't want what we have to be painted with the broad brush of "Raiding System" which evokes the worst of WoW's heyday of Raids, which itself has transformed over time.
I'd be just as happy as calling them all just one thing, whether it be Raid, Trial, or Task Force and then specifying whether they're single or multi-teamed and whether they're open zone or instanced. All the other signifiers such as contacts or timed or special rewards are, IMO, mostly insignificant to the 'type' of event it is mechanically.
Speeding Through New DA Repeatables || Spreadsheet o' Enhancements || Zombie Skins: better skins for these forums || Guide to Guides
I've taken part in raids is most MMOs I've played before so I do like raids for the most part. While I don't particularly enjoy large scale (50-100+ EQ style) raids due to its chaotic *human wave* nature and mind numbing tactics (all healers chain heal main tank, everyone else bash away), I do enjoy smaller raids (DDO style) where coordination and tactics is actually possible or required. In fact, the raids I led/participated in DDO involves more strategic execution than anything I've experienced thus far and these new CoX raids/trials actually remind me a bit of that.
As long as CoX raids do not grow into 5 or 6 team monstrosities (an impossibility right now given performance/lag issues) and continue to involve strategic elements/objectives, I'm all for it.
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The league UI allows for 6 full teams of 8 |
Originally Posted by baron_inferno
As long as CoX raids do not grow into 5 or 6 team monstrosities
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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I know :P |
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
The league UI allows for 6 full teams of 8
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I just can't imagine raids ever getting that big though. Imagine BAF runner phase with 40-48 players. 20 prisoners would escape before anyone can even activate their power once. That or mapserv.
As for the staging ground, the trials you did try were apparently led by someone who wasn't very good at leading. That stoop in front of the BAF? That could be your "staging ground" - where the league leader breaks down the roles and expectations.
Or, those points could be discussed prior to entering the queue.
The only real problem I have with the trials is that there are just two of them. Less than a month, and they're already boring - and I still have about a zillion more 50's to get their slots unlocked and filled.
Just my two inf.
"Most people that have no idea what they are doing have no idea that they don't know what they are doing." - John Cleese
@Ukase
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Yes, the devs need to take a good, long look at what's going on server and network side before committing to more multi team raids. It's rather irritating when I have a power I know full well should be recharged NOT be. (Ice slick is a prime example. I can keep that going - I should never be seeing "Power not recharged" when the old slick expires... or has been gone for 30 sec or so.) |
Originally Posted by baron_inferno
I know :P
I just can't imagine raids ever getting that big though. Imagine BAF runner phase with 40-48 players. 20 prisoners would escape before anyone can even activate their power once. That or mapserv. |
While it's something that would likely not really be caught in beta, given server differences, it's not like it's a new phenomenon - years of Hami and Mothership raids, as well as Rikti and zombie invasions, have had this same issue.
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Lets not forget ITF too. Thanks to lag valley on the third mission that's the first thing I think of when someone mentions server-side lag.
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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
While it's something that would likely not really be caught in beta, given server differences, it's not like it's a new phenomenon - years of Hami and Mothership raids, as well as Rikti and zombie invasions, have had this same issue.
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Honestly I have to say that I don't mind the raids, though my first few runs were quite frustrating. Now that strategies have emerged and incarnate levels have increased the Trials are becoming easier, much like the high level TF's.
That said, I have to admit that I would much prefer gaining incarnate levels through story arc content. The trials are proving themselves *very* grinding and seem very disconnected to any storyline. The idea of "I've stpped the 80th attempt of the Preators to release these mindwashed into society so the well has granted me the ability to...." just doesn't seem to fit in with a story driven power increase.
What I think the best route to go is to offer a story arc for gaining each of the incarnate powers (much like the Alpha slot) and then use the Trials as just that, trials that require the use of the newly aquired powers.
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This has always been my thought: Give a relatively easy access to the basic powers, but then gate their upgraded versions behind raid grind, as is the norm. This would follow existing loot rules, where Common inventions can be bought off the rack, uncommons and rares can only drop and very rares (Purples) are just that - very rare and very expensive to get from other players.|
Originally Posted by Phewmite
What I think the best route to go is to offer a story arc for gaining each of the incarnate powers (much like the Alpha slot) and then use the Trials as just that, trials that require the use of the newly aquired powers.
