Master Badges & Incarnate Powers

I think the DEV's missed a big loop hole with the new incarnate powers. Recently I saw someone saying how "easy" the master badge was to get for a STF now that the team was level shifted, had incarnate pets and incarnate attacks.

Master badges are supposed to be HARD, not easy. I'm very proud of the fact that I have my Master STF, Master LRSF and many others earned WITHOUT the use of incarnates. It means we had teams that communicated and used great tactics, not just over powered the enemy to win.

It is my opinion that the level shift and all incarnate powers should ALSO be "greyed" out when doing Master runs.

What do the rest of your guardians think?

Amen Sister! Been waiting on someone to post this! Alot of us holding these badges aren't happy that the devs handed these badges to people on a silver platter . Maybe they can give us a badge that says "I actually had to work for my badges". Incarnate ablilites should be turned off when you run masters just like temps.

have to agree with you ladies. i'm not usually on when most of the are free but i have MoLGTF on two toons. it was hard but fun to get the tactics down and run tf.

I remember when I was getting these badges, I had to go uphill....BOTH WAYS!!!



Get off mah lawn!!

In the snow...

These kind of threads always amaze me..... don't surprise me anymore, just amaze!

They made some of the enemy defeat badges and the accomplishment (or is it achievement? I always get those mixed up) badges easier to get, and that was done on purpose, so I don't see any big deal with it.

Then again, I don't have any of the old school "Master of" badges, so maybe I'm biased the other way.

And yet with level shifts and incarnate powers, they still want a healer and tank for a normal TF...

Lol Vix, you knew I just couldn't resist this one... <walks knowingly into trap>

I was on that team that recently got the MoSTF, but keep in mind I have had mine for 3 years now. I did it for 2 reasons: I wanted to help some friends and also to see if this really had become as easy as I suspected.

I have to head into work for a bit, but I'll finish this later.

Well, you got YOUR badge back when it WAS hard right? Shouldn't that mean it’s just as impressive as it was back in the day?

However, a lot of the old content that used to be hard is now quite easy. Was on an MoSTF with Neph a week or two ago that failed because no one was paying attention...because it was boring and easy. But that’s the point of incarnates, you’re SUPPOSED to be awesome. They are coming out with new "challenging" content for that very reason. Now it times for us to go thru and do things almost unimaginable a few issues ago. It's time for that 10minute MoITFs (you better get on that blood), that solo MoSTF, those 7 toon rikti raids, those soloed GMs being soloed left and right (for every AT not just debuffers).

Ok, back for more.

On that MoSTF run this earlier week this week, I'm absolutely shocked that the couple of attempts before I came in to help out had failed. The incarnate abilities make it comparable to a high schooler beating up a 3rd grader. Sure, it is still failable, but if you work together and/or don't have an absolute MAJOR hole in the team makeup, you are very unlikely to fail. There was 1 or 2 close calls on ours, but those were because of the group not sticking together.

Some (actually a lot) seem to like having the +1 level shift and being able to use incarnate powers on the older TF's. Heck, I'm one of them. I'll do it again. But there's nothing masterful about doing it that way.

One of the definitions of master is to mean "eminently skilled in something". With using all the new goodies a team doesn't need to be eminently skilled. They need to be 'kind of paying attention'.

There are other examples about why the MO's are no longer consistent... Back when they changed the difficulty settings there was a time when you could run a TF (even an MO) at -1 difficulty. People complained and it was changed so that you couldn't run at -1. How is running with a bunch of +1's any different than pre-alpha -1?

Temp powers were excluded from MO's because they made it too easy...
What's the difference between what those do versus what the Incarnate powers do? If one is ok for an MO, why not the other?

I like that you can use the full arsenal to run these TF's, I'm just disappointed that there is no real challenge left to the old MO's. Everyone should have a chance to be able to complete these TF's normally and get the badges. I don't think it's unfair to ask them to work harder (master the techniques and teamwork) if they want to get an MO.

I really dont think they should make it so iPowers dont work. I think they should keep the Mo bages just the way they are. But, they should add a new set of badges that use the settings that are never touched. STF while players are under constant debuff, enemies are buff, you cant use insp, your enhancements dont work, cant use temps, no dieing, AND a time limit. Now that would be hard while still allowing people to use this new system. You dont just make people more powerful and then take that power away so the game stays hard. You give people the option to play an even harder game.

I posted it on FB, but let me say this here too...

Keep the Master as it is. Its a legacy, a representative of some care on running the TFs.

Create new badges, for those that run at +4 and No Temps. An Incarnate Difficulty, if you prefer.
My preference would be something that makes reference to the name of the Arc, not the contact. Few people actually know that the ITF is named Time's Arrow.
And make the incarnate threads drop on the Incarnate difficulty. Maybe offer an Astral Merit as a reward on the end of the TF.

Make the whole level 50 content shine with the Incarnate content, and not only make the Incarnate content the new shinny.

The Incarnate system hasn't been very well thought out and sleep-walking through old-school Master runs is indicative of that.

