LFG tool...not that useful
By
Aliana Blue,
Posted on: 2011-04-06 04:48 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Well, for one thing that other MMO doesn't have any instance content except for the dungeons. If you're doing anything else, you're in the shared world with all the other players who aren't in an instance. I have no idea if their LFG tool will work if you're in a PVP match, which is the only other instanced content that game has. The difference is, it's not as apparent there, because *everything* is basically street sweeping, with a handful of "Task Force" dungeons here and there.
This is something of a concern for me, as well. One of the perks of the LFT system was - as I interpreted it - that you could wait for a team without having to drop what you're doing. I haven't queued up for a raid yet (my character is level 28-ish), but if I did, I wouldn't want to sit on my hands waiting for it.
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Also, is there any way to find out what Team Search colours mean IN-GAME?
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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You can be yanked out of one Battleground when the other Battleground you signed up for starts, I know this much. That's out of one instance and into another, not "when it's finished" or "you have to leave first."
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Originally Posted by ShadowsBetween
Well, for one thing that other MMO doesn't have any instance content except for the dungeons. If you're doing anything else, you're in the shared world with all the other players who aren't in an instance. I have no idea if their LFG tool will work if you're in a PVP match, which is the only other instanced content that game has. The difference is, it's not as apparent there, because *everything* is basically street sweeping, with a handful of "Task Force" dungeons here and there.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Yup, you can leap from one instance to another in that MMO, you can even leap from 'dungeon taskforce' to another as well. |
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
You can be yanked out of one Battleground when the other Battleground you signed up for starts, I know this much. That's out of one instance and into another, not "when it's finished" or "you have to leave first."
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So it works even while instanced.
Yes. Seeing the LFG tool in action in its current incarnation in a "boots on the ground" live server situation as opposed to an intensive brief test now or don't test at all window of a highly populated event focused beta reveals a number of problems.
Hopefully though now that the sub structure for the tool is in place, it can readily be tweaked and improved upon.
Till then, I suspect many people will ignore the tool (as you can't even get invited to a LEAGUE that is preparing to run the trial you've queued for while being queued!!!) and just team up socially in order to get close to full capacity leagues running these events.
One obvious improvement: when toggling the "league mode" for the player search tool, it should have options to display all character who are queued for various trials, indicating which trial (or the "first available" as that is an option) the player is lined up for. Maybe it should even list how long said player has been in the queue. Then a league master should be able to use this to invite players to form a full league more readily--and the invitees should ABSOLUTELY not have to unqueue themselves to get an invitation to the league.
Edit: And once some of the social engineering meets tool functionality kinks are worked out (if they do actually work at improving the tool and how it is accepted), the results should absolutely be ported over to the arena rolling matches queues. In fact, a sub menu on the LFG tab for Arena PVP queuing would be an excellent addition eventually IMO. (Yes I realize there are tons of problems with PVP still and I don't want to restart that discussion and debate here. I'm just asserting that an easy to use, well functioning tool would definitely help bring more bodies and casually PVP curious into the pipeline. Something that works better than the currently arcane arena tool where you sign up for rolling matches on most server never to see any actually happen.)
What IS that "League Mode" toggle on the team search screen, by the way? I saw no mention of that in the patch notes (I could have missed it) and toggling it on and off and running searches with it on and off reveals no difference and gleans no insight into how it works or what it does.
Does it... Change team flag colours... Somehow? Show or hide people who are on... Leagues? What?
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I wouldn't mind a few changes...
Show the number of players currently in the queue for each trial.
Change the timer to 3 or 5 minutes.
Allow people to do whatever they want while queued, but when the timer shows up, they have to go to a public zone before they can enter.
Why do people feel the need to run solo missions while they're queued? If you want to run a Trial, you're telling folks that you're ready to go when the thing starts. If you're in the middle of a mission, you're not ready.
Take that time to market if you need to be doing something. Or better yet, be active by forming a League to run the trial instead of waiting for the Turnstile to send you in.
Loose --> not tight.