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However, that would indeed require the introduction of these mythical Incarnate story arcs, and like the 5th Column return, I'll believe that when I see it. And like the 5th Column return, I'll eventually be proven wrong. I just hope it's not five years from now.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Run the BAF about 10 times now, but I've only been on one failure, and that was my first. Lambda only once, but that's because I'm still studying that map and haven't made time to run it again. Succeeded on it, too, though that was a close one.
I haven't used the LFG to get into a raid. Heard too much about that to know to avoid it - and experience with the WoW version has made me violently allergic to it for raiding. 
Every raid I've been in has started in RWZ - just go and hang out in front of Lady Grey and you'll see "league starting!" offers either in Broadcast or the server's TF channels. (Virtue here. Never noticed one start in Pocket D, but people have said they're there too).
And always, ALWAYS, the League leader has gone through the tactics they want to use before starting. It'd be a disaster otherwise if we didn't know 'door or chokepoints?' or 'are we pulling to the tennis court?' in the BAF. For the Lambda, our leader linked the map he was using, which was a great help, and gave us a couple of minutes to study it.
Currently playing:
The Domestic: Broom/WP
Shadowhex: Dark Control/Dark Affinity
Defenestration Lass: Grav/Kin
"See, this is what happens when you have to shove all this stuff into your pockets: it's easy to misplace a suborbital warhead." -Arcanaville, on how crowded our power trays are getting lately
I guess I'll clarify.
1. A Raid, the way I use the word, is a Mission, Trial, Taskforce, Strikeforce or other game activity where-in multiple teams or player groups participate in the same objective/map being said Mission, Trial, Taskforce, Strikeforce or other game activity.
2. Why I don't like Raids
a--too chaotic--> most teams run through missions as fast as possible, it's impossible to enjoy the story. People who are familiar with the mission run off and do their thing leaving those who don't to wander around clueless. It's hard to get people to actully do what they're supposed to, and there's somebody who inevitably does the wrong thing and generates a team wipe.
b--Leadership issues-->usually the leader makes or breaks the team. Pickup groups are particularly bad this way. Often only the leader gets the information which provides story continuity (what's with that? shouldn't everybody get the messages telling us what's going on?) Leaders rarely to never share the important background lore info.
c--they're not particularly heroic: either you're getting one shotted by the prime villian (unless you're a tank ...and maybe even then...), or it's too easy. Unless you have a key role--like the only person with radiation so you can debuff the AV--you're just another little guy plinking away at the Boss...sometimes you can't even take down the minions in a resonable amount of time. I don't feel heroic... I don't want things to be too easy, but I don't want to die 50x in a row on a mission either. Neither is fun.
d--lack of strategy-- either players zerg the objective (that's boring to just run right over the top of things), or it's so tough only one strategy works and everything else results in multiple team wipes (which is also boring after you've done it a couple of times).
e--all of the above is un-fun as far as I'm concerned and then I'm required to go through this over and over to get 'must have' materials/xp for endgame character advancement. That's exponentially un-fun. WOW was even more un-fun than COH Raids.
3. I think that all TF's, Raids, SF's, etc. should have a stageing area in which a team or League can meet, there should be a map of the area of the mission and the leader can use it to explain what's going to happen. There might also be a mission briefing in the way of a cut scene. When everybody on the Raid, or TF yada yada yada is sufficiently briefed then each player--or the leader-- hits their GO button and the group enters the mission. I think this would be a good tool to have for any team or league.
And YES I actually did get in several times using the Que system... however people kept changing their mind and dropping from the Que so much it took a long time before I finally got into a PU Raid.
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Just summing up here: No one is forcing you to do the raids over and over but yourself. I find it really funny that people are ******** about running the same thing over and over when it is THEIR decision to do so. I have no sympathy for these people.|
Originally Posted by Cptn_Courageous
I guess I'll clarify.