The amount of Incarnate content released was so small that removing the use of Incarnate powers from 'normal' content would leave players with two TFs (Apex and Tin) initially. Even now it would leave those two TFs and the two new Raids (LAM and BAF) if Incarnate powers weren't available in the maint content.

Personally I would be fine with that - I believe if you have Incarnate powers you should be using them on Raids built for that purpose. However I'd expect many others wouldn't agree.

So unfortunately we're left with the situation where people are sleep walking through the majority of content - including Master runs.

I'm very proud of the Mo's I've done (all at level 50, some without set IOs). I wouldn't get the same satisfaction from running them now because in my eyes running them with eight +1s (and other toys) is meaningless. However, it seems that a lot just want to walk through content rather than use tactics or co-ordination the way I did on my Mos and so won't give up their shinies.

I'm sure we've all been on a team where we wanted to work together but a heavy-IO'd char joined and either just solo'd/sped the mission/TF because they could solo the whole content. Incarnate powers being available in normal content has exacerbated that problem a great deal.

For myself I'd love to see all the Incarnate powers removed from use in non-Incarnate content (IE everything but Apex, Tin, LAM and BAF at the moment) because it really isn't necessary and dumbs-down the content. Unfortunately it will never happen and I think it's a shame because being on a team with a lot of the Incarnate heavy powers makes the whole thing a joke.

Remove Incarnate shifts/powers/toys from Master runs? Definitely. Absolutely. We aren't talking about reducing the amount of healing required for a badge from insane to reasonable, we're talking about content that was perfectly playable before and is now just ... Pacman level.

On a side note is anyone else having issues getting this site to load? Seems to be hanging a lot when I try and it's only this forum.


.

Honestly I dont care what people think about how I feel..I didnt whine when they made my empath badge worthless. I earned that badge before the amounts got lowered it was my pride badge. But now they have gone and taken my MO badges and made them into the kill skulls badge. It makes me very angry that all that time I put into it is now worthless. So now people want me to take the time I put into getting the original MO's and redo it all over again. Kay this isnt a strike at you. Its a strike at the Devs for not thinking about those of us who have put time into 1 toon and have made that one toon our beloved toon. These badges meant something to us now honestly can say Im in no rush to get another badge for what to make it easier in about 2 months time! Its just very disappointing to know that time was wasted when I could of waited a little while and got it handed to me on a silver platter.

Willow, those vets like yourself and myself (and many others) can take solace in the fact that the badges we have were earned prior to the deployment of the Incarnate abilities. I for one am happy to have earned all of these thanks to great teams and leadership as well as players working together in a challenging environment.

The only Mo badge I am missing from the original ones is Statesman and once I go back to blue, I really want to get this one done and out of the way. Hopefully, I can do it the old-fashioned way. Either way, unless we start slapping asterisks all over the place, or as Kay has suggested a new set of badges for pre-Incarnate and post-Incarnate Mo runs, all we will have is the pride in the accomplishment of doing the Mo run sans Incarnate and a +1 level shift.

From the Rikti monkeys, to the healing badges, etc. there has been a need to reduce these goals to make them more attainable to the majority of folks. I don't agree with it, but it is what it is. I understand your disappointment, sadly and hopefully one day the Devs might correct this.
*crosses fingers*

I think the best suggestion here is that enabling the No Temporary Powers option also disables all Incarnate powers. Good-bye level shift and hello old-school Master badges. If someone wants to run the STF or RSF with their Incarnate powers then they shouldn't be eligible for the Master of badges, but they can still do either/or if they wish.

It makes me smile to see the guys that i've done a lot of my Master Runs with feel the same way I do!!!

Armeros...when you want to do that MASTER STF the REAL way!! I'm in. I will unslot all incarnate and level shift for ya! I've emp'd quite a few STF Masters just fine! ;-)

Disabling the Incarnate during regular content would be a shot in the foot for the game.

The game is thriving on it. People are enjoying it. Acting like hardcore Holier-than-you is the kind of thing that aggravates people, both old and new.

We who have our Mo's can be proud of it. But by the same token, be ashamed of diminishing any who dont thing/play like we do. We sound like old cranks, cursing the kids playing in the street.

Think the Masters are easy now? Adapt. Evolve. You can set difficult. You can activate persistent Player Debuffs and NPCs Buffs. When was the last time you touched those settings? If you want to feel special and better than the others, use then. At least you should have conquered something without breaking things for the others.

Now get of my lawn, stupid kids!

I have to agree with Willow, a master run is different than regular content. It's supposed to be difficult. It does seem to me that if you're going to allow incarnate powers in a master run they should just go ahead and allow temp powers as well but that's my two cents worth.

Maybe I'm just upset Willow made me run 467 Khans for the badge that she doesn't care about now .

Ahh but I do care about that badge cause some great friends help me out with that one!

But, maybe there is a silverlining in this whole stuff. A month ago I would of been pissed if I didnt complete a MO. Now I simply dont care rather I get it or not. Doesnt mean I wont give my all to a MO attempt. But now I just shrug and move on..So thats my happy ending to all this disappointment.