Depending on if Commandoes went right over the trip mines and they still didn't go off.....and quicksand wasn't really slowing them either like I'm pretty sure I saw.....that'd be one hell of a stupid design if ground-based stuff doesn't affect them? (Edit: Just to clarify, this is far fetched but not out of the realm of possible. Earthquake does affect them however, so whatever the game mechanic behind powers such as quicksand/trip mine compared to EQ could be an issue? After another run or two, I'll have no questions regardless, but it's just fun having something to discuss again 
)
Radius on Trip mines is decent and pretty sure it's uniform through the various ATs. The pathways aren't that big* and pretty sure planted near the middle, the radius should cover the entire width (*going off 1 run and foggy memory).
I've already forgotten about most of you
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They charged right through my quicksand. Didn't bother using Lingering Radiation cause I assumed it wouldn't work either. Will give it a try next time.
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Originally Posted by VoodooCompany
Did not see the same effect as the Commandos went through at least one patch of quicksand (on the first failed run where too many escaped). *shrug*
Have not been a control-support on a run yet, but only reporting what I do see. |
_________
@Inquisitor
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i'm not crazy! |
Originally Posted by mr_morbid
they charged right through my quicksand. Didn't bother using lingering radiation cause i assumed it wouldn't work either. Will give it a try next time.
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i'm not crazy!
I've already forgotten about most of you
I was a bubbler on team 2 last night, and on the successful run I found that the best position for me to be in seemed to be on the path between the 1st and 2nd of the southern spawnpoints (we were assigned to the 2nd and 3rd), as I ended up using Force Bubble to block minions coming from both directions, as well as being able to catch the occasional Commando that liked to sneak around the east side of the SW exit (most of them came around the west side).
And as for the final phase, I definitely think we needed more damage (especially AoE) to handle the reinforcements, especially the 9CUs. Once people start dying, that sets off a cascade reaction where more and more 9CUs are allowed to accumulate until they become completely unmanageable. If that means killing the AVs more slowly in order to devote damage to the adds, it's worth it. Slow and steady etc. Etc.
3-4 people dedicated to handling each set of reinforcements (one group on 9CUs, one group on Victorias), and maybe if the blasters (or anyone with an AoE attack) could divide their attention: ST damage on the AVs, AoE on the reinforcements.
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One of the things I found by snooping around today are that the 9CUs actually GET STRONGER the longer they are out. When we went after Nightstar first after they split, this was probably a huge tactical error on our part as Siege's reinforcements kept piling up AND charging up. Oops. Live and learn. |
Originally Posted by minimalist_NA
And as for the final phase, I definitely think we needed more damage (especially AoE) to handle the reinforcements, especially the 9CUs. Once people start dying, that sets off a cascade reaction where more and more 9CUs are allowed to accumulate until they become completely unmanageable. If that means killing the AVs more slowly in order to devote damage to the adds, it's worth it. Slow and steady etc. Etc.
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It was fun to down a whole lot of purples and see how long my brute could last against them. (Answer: not very.)
Arc# 92382 -- "The S.P.I.D.E.R. and the Tyrant" -- Ninjas! Robots! Praetorians! It's totally epic! Play it now!
Arc # 316340 -- "Husk" -- Azuria loses something, a young woman harbors a dark secret, and the fate of the world is in your hands.
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Depends on your context. And what the secondaries are. Since it sounds like DEDICATED slows may work on the Lts, the sets that have those will come out on top. In some ways, some of the Defender sets almost sound like they may work better for handling the minions than controllers. All a Bubbler, of any kind, needs to do is pop Force Bubble, and just stand in one of the pathways. They could go afk and not a single minion would get past him.|
Originally Posted by Elegost
As far as usefulness, I'd probably rank top controls for this part to be:
Earth > plant > mind > ice > elec > fire/grav |
Hmm... In that mindset, a Stormy might also work well if the theory about dedicated slows is true. Turn Hurricane on while standing in the middle of a pathway, to keep the minions from passing. And drop a Snow Storm on an Lt to slow him and possibly any others that get past.
I find myself curious about the pathing that the escapees use. Are they dedicated to using the pathways? What will happen if they get knocked off it, and onto the grass? Will they try getting back on the path, or will they start running across the grass to their destination? CAN you knock them off the path?