1. A Raid, the way I use the word, is a Mission, Trial, Taskforce, Strikeforce or other game activity where-in multiple teams or player groups participate in the same objective/map being said Mission, Trial, Taskforce, Strikeforce or other game activity. 2. Why I don't like Raids a--too chaotic--> most teams run through missions as fast as possible, it's impossible to enjoy the story. People who are familiar with the mission run off and do their thing leaving those who don't to wander around clueless. It's hard to get people to actully do what they're supposed to, and there's somebody who inevitably does the wrong thing and generates a team wipe. b--Leadership issues-->usually the leader makes or breaks the team. Pickup groups are particularly bad this way. Often only the leader gets the information which provides story continuity (what's with that? shouldn't everybody get the messages telling us what's going on?) Leaders rarely to never share the important background lore info. c--they're not particularly heroic: either you're getting one shotted by the prime villian (unless you're a tank ...and maybe even then...), or it's too easy. Unless you have a key role--like the only person with radiation so you can debuff the AV--you're just another little guy plinking away at the Boss...sometimes you can't even take down the minions in a resonable amount of time. I don't feel heroic... I don't want things to be too easy, but I don't want to die 50x in a row on a mission either. Neither is fun. d--lack of strategy-- either players zerg the objective (that's boring to just run right over the top of things), or it's so tough only one strategy works and everything else results in multiple team wipes (which is also boring after you've done it a couple of times). e--all of the above is un-fun as far as I'm concerned and then I'm required to go through this over and over to get 'must have' materials/xp for endgame character advancement. That's exponentially un-fun. WOW was even more un-fun than COH Raids. 3. I think that all TF's, Raids, SF's, etc. should have a stageing area in which a team or League can meet, there should be a map of the area of the mission and the leader can use it to explain what's going to happen. There might also be a mission briefing in the way of a cut scene. When everybody on the Raid, or TF yada yada yada is sufficiently briefed then each player--or the leader-- hits their GO button and the group enters the mission. I think this would be a good tool to have for any team or league. And YES I actually did get in several times using the Que system... however people kept changing their mind and dropping from the Que so much it took a long time before I finally got into a PU Raid. |
Second: I have no problem with making it so everybody can read the info, but for now stop ******** about it and step up to the plate if you want to read the story. Same thing goes for leading teams. Don't sit here ******** people don't know how to do it if you aren't going to step up and lead.
Third: This is entirely new content. I find it unbelievable that people expect these trials to be easy. It is meant to be hard.
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Show a realistic alternative to them. No, converting shards is not "realistic," and while they may make vague comments about "sometime" story arcs and such, that does nothing now or near-term. |
Originally Posted by Sharker_Quint 0I
Just summing up here: No one is forcing you to do the raids over and over but yourself. I find it really funny that people are ******** about running the same thing over and over when it is THEIR decision to do so. I have no sympathy for these people.
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You want the powers, you have to grind the same raids repeatedly.
Compare to, oh:
- Vanguard merits. Can get anywhere, after doing a fast set of talk tos. Can even get for defeating non-rikti content thanks to a day job. Solo, team, task force, mothership raid - doesn't matter.
- Hero merits - Solo to small team missions that can be run quickly, at your own pace.
- Purples. Droppable from 47+ mobs while doing any variety of content. Limited application.
- Hami/SHOs - Can be gotten from a raid or task force, *or* traded or purchased on the market (and I've gotten many of them very cheaply. Damage/Range is great on a Kheld, for extending powers like Cosmic Burst and the like. Picked up a new batch at 300-500k.)
For any of these, I have multiple things I can *choose* to do to get the item. Yes, some ways are a little slower than others - but nowhere near the orders of magnitude difference when it comes to shards/threads/etc.
Given hints about upcoming content - the whole "Coming storm" bit that's been getting hinted at since Issue *6* with the Bloody Bay shivans, *before COH was purchased from Cryptic and PS was created,* it doesn't feel like these powers are "optional." That *aside* from finally "being something else for the 50s to do" and "finally being able to improve the 50s- leveling without raising the level cap."
So, what are the "options?"
1. Rerun baf/lambda repeatedly, or
2. if you're not on a character that can run +6X# or higher, get a shard every couple of missions, eventually try to convert to threads, burn a ton of INF to use that for iXP, and a few years from now finally get an Incarnate power slotted.
Doesn't sound like much of an "option," Sharker.
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There's not exactly a ton of story in the Trials. Cut scenes tell most of it, anyhow. Also, there are parts where communications come in and tell you the loose layout of the trial, but we'll get back to that in a second.|
Originally Posted by Cptn_Courageous
a--too chaotic--> most teams run through missions as fast as possible, it's impossible to enjoy the story. People who are familiar with the mission run off and do their thing leaving those who don't to wander around clueless. It's hard to get people to actully do what they're supposed to, and there's somebody who inevitably does the wrong thing and generates a team wipe.
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| b--Leadership issues-->usually the leader makes or breaks the team. Pickup groups are particularly bad this way. Often only the leader gets the information which provides story continuity (what's with that? shouldn't everybody get the messages telling us what's going on?) Leaders rarely to never share the important background lore info. |
As for leadership, are you doing the LFG queue, or actually forming leagues? If you're league leader isn't asking if anyone new needs the low-down on the trial, then that should be a good sign that maybe they're not up for the job. If you're in the LFG Queue, then I can see why you think there's no time for set up.