Lose --> Did not win, misplace, cannot find, subtract.
One extra 'o' makes a big difference.
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Originally Posted by White Hot Flash
Why do people feel the need to run solo missions while they're queued? If you want to run a Trial, you're telling folks that you're ready to go when the thing starts. If you're in the middle of a mission, you're not ready.
Take that time to market if you need to be doing something. Or better yet, be active by forming a League to run the trial instead of waiting for the Turnstile to send you in. |
I kinda agree here. Why not just street-sweep if you want to be earning drops etc while you wait?
Expecting to be in a mission adds to many wrinkles to the LFG system and could potentially slow the whole formation of a league down.
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Because this feature exists in other games.
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Originally Posted by White Hot Flash
Why do people feel the need to run solo missions while they're queued?
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This is your chance to visit the Bloody Bay Security Chief and take that tour of the AE building you've been putting off. |
Originally Posted by Dr_Mechano
Right explain to me why there was a design decision that meant you can't run missions while being queued in the LFG tool?
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Unfortunately, you would be wrong here. No other MMO on the commercial market has the majority of it's gameplay content delivered inside of instanced missions. Most MMO's on the market use the queuing system to gate access / entry from Open-World content into instanced events. |
Originally Posted by Gemini_2099
Because this feature exists in other games.
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Case in point would be WarHammer Online. You can join a queue for an Instanced PvP event, but all of your questing takes place in an open-world.
To the extent of adding a feature that other games have, Paragon Studios has delivered what other games have.
Unfortunately, what you, and apparently the OP want, goes BEYOND the feature other games offer. No other MMO, that I'm aware of, allows you to queu for one instance, while inside of another instance.
For sake of clarity, we'll call these improvement "Nested Instancing" and "Nested Instancing Queuing"
- Nested: You are inside of a pre-existing instance
- Instancing: You are requesting to go from one instance to another instance
- Queuing: You are willing to submit your character status to wait on an instance that has not yet been created
Actually, there's a very good change Paragon Studios would be the first as no other commercial game available has a need for such tech. Unfortunately, implementing that type of tech is probably going to take more work as it is a considerable step over what other games offer.
There are some other benefits to developing "Nested Instancing" and "Nested Instancing Queuing". One such benefit would be the ability to go ahead and provisionally join teams from inside an existing mission. That would put an end to the "i'm in a mission, join your task force / mission team when I get clear" types of messages. Players could just click a button to queu for a team and then auto-join when they exit the mission.
I don't like it but for a totally different reason. I can understand (even if i don't like it) why we can't be in a mission while on the queue.
However completing Lambada with a 8 man PUG league is nigh imposable right now. Any more iTrials I do I will start by foruming my own full 2 team league. Which means that the new LFG system is USELESS for the iTrials it was made for...
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"Hypocrisy, the human inherent." "Let not this work be wasted, apply yourself always."
Your habit to jump head first without looking isn't a good idea.
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The majority of content with the market leader with end game is instanced, as well as PVP (Of course I wouldn't call phase technology instanced but that is debatable). Furthermore you can jump into another instance while already in another (eg PVP 1 instance jump to PVP queue 2).
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Originally Posted by je_saist
Unfortunately, you would be wrong here. No other MMO on the commercial market has the majority of it's gameplay content delivered inside of instanced missions. Most MMO's on the market use the queuing system to gate access / entry from Open-World content into instanced events.
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Yes, I am. When I spot a call for a TF and I'm in the middle of a mission, I exit the instance, I get invited and I join the TF. Requesting that I "commit" as some kind of formal statement is unnecessary, pompous and above all needlessly limiting. If a person can be yanked out of an instance - something that needs to happen - then that person is ready enough.|
Originally Posted by White Hot Flash
Why do people feel the need to run solo missions while they're queued? If you want to run a Trial, you're telling folks that you're ready to go when the thing starts. If you're in the middle of a mission, you're not ready.
