Heya, yep Fire/Colds are awesome.
Few tips on the build:
I'd swap the Apocalypse set to Blaze. It has much higher damage than Fire Blast so makes better use of the high damage enhancement in the set. Blaze is also your go-to kill button, so having the proc in there is better too.
Put the Ragnarok set in Fireball. The damage enhancement values are totally wasted in Sleet and you can get decent mitigation with the KB proc in Fireball. Knocking down about a third of the mobs in a spawn = win. I'd go with 2 recharge/end, a def/recharge/end and the Achilles proc. Priority is recharge, dropping the end cost and then making some more out of the -def debuff.
You're not actually softcapped to anything but energy defense. Which is fine, but I'd try and rejiggle things so you're softcapped to s/l instead or as well.
Your cold shields are underslotted. Well slotted shields should be giving 16-17% defense, yours are giving just under 13.
I'd go with a full 5 Efficacy Adaptors for Heat Loss. You can max out the recharge and get good end mod values on it with good set bonuses to boot. You'd also get some accuracy which is important too, your current slotting only has accuracy from set bonuses.
Speaking of accuracy, Benumb needs 2 acc IOs. Its not much good having it recharge really fast if it doesn't hit. Especially on AVs with defense buffing godmodes, you really want it to land. I go 2 acc 2 recharge.
Snow Storm is way, way overslotted. I personally am not a big fan of the power, but if you want to take it I'd drop some of the slots from it. Those slots can be put to much better use elsewhere.
For example, end rdx in your AoEs. Using your 3 AoEs in a row will eat about 40 endurance. You really don't want to need Heat Loss to function. Which it currently looks like you will, you've got really, really low recovery without Heat Loss up and massive endurance consumption running all your toggles. While this can be much alleviated with the Cardiac Alpha, my personal preference is to properly slot my powers to begin with so you can go Spiritual for even more recharge.
Hope that helps 
Support Guides for all Corruptor secondaries and Fortunatas
The Melee Teaming Guide for Melee Mans
The Melee Teaming Guide for Melee Mans
Thought I'd share my latest build with you folks. Not cheap. Maybe not the best(for the influence). It sure is fun! A team friendly build as well.
I put Ragnarok in RoF because I'm usually to busy buffing/debuffing to spam fire ball as much as I'd like.
BTW, with the recharge on sleet/RoF you won't need Snow Storm, excluding AVs to keep them in your debuff.
Mine will prolly cost a bil or more than Capas based on Membranes, Decimations, and the GA proc (saving hero merits for that)
Anywho, here it is.
Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.90
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Siberian Fire: Level 50 Science Corruptor
Primary Power Set: Fire Blast
Secondary Power Set: Cold Domination
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Flight
Ancillary Pool: Mace Mastery
Villain Profile:
------------
Level 1: Fire Blast Decim-Acc/Dmg(A), Decim-Dmg/EndRdx(3), Decim-Dmg/Rchg(3), Decim-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(9), Decim-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(17)
Level 1: Infrigidate Achilles-ResDeb%(A), Acc-I(34)
Level 2: Fire Ball Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(5), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(5), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(19), Posi-Dam%(34)
Level 4: Ice Shield RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(A), RedFtn-Def/Rchg(11), RedFtn-EndRdx(23), RedFtn-EndRdx/Rchg(33), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(39), RedFtn-Def(39)
Level 6: Rain of Fire Ragnrk-Dmg/Rchg(A), Ragnrk-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(7), Ragnrk-Acc/Rchg(7), Ragnrk-Dmg/EndRdx(9), Ragnrk-Knock%(19)
Level 8: Assault EndRdx-I(A)
Level 10: Glacial Shield RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(A), RedFtn-Def/Rchg(11), RedFtn-Def(17), RedFtn-EndRdx/Rchg(31), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(34), RedFtn-EndRdx(37)
Level 12: Fire Breath Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(13), Posi-Dam%(13), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(25), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(40)
Level 14: Hasten RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(15), RechRdx-I(15)
Level 16: Super Speed Zephyr-ResKB(A), Zephyr-Travel(45)
Level 18: Blaze Apoc-Dmg/Rchg(A), Apoc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), Apoc-Acc/Rchg(42), Apoc-Dmg/EndRdx(43), Apoc-Dam%(43)
Level 20: Arctic Fog RedFtn-EndRdx/Rchg(A), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(21), RedFtn-Def/Rchg(21), RedFtn-Def(25), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(27), LkGmblr-Rchg+(27)
Level 22: Maneuvers LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(23)
Level 24: Aim HO:Membr(A), HO:Membr(29), HO:Membr(29)
Level 26: Boxing Acc-I(A)
Level 28: Tough S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), S'fstPrt-ResDam/EndRdx(31), GA-3defTpProc(46)