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Originally Posted by minimalist_NA
And as for the final phase, I definitely think we needed more damage (especially AoE) to handle the reinforcements, especially the 9CUs. Once people start dying, that sets off a cascade reaction where more and more 9CUs are allowed to accumulate until they become completely unmanageable. If that means killing the AVs more slowly in order to devote damage to the adds, it's worth it. Slow and steady etc. Etc.
3-4 people dedicated to handling each set of reinforcements (one group on 9CUs, one group on Victorias), and maybe if the blasters (or anyone with an AoE attack) could divide their attention: ST damage on the AVs, AoE on the reinforcements. |
The escapees are 100% dedicated to the paths. Repeatedly they'd end up "sliding" off my Force Bubble onto the grass, only to doggedly head back onto the path and try again, running into the bubble again. Not a single one got by me as long as I didn't get stupid and move too much.
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Originally Posted by minimalist_NA
The escapees are 100% dedicated to the paths. Repeatedly they'd end up "sliding" off my Force Bubble onto the grass, only to doggedly head back onto the path and try again, running into the bubble again. Not a single one got by me as long as I didn't get stupid and move too much.
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This has been a tactic that has been popping up all over the forums. Hey Major/Mental guess what FF are good again!
Ele I think after watching teams on the last 4 BAFs we can identify where *most* of the "leakage" is occuring.
I would say the least likely culprit is the west exit door the area around that door is flat and you can easily see anything making its way to the door (on all runs I've been on I've seen 0 commados make it to that exit).
Of the remaining two exit points, I would say the one that "leaks" the most is the South exit, with a very good reason. There is a point where the refugees split and 1/2 of them go behind the building the exit door. I can't tell you how many times while I was guarding the West exit point I would run down to the door and see a whole stream of refugees coming from behind the building.
The 2nd most likely culprit is the North exit door, because it seems to have the shortest path from the south buildings (most west building) to the North exit, again the trail veers off behind a building which may lead to people missing them.
I think we will be running a few of these tonight with a new strategy:
Team 1 covers West exit and locks down the North Spawn point (north of the tennis courts). This team can be made up of pretty much anything. As I think the West exit is the easiest to defend.
Team 2 covers the south building- but we move them to directly south of the tennis courts. This team will be team "Stacked" if we get two bubblers we can position them on the northeast and northwest corners of the western most building that will effectively lock down the south exit. This team will also need quick spikers to run north and south of the tennis courts spiking any commandos they see.
Team 3 will cover the East exit- now if team two is doing its job, they shouldnt worry too much about the spawns leaving the spawn point (because the south exit will be effectively locked). I want to try to position a bubbler again between the two buildings which will cut the flow by 50% and allow the team to just focus on the stream that goes around the side of the building to the East exit point.
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Hell... it's about time!|
Originally Posted by The_Masque
Hey Major/Mental guess what FF are good again!
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/chomps stogie
Agua Man lvl 48 Water/Electric Blaster
"To die hating NCSoft for shutting down City of Heroes, that was Freedom."
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Have to agree with you there. I think on the one successful one we did where we focused on the escape points and had none actually get out we got lucky - in the sense that a MM camped his pets and managed to mow down anyone who came around the other side of the building. We also had a mobile team covering this exit and the blasters were able to get the prisoners who did try the back door damaged to a point where we could get them before they escaped.|
Originally Posted by The_Masque
This has been a tactic that has been popping up all over the forums. Hey Major/Mental guess what FF are good again!
Ele I think after watching teams on the last 4 BAFs we can identify where *most* of the "leakage" is occuring. Of the remaining two exit points, I would say the one that "leaks" the most is the South exit, with a very good reason. There is a point where the refugees split and 1/2 of them go behind the building the exit door. I can't tell you how many times while I was guarding the West exit point I would run down to the door and see a whole stream of refugees coming from behind the building. |
I really have done the BAFs so far pure PUG. I could not find a way to herd people, many of them new, to the 6 spawn points so I tried the exits. The score is one barely pass and one good pass. So probably not worth trying again.
But now I have seen the pic, and really, if you station at the exits you may see them too late, but you are in the same basic positions as the spawn points. You could divide up to north, south and east spawn sites. I just dunno if you can expect a PUG to take the time to study a pic before heading in.
I like what you laid out and I may have to see how that works out if I end up leading another one of these )(&!@# things.