Many servers have global channels for forming TF, Raid and Trial groups. Find them and make use of them. They make the experience that much better because most people in those channels enjoy communication as a team tool.
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| c--they're not particularly heroic: either you're getting one shotted by the prime villian (unless you're a tank ...and maybe even then...), or it's too easy. Unless you have a key role--like the only person with radiation so you can debuff the AV--you're just another little guy plinking away at the Boss...sometimes you can't even take down the minions in a resonable amount of time. I don't feel heroic... I don't want things to be too easy, but I don't want to die 50x in a row on a mission either. Neither is fun. |
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| d--lack of strategy-- either players zerg the objective (that's boring to just run right over the top of things), or it's so tough only one strategy works and everything else results in multiple team wipes (which is also boring after you've done it a couple of times). |
Also, try joining some Master Of runs, because there's different strategies used on those. As for getting one shotted by the AV too often, try changing YOUR strategy. Most of the AVs are melee, so if you're that squishy, do you best to stay away.
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| e--all of the above is un-fun as far as I'm concerned and then I'm required to go through this over and over to get 'must have' materials/xp for endgame character advancement. That's exponentially un-fun. WOW was even more un-fun than COH Raids. |
@Rylas
Kill 'em all. Let XP sort 'em out.
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Riiiiight. Glacial? People were in all t4s within a week.
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Originally Posted by Bladesnow
Indeed they are, and they are every bit as bad as a lot of us feared. The folks pointing out the much vaunted "alternate path" oddly always fail to mention that the developers have clearly stated it will be MUCH slower than the already glacial pace of the current raid-based system. Assuming you are not favored with lightning advancement by the whims of the RNG, but that's a whole 'nother discussion already ongoing elsewhere in the forums.
I'm with Cptn_Courageous in his OP. I don't like raids. Shoe-horning them into CoX does nothing good for the game. If they're gonna insist on jamming then in where they don't fit, though, he's right, they oughta at least give us the tools to make them a little more endurable. |
The problem I have with all of this Incarnate stuff is the *major* paradigm shift that's now occurring in the game.
I have literally hundreds of characters.
In the past, ANY of them could join a team and be viable.
We need another tank (or blaster or scrapper or controller or etc)? No problem, I just shift over to another character.
Sure, that character may not be totally min/max optimal, but he's more than viable and can effectively contribute to the team success.
Now? Not so much. In fact, odds are he can't even join the team; or if he can, he'll be beyond worthless and nothing but a total leech.
I have a grand total of 3 characters who've unlocked the Alpha slot and only one of those has anything actually slotted in - a common built from shards that took almost 3 weeks to gather.
At the moment I don't really care. I enjoy running lower level alts and that's what I continue to do for now..
But, if this trend towards nothing but bigger/badder Incarnate-powered mega-gods being the required play-style continues (as it appears to be likely to do so far), then my options for fun become further and further left behind in the dust....
I don't have a problem with the Incarnate stuff and the big raiding parties existing along side "normal" play, and I understand that there's only so many things that can be crammed into each release; so I'm more than willing (been here 6 years, so obviously I can be patient when needed) to wait for them to "catch-up" with themselves and go back to providing other gameplay styles as well.
But if the vision for the future of this game is really going to be what it's looking like it is so far then .......
6000+ levels gained and 8 level 50's
Hello, my name is Soulwind and I have Alt-Itis.
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But you see, that argument no longer holds up.|
Originally Posted by Sharker_Quint 0I
Just summing up here: No one is forcing you to do the raids over and over but yourself. I find it really funny that people are ******** about running the same thing over and over when it is THEIR decision to do so. I have no sympathy for these people.
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In the past, yes it was true. Don't like TFs? Don't do them. Don't like big teams? Don't run with them. And so on.
That's no longer the case.
"No one is forcing you to do the raids over and over but yourself".
And the game mechanics, if you actually want to keep up with being able to do the new content that is...
And as that new content gets further and further away from a "base", non-multiple-level-shifted-super-Incarnate, character the locking out of content without massive raid grinding is only going to get worse.
6000+ levels gained and 8 level 50's
Hello, my name is Soulwind and I have Alt-Itis.
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To summerize: |
Originally Posted by Sharker_Quint 0I
Just summing up here: No one is forcing you to do the raids over and over but yourself. I find it really funny that people are ******** about running the same thing over and over when it is THEIR decision to do so. I have no sympathy for these people.