Level 30: Weave LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(31), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(40)
Level 32: Benumb RechRdx-I(A), Acc-I(33), Acc-I(43)
Level 35: Sleet Achilles-ResDeb%(A), Posi-Dam%(36), RechRdx-I(36), RechRdx-I(36), LdyGrey-Rchg/EndRdx(37), LdyGrey-%Dam(37)
Level 38: Hover LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(40), LkGmblr-Def(45)
Level 41: Heat Loss Efficacy-Acc/Rchg(A), P'Shift-Acc/Rchg(42), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc/Rchg(42), Efficacy-EndMod/Acc/Rchg(45)
Level 44: Fly Zephyr-Travel(A), Zephyr-ResKB(46)
Level 47: Web Envelope GravAnch-Immob/Rchg(A), GravAnch-Acc/Immob/Rchg(48), GravAnch-Acc/Rchg(48), GravAnch-Immob/EndRdx(48), GravAnch-Hold%(50)
Level 49: Scorpion Shield LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(50), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(50)
------------
Level 1: Brawl Acc-I(A)
Level 1: Sprint Clrty-Stlth(A)
Level 2: Rest RechRdx-I(A)
Level 1: Scourge
Level 6: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift Run-I(A)
Level 2: Hurdle Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Health Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Numna-Heal(46)
Level 2: Stamina EndMod-I(A), EndMod-I(33)
| Do not modify anything below this line! |
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@MARTy McFly
Quick Question Bubblerella: Why the membranes in Aim? I don't think I've ever heard about any use for them in there.
@Sparky Jenkins || Freedom Server | Union Server
Main Hero: Inferno Sparky - Fire/Fire Blaster
Main Villain: Kerry Astrid - Fire/Cold Corruptor
Quote:
Heh, news to me. I see 94.93% recharge and 56% to hit from them. Not bad for 3 slots. Originally I had Tactics 6 slotted with Guassian, but after reading what a few others had to say about missing at higher levels I thought Aim might be the better way to go. |
Originally Posted by Wanted_NA
Quick Question Bubblerella: Why the membranes in Aim? I don't think I've ever heard about any use for them in there.
|
If I'm missing something let me know Sparky.
@MARTy McFly
Quote:
All of these things except the bold. |
Originally Posted by Silas
Heya, yep Fire/Colds are awesome.
Few tips on the build: I'd swap the Apocalypse set to Blaze. It has much higher damage than Fire Blast so makes better use of the high damage enhancement in the set. Blaze is also your go-to kill button, so having the proc in there is better too. Put the Ragnarok set in Fireball. The damage enhancement values are totally wasted in Sleet and you can get decent mitigation with the KB proc in Fireball. Knocking down about a third of the mobs in a spawn = win. I'd go with 2 recharge/end, a def/recharge/end and the Achilles proc. Priority is recharge, dropping the end cost and then making some more out of the -def debuff. You're not actually softcapped to anything but energy defense. Which is fine, but I'd try and rejiggle things so you're softcapped to s/l instead or as well. Your cold shields are underslotted. Well slotted shields should be giving 16-17% defense, yours are giving just under 13. I'd go with a full 5 Efficacy Adaptors for Heat Loss. You can max out the recharge and get good end mod values on it with good set bonuses to boot. You'd also get some accuracy which is important too, your current slotting only has accuracy from set bonuses. Speaking of accuracy, Benumb needs 2 acc IOs. Its not much good having it recharge really fast if it doesn't hit. Especially on AVs with defense buffing godmodes, you really want it to land. I go 2 acc 2 recharge. Snow Storm is way, way overslotted. I personally am not a big fan of the power, but if you want to take it I'd drop some of the slots from it. Those slots can be put to much better use elsewhere. For example, end rdx in your AoEs. Using your 3 AoEs in a row will eat about 40 endurance. You really don't want to need Heat Loss to function. Which it currently looks like you will, you've got really, really low recovery without Heat Loss up and massive endurance consumption running all your toggles. While this can be much alleviated with the Cardiac Alpha, my personal preference is to properly slot my powers to begin with so you can go Spiritual for even more recharge. Hope that helps |
The Apoc set is mostly preference, but if you want the best possible DPS, it belongs in Fire Blast. You simply use it more in your single target attack chain and so the proc will go off more.
And you DO NOT need accuracy in Benumb. You have Aim, and while I'm not looking at the exact numbers, I imagine you have 30+% built-in Acc. You also have Sleet and Infrig (not to mention you can always go grab Force of Nature/Geas). If you can find me a scenario when that's not enough, I'd love to see it.
Miscellaneous thoughts...
For Benumb, you'll notice if you take out the 3rd recharge IO, you save a whole .75 seconds in recharge (30.25 to 31). I'd definitely make one of those slots an Accuracy.
Winter's Gift unique in SS will stack the resists to slow and -rch with those same resists in Arctic Fog. You run across caltrop patches as if you had speed boost.