Looking at the pathing, you can completely block off the minions with only two Force Bubbles. One on the southern path just below the left tennis court. And one on the north path at the corner just before the eastern spawn points. That'd leave the other 22 people to deal with the Lts, at their designated choke points, whether it be the point of origin, destination, or somewhere in between.
I had a blast running the BAF with Ele yesterday (Thanks Ele!). My first run and it was easier than I expected. Went to run it again with mostly the same awesome league, but instead of getting the confirmation to start, I got booted off the team. My chat log said I quit the team, but my hand was nowhere near my mouse at the time.
Does anyone know if holds work on the prisoners? I tried to spam Petrifying Gaze and couldn't hold any of them, not even with the hold proc slotted. Although I wanted to concentrate on my Fire/Dark Corruptor, I'm interested in seeing how Poison trap and mines will work on them. Hopefully I'll get to run two or three of them tonight.
Who do I have to *&^% around here to get more Targeted AoE recipes added?
Arc Name: Tsoo In Love
Arc ID: 413575
There are two prisoner types, minions and LTs. Not sure of the minion names, but the LTs are Commandos. The minions are completely susceptible to all forms of control (slows, holds, mez, immobs, everything and etc) the LTs are not ( except at least Lingering Rad, but waiting on more confirmation regarding slows and various ground-based powers.)
Minions should never, ever be of any concern if the control powers are maintained at the spawn points.
I've already forgotten about most of you
It was the Lts I tried holding, the minions didn't make it far before they were cut down. All of them however seemed to run trough Tar Patch like it was a puddle of water.
Who do I have to *&^% around here to get more Targeted AoE recipes added?
Arc Name: Tsoo In Love
Arc ID: 413575
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Originally Posted by EnigmaBlack
It was the Lts I tried holding, the minions didn't make it far before they were cut down. All of them however seemed to run trough Tar Patch like it was a puddle of water.
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Originally Posted by VoodooCompany
i'm not crazy!
i'm not crazy! |
I've already forgotten about most of you
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Yeah, I was between c2 and b1 and that seemed ideal, plus I was able to pick off commandos that were trying to sneak between those buildings. This seems like a fine plan to me, and I'm looking forward to more successes when I get the chance to play again. Whenever that might be.
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Originally Posted by Prince_Tycho
Looking at the pathing, you can completely block off the minions with only two Force Bubbles. One on the southern path just below the left tennis court. And one on the north path at the corner just before the eastern spawn points. That'd leave the other 22 people to deal with the Lts, at their designated choke points, whether it be the point of origin, destination, or somewhere in between.
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On the two BAFs I ran last night, the first was a failure because people either:|
Originally Posted by minimalist_NA
Yeah, I was between c2 and b1 and that seemed ideal, plus I was able to pick off commandos that were trying to sneak between those buildings. This seems like a fine plan to me, and I'm looking forward to more successes when I get the chance to play again. Whenever that might be.
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a) Refused to open the map OR
b) Refused to acknowledge that their team number might have changed and went to the wrong location
Once we got everyone set properly, I was on my first successful BAF and got the Very Rare loot table, which will be nice if I can ever get my Judgement slot open.
Arc# 92382 -- "The S.P.I.D.E.R. and the Tyrant" -- Ninjas! Robots! Praetorians! It's totally epic! Play it now!
Arc # 316340 -- "Husk" -- Azuria loses something, a young woman harbors a dark secret, and the fate of the world is in your hands.
Hmm.. So it looks like ground based AoE slows that don't directly target them may not work, but target specific ones might....
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I was on the path by the corner just before the path opened up to A1 doing the same thing.|
Originally Posted by minimalist_NA
Yeah, I was between c2 and b1 and that seemed ideal, plus I was able to pick off commandos that were trying to sneak between those buildings. This seems like a fine plan to me, and I'm looking forward to more successes when I get the chance to play again. Whenever that might be.
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I'm definitely curious now about the AoE slows vs Targeted slows against the LTs. If things like Snow Storm or Syphon Speed work on them. Hmm... Lingering Radiation is a toggle, right? I wonder if they CAN be affected by controls but they just have something special where they shake the effect almost immediately. But since it's a Toggle, is continuously affecting them, it leaves them slowed because they're continuously shaking then reapplying the affect. I kind of want to get my Stormy and my Kin in there now to test it out. Unfortunately, neither of them have their level shift yet.