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Why are we going out of our way to browbeat people asking for greater accessibility and greater comfort with what amounts to excuses? That this doesn't exist now is not the end of the world, but this is still something that SHOULD be worked on. Arguments to the contrary only serve to stifle the game's progress.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Yes, I am. When I spot a call for a TF and I'm in the middle of a mission, I exit the instance, I get invited and I join the TF. Requesting that I "commit" as some kind of formal statement is unnecessary, pompous and above all needlessly limiting. If a person can be yanked out of an instance - something that needs to happen - then that person is ready enough.
Why are we going out of our way to browbeat people asking for greater accessibility and greater comfort with what amounts to excuses? That this doesn't exist now is not the end of the world, but this is still something that SHOULD be worked on. Arguments to the contrary only serve to stifle the game's progress. |
I'd agree with Sam here, if you are going to allow In-mission people to join queues then they would have to be automatically yanked out as soon as the Queue says so.
Any form of "you have two minutes to leave the mission" complicates things too much.
I'd also still be worried that there aren't certain mission types or settings where an "auto-leave" mechanism could foul up. The ones that spring to mind would be MA and Ouro missions as they use the TF set-up.
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I'm not browbeating about accessibility, I'm arguing that it doesn't need to be worked on because people are making an issue out of something that is entirely their own making, not the new feature.|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Yes, I am. When I spot a call for a TF and I'm in the middle of a mission, I exit the instance, I get invited and I join the TF. Requesting that I "commit" as some kind of formal statement is unnecessary, pompous and above all needlessly limiting. If a person can be yanked out of an instance - something that needs to happen - then that person is ready enough.
Why are we going out of our way to browbeat people asking for greater accessibility and greater comfort with what amounts to excuses? That this doesn't exist now is not the end of the world, but this is still something that SHOULD be worked on. Arguments to the contrary only serve to stifle the game's progress. |
Where would people put this on the grand scale of Important Things to Work On? I'm betting fairly low, even for the people wanting this.
To ask you a similar question, why are people going out of their way to nitpick about how a feature isn't exactly how they want it when it works just fine the way it is? Why are they calling out references to "the other games" to support their points when those same people are lamenting that CoH is slowly turning into "those other games" by focusing on endgame?
Loose --> not tight.
Lose --> Did not win, misplace, cannot find, subtract.
One extra 'o' makes a big difference.
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If you are putting in an endgame that looks like those other games, then you better have a lot of the same features from those other games.
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Originally Posted by White Hot Flash
I'm not browbeating about accessibility, I'm arguing that it doesn't need to be worked on because people are making an issue out of something that is entirely their own making, not the new feature.
Where would people put this on the grand scale of Important Things to Work On? I'm betting fairly low, even for the people wanting this. To ask you a similar question, why are people going out of their way to nitpick about how a feature isn't exactly how they want it when it works just fine the way it is? Why are they calling out references to "the other games" to support their points when those same people are lamenting that CoH is slowly turning into "those other games" by focusing on endgame? |
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Don't deny us our humor. |
Originally Posted by Gemini_2099
Your habit to jump head first without looking isn't a good idea.
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So, let me get this straight...."I'd like to join a trial if one forms but I'm using the queue because I don't want to sit around twiddling my thumbs waiting for enough other people to want to do one" is not a valid reason to have a queue in the first place?|
Originally Posted by White Hot Flash
I'm not browbeating about accessibility, I'm arguing that it doesn't need to be worked on because people are making an issue out of something that is entirely their own making, not the new feature.
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And about that other thing....missions will reset if you leave them to go do something else. So you'll have to go through the first half of the mission again. Big deal. If you don't want to do that, don't start a mission while you're in a queue. Stand around twiddling your thumbs, I don't care what you do, but I'd like to do something and I can see myself getting bored of the RWZ.
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I see no problem with being insta-yanked out of your instance. I'd personally like to see a prompt telling you "You will be auto-zoned into a Trial. You have 30 seconds to forefit your place in the queue." but under no circumstances do I even WANT to see people prompted to leave their instance. You don't rely on player participation. You give them a small window to opt out and then you force them into the event they signed up for, in-mission or out.|
Originally Posted by Carnifax_NA
I'd agree with Sam here, if you are going to allow In-mission people to join queues then they would have to be automatically yanked out as soon as the Queue says so.
Any form of "you have two minutes to leave the mission" complicates things too much. I'd also still be worried that there aren't certain mission types or settings where an "auto-leave" mechanism could foul up. The ones that spring to mind would be MA and Ouro missions as they use the TF set-up. |
If I signed up for an event, then I take responsibility to be available for it. If I happen to be interrupted in the middle of something else, then tough. That something else gets put off or reset.
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Originally Posted by White Hot Flash
To ask you a similar question, why are people going out of their way to nitpick about how a feature isn't exactly how they want it when it works just fine the way it is? Why are they calling out references to "the other games" to support their points when those same people are lamenting that CoH is slowly turning into "those other games" by focusing on endgame?
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In order for this to be meaningful, I need to be able to wait for such an opportunity without giving up the opportunity to do other things. Granted, "these two Trials" are all the LFT system can handle right now, but I hope and pray that it expands to encompass at least regular TFs some day. And when that day comes and I want to play, say, the Faatim the Kind TF, then I may need to wait for it for days. I want to sign up for this and be signed up for it the whole time I'm on, so that if the opportunity presents itself, I don't miss it.
Consider that I want to see LFT act very much like the "Looking for" setting we have now. If I'm "looking for" a particular TF, then as soon as enough people looking form up, one gets going. THAT would get me to team, and team a lot.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Currently you do get a prompt to enter the event, so I don't see how anything would have to change.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
I see no problem with being insta-yanked out of your instance. I'd personally like to see a prompt telling you "You will be auto-zoned into a Trial. You have 30 seconds to forefit your place in the queue." but under no circumstances do I even WANT to see people prompted to leave their instance. You don't rely on player participation. You give them a small window to opt out and then you force them into the event they signed up for, in-mission or out.
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Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper
Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World
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I gotta say I agree as well. For example, if I were using the LFG too as intended, I would first market and clear out my inventory, which I did. Then when 6-7 minutes had passed, I said "whelp, guess I run a quick tip mission or two till this new trial thingie kicks in."|
Originally Posted by Carnifax_NA
I'd agree with Sam here
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Some of those missions literally take 2-5 minutes to finish for even slower players.
Upon finding that I couldn't jump into a mission while queued, I decided to get proactive and did as another poster suggests get involved in socially forming a team. (Global channels were down the first half of launch day -- or at least the first few hours.)
But the point of this thread is not to berate soloists or small teamers for waiting for the queue to form a trial for them rather than forming a league themselves. It is about the fact that this tool, which from the sounds of things, took a lot of back end development resources is rather useless in its current implementation.
Till it becomes more useful for anything other than filling out an off hours thread farm league that is 1 or 2 members shy of a trial launch, I'm sure I'll be relying as always on our server's global channels and local neutral meeting spots for forming trial leagues instead.
Right semi-necroing this because.
Well, the LFG tool seems kind of...pointless.
On Union EVERYTHING is premades, nobody uses the LFG tool or if they do, really rarely.
It seems that from what I hear on the US servers, they too are utilizing 80% pre-mades as well so.
It appears this fact of gathering and using premades surprised even the devs, I guess they all assumed everyone would just use the LFG tool to randomly join raids but the playerbase seems to have gone 'eh, rather just gather up in Pocket D/Rikti Warzone and go from there'.
So I ask once more, what's the point in the LFG tool again?
Right explain to me why there was a design decision that meant you can't run missions while being queued in the LFG tool?
So basically it's either, sit on my hands for about 10 minutes plus (on the EU servers here) pr solo while I wait for a BAF announcement in one of the global channels.
Doesn't that seem kind of stupid to anyone else. That other MMO, the big gorilla of the MMO world, has an LFG tool that's fire and forget, you turn it on, go do quests etc and it pops up after a time saying that there is now a space.
Why doesn't our LFG tool work like that?