Maybe I'm showing my ignorance, but even with the incarnate powers I don't think the Master of RSF will be much easier. The buffs from Destiny are nice, but not permanent. Yes, I know you can stagger, but that takes a lot of effort from people to invest in the time to get the powers in the first place.
I got my Master of RSF badge in one run with two /Cold Corruptors, an /FF Mastermind, and a little bit of luck. That's what I think it takes to get some of the "Master of" badges. Luck and the right team makeup. I don't think that will change with the incarnate powers. You can have all the defense and regen (and whatever else) in the world, and the RNG will still show it's ugly head from time to time. If anything, all this will do is make things slightly easier for people who have invested a significant amount of time in building their character.
Glad to see it only took you 4 people to get a master badge thats totally awesome! 
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OK you made me spit my coffee out on this one Willow.
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Originally Posted by Willow21
Glad to see it only took you 4 people to get a master badge thats totally awesome!
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Originally Posted by Willow21
Glad to see it only took you 4 people to get a master badge thats totally awesome!
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The point on what I tried to say, and wasnt understood is:
Things Change, but anyone can still run what they want the way they want. Just dont expect everyone else to do as you want.
You could assemble a team without I-stuff slotted. Nothing is stopping you from running old-school runs. But dont force it on everyone else. If most people dont want to do as you want, let then be.
Things Change.
When I got the game, I paid for CoH. Then I paid for CoV. Then, some time later, when you got one you received the other freely. I didnt complained and made a fuss about it. I just accepted that things changed and moved on. At least I had the satisfaction of playing both while some were playing only one (no matter how selfish was that feeling).
Its exactly the same thing here. We all got our badges before I-Stuff. Now people are getting the same badges easily than we did. I dont care. I got mine before, and knowing that is enough satisfaction for me. Things changed and I moved on.
You say that Master Runs should be difficult. Well, we CAN make then difficult even with the I-Stuff. We control settings that never were used before. Its all on our hands to make it as difficult as we want.
I see a great advantage on the I-Stuff on regular content (and yes, master runs are regular content). There is now more room for experimentation. You dont have to keep on cookie-teams. You can try amazing combinations on teams.
The core on this discussion is just this: We are annoyed that others wont suffer as we suffered to get those pesky badges. We are angry that our victories seens diminished because others now do things different ways than ours. We should be ashamed of ourselves. We ARE the old men on the window, shouting to the kids to get out of our lawns.
Capisce?
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And there's your mistake, Kay. We're not saying that Master runs should be difficult. We're saying they shouldn't be easy. There's a difference.|
Originally Posted by KayJMM
You say that Master Runs should be difficult. Well, we CAN make then difficult even with the I-Stuff. We control settings that never were used before. Its all on our hands to make it as difficult as we want.
I see a great advantage on the I-Stuff on regular content (and yes, master runs are regular content). There is now more room for experimentation. You dont have to keep on cookie-teams. You can try amazing combinations on teams. |
The incarnate abilities make it easy.
The real issue here is that there are too many that don't want to put in the effort to "master" these TF's, so they like that it's much easier to do with Incarnate abilities right now.
.... and yeah, I tend to side with the people that spent time honing their craft that feel like they wasted their time because if they had waited until now they could have slept through it. These were supposed to be hard, that was the whole point of them. The "not hard" version was the completion badge. If people want more (ie. the MO badge), they should have to work harder at it. It's not impossible. I'm not sure who said it first, but suggesting that people should re-up their difficulty to revalidate or get a new badge comes off as a slap in the face if you've already paid your dues to earn it when it was difficult.
ANYWAY... there are more important things for the devs to worry about than this. The server performance of CoH has been terrible since I-20. Let's try to get them to decrease lag/mapserves/crashes before worrying about this, ok?
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As much as I wanted to refrain from comment, this quote above illustrates one of the more frustrating flaws about the previous "Master Of" requirements: a frequent reliance on specific team compositions. If folks want a specific badge denoting they earned it "the Hard Way" with Mind/ Doms or with Corruptor-heavy-teams+Stone Brutes, then someone would want the badge to be for doing it without such reliance. |
Originally Posted by Willow21
The lord recluse master badge for one. To complete most times you needed a mind dom. Those are few and fair between on guardian.
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I know that you said "most times you *needed* a mind dom" but in saying so, you also acknowledge a frequent reliance on a specific AT and powerset. That reliance more frequently manifested as a dependency on "several corruptors and a non-squishy brute" that allowed a couple so-called "pity" spots for other ATs. This presented an atmosphere of exclusivity that essentially gave players the option of either having a character that the MO-team considered "useful" or awaiting a spot on a run that had room for a "filler." This example in no way diminishes the potentially high skill level of all players involved. It does provide a common example of how even Master LRSF runs could be achieved with relatively little additional skill once enough optimal AT combinations were recruited. The "fillers" simply had to avoid doing stupid things for the duration of the run.