LR isn't a toggle.
I'm thinking it has to do with pulse versus static ground-based powers. EQ works (confirmation on that needed, I'm pretty sure I saw the LTs popped up and down a couple of times), and it pulses.
Quicksand and Tar patch are static? Confirmation on trip mine working or not is needed, and I *think* it's a static effect triggered by proximity. Poison trap is static, and curious if it would have any effect if it can be triggered (more for the -regen for the hell of it?). The electrical control patch is a pulse and a rapid sleep dot, so curious if that would have an effect.
I'd imagine all of this would have been hashed out in beta, but I'm too lazy to search.
I've already forgotten about most of you
Trip Mine can be a little wonky at times. I've had numerous occasions where something ran over the Mine and ran by it before it triggered. By the time it set off they were out of the effect radius. I've actually gotten into the habit of tossing caltrops down around the minefield to prevent this from happening. But if caltrops aren't working on these things, that could be an issue.
Arc# 92382 -- "The S.P.I.D.E.R. and the Tyrant" -- Ninjas! Robots! Praetorians! It's totally epic! Play it now!
Arc # 316340 -- "Husk" -- Azuria loses something, a young woman harbors a dark secret, and the fate of the world is in your hands.
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Originally Posted by VoodooCompany
LR isn't a toggle.
I'm thinking it has to do with pulse versus static ground-based powers. EQ works (confirmation on that needed, I'm pretty sure I saw the LTs popped up and down a couple of times), and it pulses. Quicksand and Tar patch are static? Confirmation on trip mine working or not is needed, and I *think* it's a static effect triggered by proximity. Poison trap is static, and curious if it would have any effect if it can be triggered (more for the -regen for the hell of it?). The electrical control patch is a pulse and a rapid sleep dot, so curious if that would have an effect. I'd imagine all of this would have been hashed out in beta, but I'm too lazy to search. |
I can get 17 mines and 6 poison traps out at once, I'll put them directly on the path in a huge cluster so we'll see next run...
Who do I have to *&^% around here to get more Targeted AoE recipes added?
Arc Name: Tsoo In Love
Arc ID: 413575
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You are a charlatan and a damned liar!|
Originally Posted by EnigmaBlack
I can get 17 mines and 6 poison traps out at once, I'll put them directly on the path in a huge cluster so we'll see next run...
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(reading stuff intentionally different from how it was meant makes me smile.....making people unintentionally read things differently from how it was meant gives me chills)
I've already forgotten about most of you
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Siphon speed is actually an unresistable slow, so it will even work on the hardened commandos. I am not sure if there are any other unresistable slows or controls out there, but if so, those would also function as we'd like |
Originally Posted by Prince_Tycho
I was on the path by the corner just before the path opened up to A1 doing the same thing.
I'm definitely curious now about the AoE slows vs Targeted slows against the LTs. If things like Snow Storm or Syphon Speed work on them. Hmm... Lingering Radiation is a toggle, right? I wonder if they CAN be affected by controls but they just have something special where they shake the effect almost immediately. But since it's a Toggle, is continuously affecting them, it leaves them slowed because they're continuously shaking then reapplying the affect. I kind of want to get my Stormy and my Kin in there now to test it out. Unfortunately, neither of them have their level shift yet. |
I know it is really nice to be able to at least slow one of those guys to a crawl every now and then to give people more time to gun them down. Go Kins!
I had the same experience with lingering radiation, it definitely worked, especially after we had 2 of us applying it on the same groups.
Stupid part: We had a traps throwing trip mines all over the roads. None of them went off as far as I could see. The radius on those damn things needs to be bigger or something. They freakin suck, but that's a perfect time for them to be useful.
TK seemed to work well as long as you're pushing them backwards and not in the direction they want to run (which we had a dom do...)
As far as usefulness, I'd probably rank top controls for this part to be:
Earth > plant > mind > ice > elec > fire/grav
Not sure where ill would fit in, though...
I really wish the popup text or the map or something would let us know where the mobs are leaking from so we can modify the layout more as needed. When it's just "someone got away somewhere!" it's not very helpful.. And the lack of communication across these PuG teams makes it nearly impossible for anyone to actually figure out where the problem is, if there's a problem.
^Professional Katana/regen build thread