Taking out the 3rd recharge in Hasten increases its recharge from 113.5 seconds to 116.6. In other words, it's doing nothing for you since it doesn't stack for those 3 seconds.
Here's a playstyle thing - the nuke and Heat Loss have the same recharge. Personally, I find Sleet> ROF> Inferno > HL one of the most satisfying sequences in the game, surpassed only by Fulcrum Shift> ROF > Inferno > Transference. Some people don't like toggle dropping and if that's you, so be it. I play this combo just so I can do that.
I do want to ditto the feedback that Snow Storm was way overslotted. I'll add that Infridgidate is improperly slotted. It has a to-hit check and when you want it to stick, you REALLY want it to stick. Two of Analyze Weakness, that increase your accuracy, are what I'd go for.
I'll also agree that HL needs accuracy.
Last thing - 4 Kinetic Combats in Boxing will get you capped to s/l and not really harm your global recharge as much as you might think. 2-slotted Hasten is still perma (barely) with that change.
Global = Hedgefund (or some derivation thereof)
Quote:
I'll take a deeper look at the build when I get the chance and let you know if I see anything. It's just that those membranes really caught my eye, lol.|
Originally Posted by Bubblerella
Heh, news to me. I see 94.93% recharge and 56% to hit from them. Not bad for 3 slots. Originally I had Tactics 6 slotted with Guassian, but after reading what a few others had to say about missing at higher levels I thought Aim might be the better way to go.
If I'm missing something let me know Sparky. |
The thing about Aim though: As pointed out in some other threads your base ToHit against 54 mobs is 37%. Aim already give 42.5% ToHit bonus in base. So capping the ToHit Bonus with Membranes isn't really going to help you much in that regard since your powers are slotted for pretty good accuracy bonuses. And your global accuracy is good, too. Except against enemies with considerably high defence (cough cimereoreans cough), but then again, against those Sleet will help you a ton in bringing down their Defence a peg or two.
Also, I would very seriously consider dropping one of the damage procs in Sleet for a Kismet Unique in Manuevers or Hover. Also, I'd personally switch the Numina: Heal in Health for a Miracle: +Recovery.
Which Alpha boost you using with that build? Cardiac?
@Sparky Jenkins || Freedom Server | Union Server
Main Hero: Inferno Sparky - Fire/Fire Blaster
Main Villain: Kerry Astrid - Fire/Cold Corruptor
Quote:
Disagree with both points. |
Originally Posted by Crazy_Larry
All of these things except the bold.
The Apoc set is mostly preference, but if you want the best possible DPS, it belongs in Fire Blast. You simply use it more in your single target attack chain and so the proc will go off more. And you DO NOT need accuracy in Benumb. You have Aim, and while I'm not looking at the exact numbers, I imagine you have 30+% built-in Acc. You also have Sleet and Infrig (not to mention you can always go grab Force of Nature/Geas). If you can find me a scenario when that's not enough, I'd love to see it. |
(1) With enough recharge, you can run Blaze-FBlast-Flares as your attack chain. And you should always be gunning for me recharge right? And on team's I rarely get a chance to get off an attack chain - I'm usually dropping AoEs, Debuffs, etc ... so Blaze needs to count when you get it off.
(2) I personally like slotting an Acc in Benumb, for those times when Aim isn't available, particularly for +4s. Your mileage may vary, but given the recharge ... you want it to hit.
To the OP ... recommend more recharge in your Fireball and RoF. Silas's advice on putting Ragnarok in Fireball was great. Rain of fire needs an extra Recharge IO. Bubblerella's slotting of Sleet looked great, I'd adopt that.
I personally think that taking (much less slotting) Snow Storm is overkill - way too much animation time for the value you're getting. If you need something to stay in one place, just drop a web grenade. I'd put those slots into Shields, but YMMV.
There's been a lot of Fire/Cold talk in chief_beef's thread further down
Quote:
Actually, comparing Fire Blast with the Apoc set and Blaze with the Apoc set, Blaze only has marginally less DPS (46.6 Blaze vs 48.4 Fire Blast). However, Blaze blows it out of the water for DPA (279 vs 129). |
Originally Posted by Crazy_Larry
All of these things except the bold.
The Apoc set is mostly preference, but if you want the best possible DPS, it belongs in Fire Blast. You simply use it more in your single target attack chain and so the proc will go off more. |
Blaze is your best ST ranged attack, so slot it with your best ST ranged set. Yes, Fire Blast recharges faster so if you're spamming it, the proc will go off more there. However, Blaze should be your go-to attack, your main attack, so slot it with the best set.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Crazy_Larry
And you DO NOT need accuracy in Benumb. You have Aim, and while I'm not looking at the exact numbers, I imagine you have 30+% built-in Acc. You also have Sleet and Infrig (not to mention you can always go grab Force of Nature/Geas). If you can find me a scenario when that's not enough, I'd love to see it.
|
FoN/Geas will grant tohit but will also debuff your defense. Aim is arguably the best solution, but I really don't see why you wouldn't just slot Benumb properly to begin with.
You want more accuracy in it to hit AVs in +def godmodes, stuff several levels above you, etc.
Support Guides for all Corruptor secondaries and Fortunatas
The Melee Teaming Guide for Melee Mans
The Melee Teaming Guide for Melee Mans
Quote:
Or you can put the proc in Fire Blast and the rest of the set in Blaze.|
Originally Posted by Silas
Actually, comparing Fire Blast with the Apoc set and Blaze with the Apoc set, Blaze only has marginally less DPS (46.6 Blaze vs 48.4 Fire Blast). However, Blaze blows it out of the water for DPA (279 vs 129).
Blaze is your best ST ranged attack, so slot it with your best ST ranged set. Yes, Fire Blast recharges faster so if you're spamming it, the proc will go off more there. However, Blaze should be your go-to attack, your main attack, so slot it with the best set. |
Quote:
|
Yes, you do. Benumb is your main AV debuffing power, you don't want to take chances with it missing. Since you can very easily slot it to get good accuracy and recharge, there's no reason not to. Using Infrigidate later on to anything but debuff fire dealing AVs is a bit silly, since Sleet does more -def and is a large AoE. FoN/Geas will grant tohit but will also debuff your defense. Aim is arguably the best solution, but I really don't see why you wouldn't just slot Benumb properly to begin with. You want more accuracy in it to hit AVs in +def godmodes, stuff several levels above you, etc. |
@Sparky Jenkins || Freedom Server | Union Server
Main Hero: Inferno Sparky - Fire/Fire Blaster
Main Villain: Kerry Astrid - Fire/Cold Corruptor
Thank you all for your responses! The time you took to post is much appreciated.
I've done a bit of tweaking (and probably have more to do; please let me know!) and the result is below.
I have a few options on this build still:
1) Grav in Web Grenade and then KC in Boxing to hit the S/L def soft-cap
2) Enfeebled in Web Grenade and move the slots from boxing but take a bit of a hit on the recharge
3) Enfeebled in Web, keep the KC in boxing and replace Hover with Snow Storm
I'm pretty undecided on all of those options. I like Snow Storm and am a bit nervous of losing it but that's probably because I played so long without Sleet. (I duo'd with a Cold Def and how I envied him!)
My energy/neg def is not as good which worries me a bit and the previous focusing on ranged def (hence my previous odd slotting of snowstorm).
Anyway, here's the update. Any further thoughts?
Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.93
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Pernio: Level 50 Mutation Corruptor
Primary Power Set: Fire Blast
Secondary Power Set: Cold Domination
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Flight
Ancillary Pool: Mace Mastery
Villain Profile:
Level 1: Fire Blast -- Apoc-Dmg(A), Apoc-Dmg/Rchg(3), Apoc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(5), Apoc-Acc/Rchg(13), Apoc-Dmg/EndRdx(31)
Level 1: Infrigidate -- ShldBrk-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(A), P'ngTtl--Rchg%(17)
Level 2: Fire Ball -- Ragnrk-Dmg(A), Ragnrk-Knock%(3), Ragnrk-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(5), Ragnrk-Acc/Rchg(15), Ragnrk-Dmg/EndRdx(23), EndRdx-I(40)
Level 4: Flares -- Decim-Acc/Dmg(A), Decim-Dmg/EndRdx(31), Decim-Dmg/Rchg(33), Decim-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(34), Decim-Build%(34)
Level 6: Rain of Fire -- Posi-Dam%(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(7), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(7), Posi-Dmg/Rng(25), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(27), EndRdx-I(50)
Level 8: Fire Breath -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(9), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(9), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(11), Posi-Dam%(15), EndRdx-I(46)
Level 10: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(11)
Level 12: Aim -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 14: Boxing -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(17), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(43), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(45)
Level 16: Frostwork -- HO:Golgi(A)
Level 18: Blaze -- Decim-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(A), Decim-Acc/Dmg(19), Decim-Dmg/EndRdx(19), Decim-Dmg/Rchg(21), Decim-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(27)
Level 20: Arctic Fog -- GftotA-Def(A), GftotA-Def/EndRdx(21), LkGmblr-Def(33), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(42), LkGmblr-Rchg+(42), Ksmt-ToHit+(43)
Level 22: Maneuvers -- LkGmblr-Def(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(23), LkGmblr-Rchg+(43)
Level 24: Ice Shield -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(25), LkGmblr-Def(37)
Level 26: Glacial Shield -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(33), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(40)
Level 28: Benumb -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(29), Acc-I(31)
Level 30: Tough -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), S'fstPrt-ResKB(34), S'fstPrt-ResDam/EndRdx(37)
Level 32: Super Speed -- Winter-ResSlow(A)
Level 35: Sleet -- UndDef-DefDeb/Rchg/EndRdx(A), LdyGrey-DefDeb/Rchg/EndRdx(36), Posi-Dam%(36), LdyGrey-%Dam(36), Achilles-ResDeb%(37), UndDef-Rchg/EndRdx(40)
Level 38: Heat Loss -- Efficacy-EndMod/Rchg(A), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc/Rchg(39), P'Shift-Acc/Rchg(39), RechRdx-I(39), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(45)
Level 41: Scorpion Shield -- GftotA-Def(A), GftotA-Def/EndRdx(42), RedFtn-Def(45), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(50)
Level 44: Web Envelope -- GravAnch-Hold%(A), GravAnch-Immob(46), GravAnch-Acc/Immob/Rchg(46), GravAnch-Immob/Rchg(48), GravAnch-Immob/EndRdx(48)
Level 47: Weave -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(48), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(50)
Level 49: Hover -- DefBuff-I(A)
Level 50: Spiritual Core Paragon
Level 0: Born In Battle
Level 0: High Pain Threshold
Level 0: Invader
Level 0: Marshal
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Scourge
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Numna-Heal(13)
Level 2: Stamina -- P'Shift-End%(A), P'Shift-EndMod(29)
Code:
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Quote:
I've spent hundreds and hundreds of hours on my Fire/Cold without an ACC in Benumb. And no, I don't use Infrig, I was just stating it's an option if you're that paranoid about ACC. With an IO'd build (meaning you have upwards of 30% global ACC) and Sleet constantly running (often stacked), Benumb DOES NOT miss. I'll have to watch combat logs sometime to prove it. If you're paranoid you can always save Aim (it recharges faster).
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Originally Posted by Silas
Actually, comparing Fire Blast with the Apoc set and Blaze with the Apoc set, Blaze only has marginally less DPS (46.6 Blaze vs 48.4 Fire Blast). However, Blaze blows it out of the water for DPA (279 vs 129).
Blaze is your best ST ranged attack, so slot it with your best ST ranged set. Yes, Fire Blast recharges faster so if you're spamming it, the proc will go off more there. However, Blaze should be your go-to attack, your main attack, so slot it with the best set. Yes, you do. Benumb is your main AV debuffing power, you don't want to take chances with it missing. Since you can very easily slot it to get good accuracy and recharge, there's no reason not to. Using Infrigidate later on to anything but debuff fire dealing AVs is a bit silly, since Sleet does more -def and is a large AoE. FoN/Geas will grant tohit but will also debuff your defense. Aim is arguably the best solution, but I really don't see why you wouldn't just slot Benumb properly to begin with. You want more accuracy in it to hit AVs in +def godmodes, stuff several levels above you, etc. |
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I find this entertaining - mainly because you and Silas had this exact same exchange six months ago in the other Fire/Cold thread. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that neither of you have changed your mind.|
Originally Posted by Crazy_Larry
I've spent hundreds and hundreds of hours on my Fire/Cold without an ACC in Benumb. And no, I don't use Infrig, I was just stating it's an option if you're that paranoid about ACC. With an IO'd build (meaning you have upwards of 30% global ACC) and Sleet constantly running (often stacked), Benumb DOES NOT miss. I'll have to watch combat logs sometime to prove it. If you're paranoid you can always save Aim (it recharges faster).
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If your point is that, in 99% of the game's content, you're not likely to miss with Benumb without Accuracy (due to global accuracy, Sleet, etc ...), then yes you would be correct.
If you factor in going uplevel to face 54s, and factor in AVs with god-mode powers (i.e., Mako is a good example here), its worthwhile to have some accuracy on hand.
Just my $0.02.
Let's look at a very real scenario of "when Benumb MUST hit", fighting a +3 AV (you at 50+1, AV at 54).
Base to-hit is .48. So if you fire off Benumb with no buffs/debuffs on the AV and no buffs/debuffs on you, Benumb will hit less than half the time.
Let's hit him with Sleet, a 30% Def debuff. Level modifier is .65, AV resistance is .87.
So that debuff becomes .3 * .65 * (1-.87)... a whopping 2.5% debuff.
Let's add it in anyway, so you're now at .48 + .025 = .505. Hey, at least now you'll hit more than half the time.
Ah, but how about that global Accuracy of, oh, 35%. Now we're at .505 * (1 + .35) = .682. Now you're hitting a little more than 2/3 of the time. Not good enough.
Add a lvl 50 Accuracy IO, with enh value of 42.4% and we've got .505 * (1 + .35 + .424) = .90. Getting there. Getting from .9 to .95 can be done a number of different ways, such as slotting a Kismet unique IO, more global accuracy, a 2nd accuracy in Benumb, Tactics, Focused Accuracy and I'm sure there are others.
So yeah, you can reliably hit that level 50 Cimeroran Boss or EB with no Accuracy in Benumb. That's not when Benumb must hit. Fighting Lord Recluse, or Battle Maiden, et al, that's when it must hit and slotting no Accuracy simply won't get it done reliably.
Global = Hedgefund (or some derivation thereof)
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Thank you for the maths!
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Originally Posted by Deacon_NA
Let's look at a very real scenario of "when Benumb MUST hit", fighting a +3 AV (you at 50+1, AV at 54).
Base to-hit is .48. So if you fire off Benumb with no buffs/debuffs on the AV and no buffs/debuffs on you, Benumb will hit less than half the time. Let's hit him with Sleet, a 30% Def debuff. Level modifier is .65, AV resistance is .87. So that debuff becomes .3 * .65 * (1-.87)... a whopping 2.5% debuff. Let's add it in anyway, so you're now at .48 + .025 = .505. Hey, at least now you'll hit more than half the time. Ah, but how about that global Accuracy of, oh, 35%. Now we're at .505 * (1 + .35) = .682. Now you're hitting a little more than 2/3 of the time. Not good enough. Add a lvl 50 Accuracy IO, with enh value of 42.4% and we've got .505 * (1 + .35 + .424) = .90. Getting there. Getting from .9 to .95 can be done a number of different ways, such as slotting a Kismet unique IO, more global accuracy, a 2nd accuracy in Benumb, Tactics, Focused Accuracy and I'm sure there are others. So yeah, you can reliably hit that level 50 Cimeroran Boss or EB with no Accuracy in Benumb. That's not when Benumb must hit. Fighting Lord Recluse, or Battle Maiden, et al, that's when it must hit and slotting no Accuracy simply won't get it done reliably. |
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Depending how much recharge you have will factor in to what attack chain you'll run. What chain are you running where you use Fire Blast more than Blaze? I'm assuming something like Blaze > FB > Flares > FB.|
Originally Posted by Crazy_Larry
All of these things except the bold.
The Apoc set is mostly preference, but if you want the best possible DPS, it belongs in Fire Blast. You simply use it more in your single target attack chain and so the proc will go off more. |
If you're running that chain seamlessly, it takes 5.28s to animate for about 150 DPS.
If you have enough recharge for Blaze > FB > Flares, then that's the way to go. It takes 3.828s to animate for about 155 DPS.
I'm doing these calculations with 98% damage enhancement in each attack and not factoring in Scourge. If I put the Apoc proc in Fire Blast in the first attack chain, it bumps up the DPS to about 163. Now, if I put the proc in Blaze in the other attack chain, the DPS bumps up to about 164.
So, for all around play, having the Apoc proc in Blaze is the best bet.
[U][URL="http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=251594"][/URL][/U]
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Thank you for not including Aim. I also assume this math excludes the fact that a high end toon is level shifted to 51.
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Originally Posted by Deacon_NA
Let's look at a very real scenario of "when Benumb MUST hit", fighting a +3 AV (you at 50+1, AV at 54).
Base to-hit is .48. So if you fire off Benumb with no buffs/debuffs on the AV and no buffs/debuffs on you, Benumb will hit less than half the time. Let's hit him with Sleet, a 30% Def debuff. Level modifier is .65, AV resistance is .87. So that debuff becomes .3 * .65 * (1-.87)... a whopping 2.5% debuff. Let's add it in anyway, so you're now at .48 + .025 = .505. Hey, at least now you'll hit more than half the time. Ah, but how about that global Accuracy of, oh, 35%. Now we're at .505 * (1 + .35) = .682. Now you're hitting a little more than 2/3 of the time. Not good enough. Add a lvl 50 Accuracy IO, with enh value of 42.4% and we've got .505 * (1 + .35 + .424) = .90. Getting there. Getting from .9 to .95 can be done a number of different ways, such as slotting a Kismet unique IO, more global accuracy, a 2nd accuracy in Benumb, Tactics, Focused Accuracy and I'm sure there are others. So yeah, you can reliably hit that level 50 Cimeroran Boss or EB with no Accuracy in Benumb. That's not when Benumb must hit. Fighting Lord Recluse, or Battle Maiden, et al, that's when it must hit and slotting no Accuracy simply won't get it done reliably. |
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Fire Blast -> Blaze -> Fire Blast -> Fire Ball -> Fire Blast (Blaze is recharged here after one cycle, but using it throws off the chain if you continue for more than one cycle) -> Blaze, etc.
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Originally Posted by Fiery-Enforcer
Depending how much recharge you have will factor in to what attack chain you'll run. What chain are you running where you use Fire Blast more than Blaze? I'm assuming something like Blaze > FB > Flares > FB.
If you're running that chain seamlessly, it takes 5.28s to animate for about 150 DPS. If you have enough recharge for Blaze > FB > Flares, then that's the way to go. It takes 3.828s to animate for about 155 DPS. I'm doing these calculations with 98% damage enhancement in each attack and not factoring in Scourge. If I put the Apoc proc in Fire Blast in the first attack chain, it bumps up the DPS to about 163. Now, if I put the proc in Blaze in the other attack chain, the DPS bumps up to about 164. So, for all around play, having the Apoc proc in Blaze is the best bet. |
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This is also true, good point. It's not my preferred slotting, but its certainly a way to get the benefits of both options.|
Originally Posted by Wanted_NA
Or you can put the proc in Fire Blast and the rest of the set in Blaze.
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Originally Posted by Crazy_Larry
I've spent hundreds and hundreds of hours on my Fire/Cold without an ACC in Benumb. And no, I don't use Infrig, I was just stating it's an option if you're that paranoid about ACC. With an IO'd build (meaning you have upwards of 30% global ACC) and Sleet constantly running (often stacked), Benumb DOES NOT miss. I'll have to watch combat logs sometime to prove it. If you're paranoid you can always save Aim (it recharges faster).
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While I don't really agree with the value judgement implicit in saying "paranoid", I do want to give Benumb the best chance to hit possible. It's your AV killer power, I see no reason to skimp on accuracy for it.
I mean, its not like it takes a huge amount of slots to get good accuracy in it, mine is only 4 slotted (2acc 2 rech). Given the number of powers in /Cold that you can skimp on slots with (Infrigidate, Snow Storm, Frostworks, hell, even the shields can be okay with 2 slots) I don't see any reason to skimp on Benumb, which is one of the set-defining powers. I get that for most content its gonna be fine relying on global acc, debuffs and tohit buffs, I just don't get why you would take the chance with a power as key as Benumb.
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Originally Posted by Rad_Avenger
I find this entertaining - mainly because you and Silas had this exact same exchange six months ago in the other Fire/Cold thread. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that neither of you have changed your mind.[...]
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Originally Posted by Deacon_NA
[Ker-Maths!]
So yeah, you can reliably hit that level 50 Cimeroran Boss or EB with no Accuracy in Benumb. That's not when Benumb must hit. Fighting Lord Recluse, or Battle Maiden, et al, that's when it must hit and slotting no Accuracy simply won't get it done reliably. |
I'm terrible at that stuff but I know enough to know I want acc in Benumb, heh.EDIT:
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Originally Posted by Crazy_Larry
Thank you for not including Aim. I also assume this math excludes the fact that a high end toon is level shifted to 51.
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While Aim would help you hit, its a silly solution to a non-issue. Slot Benumb properly because a) you don't need a lot of slots to do so, b) there are plenty of other places to skimp on slots and c) its frigging Benumb. Then you don't need to rely on Aim or defense debuffs or whatever other nonsense. Plus, I've got Benumb slotted for Acc and Aim in my build. That gives me much better chances to land Benumb when it'll count.
Support Guides for all Corruptor secondaries and Fortunatas
The Melee Teaming Guide for Melee Mans
The Melee Teaming Guide for Melee Mans
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LOL! You already had reading phail after the first sentence, where I clearly stated this was the 50+1 math.
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Originally Posted by Crazy_Larry
I also assume this math excludes the fact that a high end toon is level shifted to 51.
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Global = Hedgefund (or some derivation thereof)
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Yeah, I missed that part. But how is using Aim a silly solution? It's there, ready to be used. Are you just going to sit on it because you have accuracy slotted in Benumb? Is there some scenario where you're not allowed to use Aim?|
Originally Posted by Silas
Actually he says right at the start its for a +3 AV, you at 50+1 vs a 54 AV. Plus, you said your Benumb never misses in your hundreds and hundreds of hours, have all of those hours been after i19? While Aim would help you hit, its a silly solution to a non-issue. Slot Benumb properly because a) you don't need a lot of slots to do so, b) there are plenty of other places to skimp on slots and c) its frigging Benumb. Then you don't need to rely on Aim or defense debuffs or whatever other nonsense. Plus, I've got Benumb slotted for Acc and Aim in my build. That gives me much better chances to land Benumb when it'll count. |
You call using Aim a silly solution. I call slotting accuracy a silly waste of slots.
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No, Aim is there to be used as an additional tohit buff for when I need it, for Benumb or other powers. For my slotting, Aim is pure bonus. For your slotting, its making up for the power being underslotted.
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Originally Posted by Crazy_Larry
Yeah, I missed that part. But how is using Aim a silly solution? It's there, ready to be used. Are you just going to sit on it because you have accuracy slotted in Benumb? Is there some scenario where you're not allowed to use Aim?
You call using Aim a silly solution. I call slotting accuracy a silly waste of slots. |
Support Guides for all Corruptor secondaries and Fortunatas
The Melee Teaming Guide for Melee Mans
The Melee Teaming Guide for Melee Mans
Just for formality and completeness:
Including Aim, without slotting to-hit buff enhancements in it, gets Benumb to 93%.
35% global Acc on top of that gets it to the to-hit cap of 95%.
Global = Hedgefund (or some derivation thereof)
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Well then it's just a matter of perspective. Because what you said doesn't actually mean anything. |
Originally Posted by Silas
No, Aim is there to be used as an additional tohit buff for when I need it, for Benumb or other powers. For my slotting, Aim is pure bonus. For your slotting, its making up for the power being underslotted.
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In the end, both Benumbs are hitting. You get to neglect a power (I guess? Not sure how you use Aim then.) I get two extra slots.
Well after reading someone raving about one of these, I decided to make one. She is a HUGE amount of fun. Just at Patron Arc level right now but I'm planning for her level 50 build.
My plan was perma-benumb and perma-heatloss. With decent defence. My fire/dark corr and d3 def feel more solid than my rad/rad corr and I think it's because the former two are softcapped while the rad is about 35% def.
I'm not the worlds best frankenslotter so no doubt there could be some improvments there.
Below gets me the permas (with Spiritual Alpha) which I wanted but it is quite expensive for me. I generally go cheap as possible but will splurge if it's worth it so I'm pretty open-minded if anyone has any comments. Think I should be good with 10% def; fine, please say so!
Thank you for your time.
(Yes I have had a look at the other fire/cold thread too.)
Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.93
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Pernio: Level 50 Mutation Corruptor
Primary Power Set: Fire Blast
Secondary Power Set: Cold Domination
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Flight
Ancillary Pool: Mace Mastery
Villain Profile:
Level 1: Fire Blast -- Apoc-Dmg(A), Apoc-Dmg/Rchg(3), Apoc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(5), Apoc-Acc/Rchg(13), Apoc-Dmg/EndRdx(31)
Level 1: Infrigidate -- P'ngTtl-EndRdx/Rchg/Slow(A)
Level 2: Fire Ball -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(3), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(5), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(15), Posi-Dam%(23)
Level 4: Snow Storm -- P'ngTtl-Acc/EndRdx(A), P'ngTtl--Rchg%(13), P'ngTtl-Acc/Slow(34), P'ngTtl-Dmg/Slow(39), P'ngTtl-Rng/Slow(40), P'ngTtl-EndRdx/Rchg/Slow(46)
Level 6: Rain of Fire -- Posi-Dam%(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(7), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(7), Posi-Dmg/Rng(25), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(27)
Level 8: Fire Breath -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(9), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(9), Posi-Dam%(15), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(25)
Level 10: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(11), RechRdx-I(11)
Level 12: Aim -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 14: Maneuvers -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(17), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(40), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(43)
Level 16: Boxing -- Amaze-Stun(A), Amaze-Stun/Rchg(17), Amaze-Acc/Stun/Rchg(33), Amaze-Acc/Rchg(48), Amaze-EndRdx/Stun(50)
Level 18: Blaze -- Thundr-Acc/Dmg(A), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx(19), Thundr-Dmg/Rchg(19), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(21), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(27), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(37)
Level 20: Arctic Fog -- RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(A), RedFtn-Def/Rchg(21), RedFtn-EndRdx/Rchg(36), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(40), RedFtn-Def(43), RedFtn-EndRdx(48)
Level 22: Flares -- Thundr-Acc/Dmg(A), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx(23), Thundr-Dmg/Rchg(31), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(34), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(45)
Level 24: Ice Shield -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 26: Glacial Shield -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 28: Benumb -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(29), RechRdx-I(31)
Level 30: Tough -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), S'fstPrt-ResKB(34), S'fstPrt-ResDam/EndRdx(37)
Level 32: Frostwork -- Numna-Heal/EndRdx(A), Numna-Heal/Rchg(33)
Level 35: Sleet -- Ragnrk-Dmg(A), Ragnrk-Dmg/Rchg(36), Ragnrk-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(36), Ragnrk-Acc/Rchg(37), Ragnrk-Dmg/EndRdx(50), Achilles-ResDeb%(50)
Level 38: Heat Loss -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(39), Efficacy-EndMod/Rchg(39), Efficacy-EndMod/EndRdx(45), Efficacy-EndMod(46)
Level 41: Scorpion Shield -- RedFtn-Def(A), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(42), RedFtn-Def/Rchg(42), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(42), RedFtn-EndRdx(43), RedFtn-EndRdx/Rchg(45)
Level 44: Weave -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(A), LkGmblr-Def(46), LkGmblr-Rchg+(48)
Level 47: Hover -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 49: Super Speed -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 50: Spiritual Core Paragon
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Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Scourge
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- P'Shift-End%(A), P'Shift-EndMod(29)
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