While there will always be some sets better suited for some challenges more-so than others, the fact that so many teams "earning" their old MoLRSF badges used such a strategy is a particularly damning argument against the final mission spawn design or a particularly powerful argument that the Devs *love* Mind/ Doms. Why pit your team against 8 Heroes all in the same place if the intended methodology to displaying "Mastery" is somehow separating them from one another immediately after they resolved to stand together against your dastardly band of brigands. "Your Team versus One Hero/AV at a time" is a standard affair in our game. The method by which a team manipulates aggro to avoid fighting the encounter as spawned or relies on one particular AT & powerset does not denote "Mastery" of much more than that particular aggro mechanic or that one particular AT & powerset.
Kay (along with others) have noted how Incarnate-wielding players achieving these older "Master Of" doesn't have to take away from what you and your teams did to achieve them. The pride you have in how *you* did it can remain with you. There may be others who disapprove of easily *you* may have obtained the badge. This emphasis on how superior one team's coordination and patience was or how long it took for them to get it comes off as hubris only when they demand that others experience it the same way. Badges are inherently a matter of pride, but some folks would rather take pride in being able to have their team of 8 pitted directly against the Freedom Phalanx all at the same time without any defeats. This doesn't make your accomplishment any less of an accomplishment. It just means they deserved the badge more than you, right?
Thankfully the Devs have (somewhat) reduced the AT dependency for Mastery of the new TFs and Trials. Sadly there are still folks out there clinging to "safety league" formations that promote some of the AT exclusivity that often creeps into our otherwise inclusive game. It happens. But many can now rejoice in the likelihood that their rarely seen AT combo can now contribute to the old Mo runs in ways they previously would have had a hard time being invited to attempt.
Veridian Dynamics. Mistakes. We all make them. But sometimes mistakes lead to great discoveries. Mistakes are how we learn and grow... so we can do amazing things.
When you think about it, shouldn't you be thanking us for making mistakes? Veridian Dynamics. We're sorry. You're welcome.
I dont know about anyone else but Ive never turned down any AT on my tfs or trials. If I felt there was a hole in the team more than likely I or one of my friends would switch to whatever AT that would help the team finish the objective. I completely understand your post. I think people know me and Ive never turned what everyone see's as a weaker toons mm's and stalker on one of my teams or badge hunts. I dont care and I have never seen any AT be useless on a team, tf, or trial. Unless they were just a complete leecher. My whole point was to say Im disappointed that some of us had to work extra hard to get these badges maybe it was a breeze for you or someone else. Wasnt for me!!!! Thats my opinion I dont begrudge anyone here their opinion. I stated how I felt. I see some good point and some what in my opinion are rather silly points being made. Thats just the thing my opinion we all have one. I'll listen to anyones with a opened mind. Alot of the times I can change how I feel on someone else statement just because I see their point. But in this I still feel Ive been cheated out of alot of hard work. As I stated Im so not worried about badges anymore. A month ago I would of been now nope. I havent even really tried to get the badges that came out recently when use to be I would of had them within the first week of them coming out or tried my darnest to get them. Excluding my master stuff. I dont wanna sound like a broken record or make people mad but I dont think anyone is gonna change my mind on how I feel. I do thank you all for you replies and as I stated I do see where your coming from.
Wow looks like a major run on sentence sorry about that
Healthy and constructive discourse is always good to have. Good points and counterpoints have been made on this issue. In the end, it's all about personal pride in the achievement. Doing the old-fashioned way (pre Incarnates/turning off Incarnate abilities) is harder and gave/gives one a sense of satisfaction and pride to be able to accomplish the Mo run in question. While the Mo runs today with Incarnate abilities might be easier, it's still an team effort/tactics that are ultimately necessary to achieve the Mo.
Many of the folks that have posted on this topic, I have had the pleasure of running a Mo with. You are all great players who know your characters and how to play them. This is the reason that Guardian is and always shall be my home server. Quality players always make a difference! 
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I shall comment -- to applaud your remarkably cogent, insightful and well-written post.|
Originally Posted by Mind_Over_Matter
As much as I wanted to refrain from comment...
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-- Vivian
The lord recluse master badge for one. To complete most times you needed a mind dom. Those are few and fair between on guardian. You cant simply just pull one of those avs without pulling others. Or having numina buff the rest. Getting all the way to the end without a death then getting a death sucked to no end. That badge took me over a month to get and upteen tries. Multi people on this server suffered though it with me. Some master badges were quite easy. Kahn being one..