Second: I have no problem with making it so everybody can read the info, but for now stop ******** about it and step up to the plate if you want to read the story. Same thing goes for leading teams. Don't sit here ******** people don't know how to do it if you aren't going to step up and lead. Third: This is entirely new content. I find it unbelievable that people expect these trials to be easy. It is meant to be hard. |
1) Not all critiques of game systems that imply some dissatisfaction are whinning. Negative feed back is sometimes necessary to give developers an accurate assessment of how people feel about the content and direction of the game.
2) Not everyone has the same tastes in content. Stating that you don't care for a particular style of content and explaining why, is not whinning, it's analysis and explaination. Just because a person doesn't share your particular view on an issue doesn't necessarily make them wrong, it just means their view is different.
Second:
Making suggestions about how to improve an existing system is not whinning, it's constructive criticism. In order for people to communicate with the developers they have to say something. Note: they get to say what they think even if you don't like it.
Third:
None of the rest of us are responsible for your misperceptions and incredulity. You'll have to deal with those on your own.
As for the content--
1) I suppose you mean 'most recient' rather than 'new'... How 'new' can something be after running it multiple times?
2) "Hard" is a matter of preception and opinion. What appears easy to one person may be hard to another. That perception can be colored by a number of other factors governing the experience. What arch-type were you playing at the time? What support characters were assisting? How is your character spec'd? How did the other players with you play their characters?
3)Un-fun is not necessarily the same as difficult, and even 'new' content can lack in entertainment value if the activities do not resonate with the participant in a meaningful way.
What makes something too difficult?
1) What's your failure threshold? --how many times must you try to accomplish the objective before you give up? This differs from person to person and team to team. Some players have a very low failure threshold--one or two deaths and they will quit.
Others will die repeatedly over and over many times and still not give up as long as there's still a chance of accomplishing the mission. (That's me. I don't quit until the rest of my team bails or we win...still it's frustrating to die repeatly because others are doing things that get you killed or they're not doing their job).
2) What's too difficult for one team may not be for another. A good mix of Archtypes is usually pretty successful, what happens when you don't have a good mix? What happens when you don't have enough or any of the AT you need to complete the mission?
The answer in WOW was to make carefully constructed teams so that you got what you needed to accomplish the raid. This meant people got excluded so they couldn't play their character, especially if a guild had sufficient people of that class already... I don't want to see that sort of thing happen to COX.
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That current mechanic follows a concept I don't understand:|
Originally Posted by Phewmite
Honestly I have to say that I don't mind the raids, though my first few runs were quite frustrating. Now that strategies have emerged and incarnate levels have increased the Trials are becoming easier, much like the high level TF's.
That said, I have to admit that I would much prefer gaining incarnate levels through story arc content. The trials are proving themselves *very* grinding and seem very disconnected to any storyline. The idea of "I've stpped the 80th attempt of the Preators to release these mindwashed into society so the well has granted me the ability to...." just doesn't seem to fit in with a story driven power increase. What I think the best route to go is to offer a story arc for gaining each of the incarnate powers (much like the Alpha slot) and then use the Trials as just that, trials that require the use of the newly aquired powers. |
Grind away in repetitive runs of some raids*, that are not really hard and soon get boring, to then get powers and extra levels that make you lol-epic, that you can then use to run that same content but now it's even easier and more boring?
Or will those be a true requirement for stuff beyond, that no mere 50 can survive, so that all characters that are not 53 or 55 or what will be the new max level feel totally worthless?
I don't mind raids*. I think they are cool when they are an option. (and the new content has cool new mission mechanics!)
*And I don't mind how you call them.
I do mind when there is new content that doesn't have many alternatives to get to the new max level (that you cannot be side-kicked to like with normal levels), which in return you need to play other new content. IF that is what the future brings.
(I find the new levels, in form of level shifts, do more bad than good. The bonus and powers gained from incarnate slots are enough.)
Think of the Incarnate system as being like a gigantic RWZ, with different options to experience the main story - there's a raid option, a TF option, a story arc option, and a repeatable mission option - but all of them are tied into one big story about an invasion from another dimension.
So far, the Incarnate content has given us a raid option and a TF option as ways to experience the story - and the devs have said they're looking at story arc and repeatable Incarnate missions - there's no real reason to think that these won't be tied into the main Praetorian invasion plotline.
The meta-story has already been written - the lore behind Incarnate powers and the Well has already been laid out - so any kind of content about getting Incarnate power will be tied to this lore and meta-story.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork