No, I use Aim all the time.
Let me put it this way, what are you doing with those two slots which could otherwise go in Benumb that's more important than ensuring one of your two best debuffs lands? And why couldn't those slots be taken from a less important power?
Support Guides for all Corruptor secondaries and Fortunatas
The Melee Teaming Guide for Melee Mans
The Melee Teaming Guide for Melee Mans
Quote:
You keep implying that my Benumb is underslotted, but again, I think we're viewing it from two different perspectives. From my perspective, it isn't underslotted at all because a scenario does not exist in which I cannot use Aim first. From my perspective, Aim might as well have a 67% to hit bonus attached to it. |
Originally Posted by Silas
No, I use Aim all the time.
Let me put it this way, what are you doing with those two slots which could otherwise go in Benumb that's more important than ensuring one of your two best debuffs lands? And why couldn't those slots be taken from a less important power? |
Those two slots may have gone to any number of places where I decided to take advantage of some needed set bonus.
Well, whatever works for you. This doesn't seem like an issue we're gonna get anywhere on, (especially if we already had this discussion a year ago, haha), so let's just agree to disagree.
Sorry for the derail, OP.
Support Guides for all Corruptor secondaries and Fortunatas
The Melee Teaming Guide for Melee Mans
The Melee Teaming Guide for Melee Mans
Quote:
Which has an even lower DPS than the 2 attack chains I listed.
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Originally Posted by Crazy_Larry
Fire Blast -> Blaze -> Fire Blast -> Fire Ball -> Fire Blast (Blaze is recharged here after one cycle, but using it throws off the chain if you continue for more than one cycle) -> Blaze, etc.
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[U][URL="http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=251594"][/URL][/U]
Quote:
But I don't take Flares. |
Originally Posted by Fiery-Enforcer
Which has an even lower DPS than the 2 attack chains I listed.
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I'd be curious to know how much lower it is, though.
EDIT: Just I just noticed that the OP does take Flares. My apologies. I should skim less.
Quote:
You could certainly make the case for not taking Flares.|
Originally Posted by Crazy_Larry
But I don't take Flares.
I'd be curious to know how much lower it is, though. EDIT: Just I just noticed that the OP does take Flares. My apologies. I should skim less. |
I needed it to take down a Pylon.
Of course, in these days of Incarnates, who cares about Pylons ... there are scrappers out there pounding out 500+ DPS, which is just amazing.
Quote:
Yeah, I've just never -felt- like Flares was needed. A fire/cold's attack chain is often interrupted by so many other things that I never really focused in on what is the absolute best DPS. I'd be curious to know what all I'm missing out on, if anything. Currently I run 100% rech + Hasten and Musculature. Fire Blast is slotted with 5 Apocs (minus the dmg) and a Glad Jav proc.|
Originally Posted by Rad_Avenger
You could certainly make the case for not taking Flares.
I needed it to take down a Pylon. Of course, in these days of Incarnates, who cares about Pylons ... there are scrappers out there pounding out 500+ DPS, which is just amazing. |
And I've taken down a Pylon without Flares in under 5 minutes.
Quote:
I don't think you're missing out on much. In "real life" teaming, you're hardly ever going to be using a single attack chain, right? And if you're soloing the pylon in under 5 minutes, you're not missing Flares.|
Originally Posted by Crazy_Larry
Yeah, I've just never -felt- like Flares was needed. A fire/cold's attack chain is often interrupted by so many other things that I never really focused in on what is the absolute best DPS. I'd be curious to know what all I'm missing out on, if anything. Currently I run 100% rech + Hasten and Musculature. Fire Blast is slotted with 5 Apocs (minus the dmg) and a Glad Jav proc.
And I've taken down a Pylon without Flares in under 5 minutes. |
Last time I tried, I was using the inefficient attack chain of Blaze-Flares-FBlast-Flares (in retrospect, horrid, should have swapped the two lower tier blasts), and I still did it in 5:23. I'll take the Blaze-Fblast-Flares build and see how it does. I use the Spiritual Alpha, but you may be making a compelling case for Musculature.
Quote:
I didn't save the numbers, but it wasn't anything major, something like 10 or 12 DPS difference.|
Originally Posted by Crazy_Larry
But I don't take Flares.
I'd be curious to know how much lower it is, though. EDIT: Just I just noticed that the OP does take Flares. My apologies. I should skim less. |
Flares certainly isn't needed, but if you have it I would use it. Can also substitute Fireball for Flares when it's up since it does a little more damage.
Edit:
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Rad_Avenger
Last time I tried, I was using the inefficient attack chain of Blaze-Flares-FBlast-Flares (in retrospect, horrid, should have swapped the two lower tier blasts), and I still did it in 5:23. I'll take the Blaze-Fblast-Flares build and see how it does. I use the Spiritual Alpha, but you may be making a compelling case for Musculature.
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[U][URL="http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=251594"][/URL][/U]
If anyone has any commentary relating to the updated build I posted in post 12, I would appreciate it. 
Although I am also tempted by 4) Drop maneouvres and take Snow Storm.
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Here's my build for reference Capa ...
Code:
Yes my Apocs are in Blaze, since as a few people have mentioned before, with all the debuffing (Sleet, Benumb, HL, Infrig), and shielding it's usually quite rare that I find my self just standing there spamming an attack chain. I guess this is also because I hardly ever solo so in teams attack-wise, I'm usually just throwing out Blaze/Fireball/Fire Breath. Also I realise my Acc in HL is low but I do tend to hit Aim before I cast it and I have +48% Global Acc. | Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1440;695;1390;HEX;| |78DA6593EB6E124114C76761299642015B7AA3D096D2722B0B9BD64BD5C4A4AD265| |550A8261ABF900D4CDB4DEA2E5968BC7CF2018CF19AAAF52DBC46A3B5BE8F9737C0| |B3E74C81860DCC6FF6BFE73667668AF7D7BC8C3DBAC824FFEA8ED66854564DCBDAA| |D374DCB55D4B6F4AA5CBA673C7433C6C2ED0F950DCDD8E235E5B26EF1CA0A3835A3| |9D6F2BBB9B9BCAAAB953ABAC997775436BEAA6115C37B6B9C58DA67234F1944C734| |7B951E7BCE6C36991D7F4AA6E702FBE15B856D78D2DFFD14B8D5B8D6DBD1EBE54D7| |AB4A275751AB72181A4D6E3D188312D3F04F3898785A32DBB305E6784D788390DF1| |2F6115FA5B6B9832D036427EB3BE221C41A6249182511515A8417959D58229C4278| |4E13CE20BE81AD53983B43922D79870901C4F01820C2B2A38859E8AD8BCC99AB0F2| |3C440724B54933BC36C69F018BEC3C77E51743FA508508A00A5C8409C016130B08F| |AB38F98E40112290C227B2FAE2284D81E41775FBAF4A7673860B186DB288485C43E| |4AE2316205C509807B358F78842C821C6F2041591C6EC68EE1A7A8F09A35F10331F| |11F14F84CF88441A9102AF90481222AFE90F04F29A1631C8EB002A1BA5C6C9A383D| |8DE490F563B338098F523E23EC408AC789CCCD938B5F1278C61D1B830B56A9E9098| |4004C12722F626423E516A7D945A6FF7604A943C7516D79E5B269C43A8E70917108| |7E01413096374DE6629A1C02F3098C3F3D772CE1DAB68FE0946483D46D4E1CC2545| |61492A2C4585A5A830130C326207324F690F9F119E63AB165EE05BF625E115E2078| |C8A38280AE51D8216E44992F274B8543A5C9372FB32395999D92B4B97081B849B88| |42C70E7EF0B092DCBE634C4265BD63D3EA0FB4EF48ABECB1F3D2FC56D7FC76D7FC4| |ED7FC37CC25B1C9521617F0A75B4AA2F4B75BBA8287FF5F477248D3683521B0871D| |CFF7AC22DDA3A83DCA528FB2D8A394E1A6A8A2FEFF8AA8E4B2| |-------------------------------------------------------------------|
I also find Aid Self pretty damn useful sometimes, and I don't feel I've sacrificed very much to work it into the build anyway. I am Tier 4 Spiritual slotted for the recharge and heal (and stun) basically so my debuffs come back even quicker. I'm think some people might get annoyed with the end torubles playing this toon, but I have Heat Loss up 95% of the time anyway.
On the build you posted in Post #12:
- I wouldn't bother with the PotT proc in Infrigidate. And I'd just slot a Lysoome in there for some Acc and -Def. If you were going to proc it put in the Achilles' Heel imo.
- Arctic Fog is overslotted for defence, so throw some resist in there if you can spare the slots. I would take out both of the GotA's and use them somewhere else. (I used them to flesh out Aim and Hasten with a little more rech.)
- I see you'eve gone for quite a lot of end red in your attacks, but Stamina is slotted pretty poorly. I would put in 2 End Mod IO's and then the perf shifer proc.
- I changed your slotting in Heat Loss to be a little more efficient and save a slot.
- I assume Hover is personal preference, but I get a lot more mileage out of SS+CJ, and then you can just by a temp. power Raptor Pack.
- If you can afford them, Enzymes are very useful to save some slots. (E.g in Scorp Shield)
- Also I like having Sleet with a little more recharge in it
Hope some of this helps. And here's your build with some of the changes I suggested..
Code:
| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1444;716;1432;HEX;| |78DA6593594F1A5114C7EF85510117401615144551906580686BFAD226624D4C340| |1AC6DD3174264C449E80C1986A47DEB17E853DBD8ED5B74B169D3C5A62F7DE847E9| |F2059AE999736E810412E677E79CFF59EEB9730FEEED4C30F6E01AE3DE52ABDEE9D| |44ABA6174DBA66EB80EBA66DD54756DB4AC189AAA8F31C6A23D6FAD5AD79A4A43DE| |550DA5B60D9166ACEFDBEE9E9CC825BDD5A8EDE877550DB3F8F7B453C5503453FEB| |FF09475BD251FB615A53189CB5DB5796AAA5AD38B6FFB4ABDA1189D53B53D4EDE96| |ED8E5E6FABC772BFD441FD588147C7548CFBB3D0611AFE4907133F4B62597829324| |70E21C988893C225640BCE73D39635700126329F090D91AE11B94628B526C22A62E| |21C29711C938B3B1062F4E51D8796677C2624F114BCF10F1E784978875908F88222| |3EFD034FA9AF00631FB1611394714A9481AA2C644D4D82BF4B828CA45519E73D44D| |51C61C452D43881B776439DC19D265D013246420ED38A5E5E324F0918743E824799| |C9365C032F35510E92A227B88F804E9BD628E5E0AB587EF1703F1D3DEA7692ED334| |9720CD25F202F1193204A84929F017B0C09682DC4EB4EE238410E9ABF62939991F3| |A0B894D85481826619A841FE03943F51D33B609664A8204C93FC2734E08E648202A| |2649F7059E51218866709FF3B4B75804E1841E16440F0B33DCEE393E8B4884112B2| |05814835D8C3AED98620471C1ED747492CBDF1C76F195EF04FBEC826CE5077E5D89| |0B408025A9EE57885AE51C8F63F5210AD69E101E23B28F106DA891128DA55CB8B57| |50991DDA28F5C0745469C4EE608837265421591AF106ED0970F1B91454299E69BA7| |591569566E101448C00A316C765E1AB85B16FCD8FE90A52CF5EE1AE368D9EB6B2CB| |7AF77A7AC9F1E508A023C87057E0D9A5268FADD37717E133B9B3842FCE97B1CFC0C| |3735BF44379750186A2E3D64290E5936872C1B43964A00F25369ABE2413BAE6F0DA| |C6F0FACEF0CACFF014129EAAE| |-------------------------------------------------------------------|
@Fail (Used to be @Tux) and @Tuxedo Infinitus Defiant/Freedom/Champion
Favourite Toons: Prosper [Ill/Rad] Controller :: Infinitus [Fire/Elec] Blaster :: Pocket Dynamo [Fire/Shield] Scr :: Fast [Cold/Sonic] Def ::
Inspire [Plant/Storm] Controller :: Quality - SS/Fire Brute :: Double Down [DP/Kin] Corr :: Pwnz [Fire/Cold] Corr :: Fail [Fire/Son] Corr
Quote:
(1) I really wouldn't drop Maneuvers for Snow Storm. From a cost/benefit/minmax perspective, Maneuvers is a better choice. But if you really, really like Snow Storm, then hey I wouldn't get in the way of your fun. |
Originally Posted by Capa_Devans
If anyone has any commentary relating to the updated build I posted in post 12, I would appreciate it.
Although I am also tempted by 4) Drop maneouvres and take Snow Storm. |
(2) I assume you otherwise like your power picks. Below are some generally nitpicky slotting comments.
Level 1: Infrigidate -- ShldBrk-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(A), P'ngTtl--Rchg%(17)
I used to use Lysosomes here (back when I actually used infridgidate). Now I have it slotted with two Lady Grey's, purely for the 1.5% HP bonus. I just use the power so rarely. If I were going to use it, I would go 1 Lysosome and 1 Achilles proc.
Level 4: Flares -- Decim-Acc/Dmg(A), Decim-Dmg/EndRdx(31), Decim-Dmg/Rchg(33), Decim-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(34), Decim-Build%(34)
The buildup proc is pretty meh, but its definitely cheaper than the Acc/Dam/Rech if cost is a concern. Although you can get the Acc/Dam/Rech for about 1-2 mill with patient bidding.
Level 6: Rain of Fire -- Posi-Dam%(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(7), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(7), Posi-Dmg/Rng(25), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(27), EndRdx-I(50)
Rain of Fire is my bread and butter. Sleet + RoF on every spawn. Ergo ... needs more recharge. I would swap the EndRdx for a Rech IO
Level 16: Frostwork -- HO:Golgi(A)
Expensive, when a common heal/rech IO will do the trick (IMO)
Level 22: Maneuvers -- LkGmblr-Def(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(23), LkGmblr-Rchg+(43)
Don't drop it!
Level 35: Sleet -- UndDef-DefDeb/Rchg/EndRdx(A), LdyGrey-DefDeb/Rchg/EndRdx(36), Posi-Dam%(36), LdyGrey-%Dam(36), Achilles-ResDeb%(37), UndDef-Rchg/EndRdx(40)
As discussed above, bread-and-butter, max recharge! I would swap the posi proc for a recharge IO
Level 38: Heat Loss -- Efficacy-EndMod/Rchg(A), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc/Rchg(39), P'Shift-Acc/Rchg(39), RechRdx-I(39), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(45)
Conversely, you slotting here gives you sufficient recharge slotting ... I would swap the RechRdx for an Efficacy Adaptor triple for the 1.125% HP (although you may be over that already, didn't check)
Also, Tux's advice is rock solid. And as an added bonus, Tux's Fire/Cold has a great name.
Thanks Rad!
And yeah, I love my name
One more thing, like the RoF slotting that Rad suggested, I'd just go for recharge. Heat Loss solves all your end troubles, and it's up most of the time.
@Fail (Used to be @Tux) and @Tuxedo Infinitus Defiant/Freedom/Champion
Favourite Toons: Prosper [Ill/Rad] Controller :: Infinitus [Fire/Elec] Blaster :: Pocket Dynamo [Fire/Shield] Scr :: Fast [Cold/Sonic] Def ::
Inspire [Plant/Storm] Controller :: Quality - SS/Fire Brute :: Double Down [DP/Kin] Corr :: Pwnz [Fire/Cold] Corr :: Fail [Fire/Son] Corr
Took the Fire/Cold out for a spin last night.
On the I19 build with Rare Alpha, was able to run Blaze-Fblast-Flares Chain (one apoc proc, two glad jav procs) and took down the pylon at 4:00 mark.
For I20, added a reactive interface (just tier 1) and shaved 27 seconds off. Go -res? Will try again tonight after slotting a tier 2 reactive.
Will be a while till I get below two minutes though ... getting and slotting a Lore pet is a ways a way, and that appears to be where the Scrappers are getting the big DPS from.
What are you guys tactics on pylon soloing on your fire/cold.
I was waiting for a LGTF team to fill up the other day and was playing around with a pylon. I was definately going to take it down but about the 4-5 minute mark I was about only half done when I stoped because the team filled up and the first mission was up.
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Halfway at the 4-5 minute mark is not bad at all. Better than most pre-I19 Scrappers. And you would have finished faster due to Scourge.|
Originally Posted by MajorTractor
What are you guys tactics on pylon soloing on your fire/cold.
I was waiting for a LGTF team to fill up the other day and was playing around with a pylon. I was definately going to take it down but about the 4-5 minute mark I was about only half done when I stoped because the team filled up and the first mission was up. |
Specific keys for me (others may have other tactics, would love to hear them):
- Have a pet. The Disruptor Bot adds a non-neglible amount of damage. A corollary is "buff the pet before going in" and another is "stand on the other side of pylon so that the pet isn't killed with AoE splash damage".
- Keep Benumb up. -500% regen is what the Dr. ordered.
- 45% Lethal Defense or 45% Ranged Defense. I have Lethal in my build because of the Scorpion Shield.
- Have a good attack chain. Corollary: Have good procs. For me the apoc proc is a must. Corollary: Have the global recharge necessary to run your chosen attack chain. Another corollary: Have the right incarnate buffs. I have Spiritual but I am seriously thinking about musculature based on Crazy_Larry's comments.
Honestly, those are my keys. The pet really helps. I didn't even think about it until DSorrow PM'd me his cold/sonic defender build.
Also, at about the 33% mark, I include Rain of Fire in my attack chain for the triple scourge. Sooo nice to see the pylon explode in the midst of RoF. This may actually be sub-optimal, I haven't test it vs. a pure single target string.
I just did some testing tonight. Without lore pets: 3:45. This is with Musculature, T3 Reactive (proc, not -res) and using, primarily FB, Blaze, FB, Fire Ball attack chain (no flares or patron pets. 1 Apoc proc and 1 Glad Jav proc, both in Fire Blast. I'm not really spec'd to kill pylons.)
With T4 Lore pets (Boss + Invincible support, Clockwork): 1:20 - Wow.
Quote:
Still need to work my way up to the T3 reactive ... only got T2 last night. I sense some Lambdas and BAFs in my future. Interesting that you were able to get really close to my time and I have the Patron pet out. I may have to reconsider Musculature / no Flares, interesting data point!|
Originally Posted by Crazy_Larry
I just did some testing tonight. Without lore pets: 3:45. This is with Musculature, T3 Reactive (proc, not -res) and using, primarily FB, Blaze, FB, Fire Ball attack chain (no flares or patron pets. 1 Apoc proc and 1 Glad Jav proc, both in Fire Blast. I'm not really spec'd to kill pylons.)
With T4 Lore pets (Boss + Invincible support, Clockwork): 1:20 - Wow. |
The T4 pets ... Wow. I mean, wow. That's amazing. So you like the Clockwork pets? Haven't opened Lore yet, was thinking the Warworks pets looked boss (that's what the Scrappers all seem to have, lol), but man if you're in the 1 minute range, the Clocks look to be just as good.
Thanks for sharing.
Quote:
It's hard to say about the Lore Pets. I took Clockwork because A) I felt like they were all equally good with slight advantages and disadvantages, B) I knew I liked the Mender's healing/buffing abilities in particular, and C) I thought they were the coolest. |
Originally Posted by Rad_Avenger
Still need to work my way up to the T3 reactive ... only got T2 last night. I sense some Lambdas and BAFs in my future. Interesting that you were able to get really close to my time and I have the Patron pet out. I may have to reconsider Musculature / no Flares, interesting data point!
The T4 pets ... Wow. I mean, wow. That's amazing. So you like the Clockwork pets? Haven't opened Lore yet, was thinking the Warworks pets looked boss (that's what the Scrappers all seem to have, lol), but man if you're in the 1 minute range, the Clocks look to be just as good. Thanks for sharing. |
I will say that the boss hits hard as hell with Musculature and my debuffs. Like, REALLY hard. In another test I solo'd Chimara in under a minute, and I saw a 1000+ dmg attack fly off at one point. I don't know if Victoria hits harder, but if she does, it's going to be ridiculous for a toon like a /cold.
EDIT: And keep in mind that build has spared no expense, and it is rather expensive. But my feeling is that while Flares and the patron pet is optimal for DPS, perhaps they put you in a tough spot as far as slotting? I know having ~100% rech while maintaining soft cap can be pretty hard to achieve, and if you have less rech than that, you might need to stick with Spiritual. Not sure, but I can post my build if you want.
I guess I need to try again. My fire/cold is 44% s/l and ~40 ranged def, T3 spiritual alpha for basically perma benumb, heatloss, and stacking sleet. I think he wasn't lvl shifted on that first try and he's since gotten T2 reactive interface and T2 ion judgement. I'm not sure what his recharge is currently, but he's got 5 lotg 7.5's and near perma hasten from alpha so I guess about 40%-110% based on hasten (I think its only down for a couple seconds.)
Should I be spamming sleet? I'd think the debuff is worth the long animation time....
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Crazy_Larry
EDIT: And keep in mind that build has spared no expense, and it is rather expensive. But my feeling is that while Flares and the patron pet is optimal for DPS, perhaps they put you in a tough spot as far as slotting? I know having ~100% rech while maintaining soft cap can be pretty hard to achieve, and if you have less rech than that, you might need to stick with Spiritual. Not sure, but I can post my build if you want.
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Your build has perma Heatloss and Benumb? If so, I would really like to take a look if possible. Because mine even with 106.3% Global Recharge, or 176.3% with Hasten (which is perma), I was not able to achieve perma Heatloss/Benumb without using the T4 Spiritual Alpha. Benumb was 3.3 Second off perma and Heatloss is like 8 seconds off without the Spiritual.
Benumb has 83.3% Recharge in it, and Heatloss has 91.7% Recharge. Adding another pure recharge IO to Benumb only cuts less than half a second of the recharge, and Heatloss loses on like 2.3 seconds off.P
P.S: My build has 33% Ranged defence and 20% to everything else, BTW.
@Sparky Jenkins || Freedom Server | Union Server
Main Hero: Inferno Sparky - Fire/Fire Blaster
Main Villain: Kerry Astrid - Fire/Cold Corruptor
Quote:
The animation time isn't that bad, but the debuff is definitely worth it. Just keep in mind that Sleet/Freezing Rain are bugged and the debuff will only last 15 seconds if the target doesn't get out of the rain range within 15 seconds. And since the Pylon is stationary it will never be doing that, lol. So Sleet Debuff will need to be cast every 15 seconds to keep the debuff up.
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Originally Posted by MajorTractor
Should I be spamming sleet? I'd think the debuff is worth the long animation time....
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@Sparky Jenkins || Freedom Server | Union Server
Main Hero: Inferno Sparky - Fire/Fire Blaster
Main Villain: Kerry Astrid - Fire/Cold Corruptor
Might trade out one of my two travel powers for it, would have to think about it.