Set me straight, please.
Can someone clarify something for me? Threads CAN be used to make Alpha slot components? Is this worth doing, or is the exchange rate so bad that you should stick to shards? If my char only has a common Alpha, is it worth it to upgrade that with threads from the new tfs or use the threads solely for the other incarnate slots?
If we'd had two more acids or two more pac grenades, we'd have got him.
Until I see something that states to the contrary, going to assume VK is right .
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So I need to fail this TF ten times before I even unlock the slot that might, once it's slotted, give me enough power to succeed at the same content??
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The trials are hard but a lot of it is really just a matter of practice. There is a flow to the trials and as people learn it they will become easier.
Can someone clarify something for me? Threads CAN be used to make Alpha slot components? Is this worth doing, or is the exchange rate so bad that you should stick to shards? If my char only has a common Alpha, is it worth it to upgrade that with threads from the new tfs or use the threads solely for the other incarnate slots?
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I'll be interested to see if the Anti-Matter Trial and the Hamdion Trial are going to be deigned with the idea that most people running them will have some of the new slots - or if they're going to be designed as another way of getting the 4 new slots.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
I lead 3 successful Lamdba's and 1 failed BAF (prisoner phase), but everyone stayed and we went on to complete it pretty easily. These were done mostly with people who have never ran the trials before, with some people staying with me.
From running those trials, spending around 65 mil inf and converting threads and xp, I was able to unlock and equip the tier 1 Judgement and Interface slots.
[U][URL="http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=251594"][/URL][/U]
Threads can be used to make Alpha boosts but it's probably not worth doing. All Incarnate slots (both the Alpha Slot and the new ones) have the same costs in terms of threads to get abilities. However the Alpha slot is much cheaper than the others to buy with shards, plus the Notice of the Well is much easier to get than the new rare components. Therefore you're probably best off using the threads to work on the new slots and using shards and the WST to build up your alpha boost.
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So from what I am reading, it sounds as though the post-Alpha slots will be a whole lot easier to build up than the Alpha slot itself, which uses shards (assuming they did not increase the drop rate, still tedious to get) and tfotw *successes*. Whereas new slots can be geared up even with repeated iTrial *failures*.
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Like if you fail the ITF, you still get Shards along the way, you just miss out on the reward bonus at the end - if you fail Lambda or the BAF, you still get Threads along the way, but you miss out on the reward bonus ta the end.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
No, they're the same - you get Incarnate Threads for the Trials, and Incarnate Shards for the non-Trial 50 content.
Like if you fail the ITF, you still get Shards along the way, you just miss out on the reward bonus at the end - if you fail Lambda or the BAF, you still get Threads along the way, but you miss out on the reward bonus ta the end. |
Also I got the impression that the Thread drop rate was higher than the Shard drop rate, although components do take more Threads to craft. Still, with the ease of getting into the new iTrials it still sounds to me like casuals will have Very Rare post-Alpha slots a lot sooner than they would Very Rare Alphas.
So from what I am reading, it sounds as though the post-Alpha slots will be a whole lot easier to build up than the Alpha slot itself, which uses shards (assuming they did not increase the drop rate, still tedious to get) and tfotw *successes*. Whereas new slots can be geared up even with repeated iTrial *failures*.
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But I got the impression that new-style components also drop *during* the iTrials, or is that not the case? i.e. no components if you do not complete?
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You only get components from a completed trial. However during the trial you will get threads and Astral Merits (which can be exchanged for threads). You will also get Incarnate XP (which unlocks the new slots). It is possible to build up common and uncommon components using threads alone. Rare and Very Rare components are available through threads alone but it takes a LOT of threads.
Now the other good side of this is that the thread and incarnate XP rewards are front loaded in the trials. The early stages of the trials involve killing large numbers of basic enemies and are where you will get a large chunk of your Incarnate XP and thread drops for the entire trial. The later stages mostly focus on killing a few tough enemies and consequently don't give as much in terms of thread drops and incarnate XP.
A successful BAF Trial will award:
5 Threads (on average, you could easily get more of less depending on luck)
3 Astral Merits (worth 4 threads each)
1 Empyrean Merit (8 E Merits = a rare component, 30 E Merits = a Very Rare component)
1 Component (rarity is dependent on luck)
In a failed trial you will generally get a similar number of threads and 1-3 Astral merits (depending on how far you get before you fail). So a failed trial will get you about 10-15 threads (or about 50%-75% of a common component) while a successful trial will give you the high end of the thread range a guaranteed component and an E Merit to put towards the higher tier components.
Admittedly it has been awhile since I last played, but that certainly sounds a whole lot easier than the effort required to get an equivalent Very Rare Alpha ability.
Yes... and no.
You only get components from a completed trial. However during the trial you will get threads and Astral Merits (which can be exchanged for threads). You will also get Incarnate XP (which unlocks the new slots). It is possible to build up common and uncommon components using threads alone. Rare and Very Rare components are available through threads alone but it takes a LOT of threads. |
"I wish my life was a non-stop Hollywood movie show,
A fantasy world of celluloid villains and heroes."
All these people mentioning 'I got mine unlocked in one run' don't seem to be mentioning;
1) It's not possible to get that much IXP in one run
2) You have to pay in Inf to convert threads into IXP
Thats not 'one run'. Thats 'One run and added cost'.
Just so people aren't mislead from reading that.
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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@Yosomono:
The drop rate for threads/new components for new Incarnate powers within the new trials does seem to be faster than the drop rate for shards was in level 50 TFs when Alpha was introduced. In that regard, yes you're right.
I did emphasize some qualifying items in that sentence because there are a few gameplay differences to bear in mind, depending on your style of play.
At this moment, threads only drop during the new trials, of which there are two. You need to run these repeatedly to open access to the new Incarnate slots. Having run enough to open your new slot, you will probably have accumulated enough threads/components to slot a tier 1 or probably a tier 2.
When I19 was released, you needed to do one arc, once to open your alpha slot. There were 4 already existing level 50 TF's which dropped shards. Additionally, any other level 50 content could drop shards (even soloing radio missions) and there were two new level 50 TF's added (recommended that you have at least your tier 1 alpha slotted).
With I20, shards could potentially drop any time you play your 50 (assuming your alpha slot has been unlocked). Even exemping down to run level 2 missions with your friend's new alt, to say nothing of all of the existing TF's or running Oroborus missions.
With this in mind, I would strongly recommend only using threads on the new Incarnate slots, as shards can appear anywhere. Use shards to build up your alpha, and when you're done with your Very Rare alpha, convert any extra shards to threads.
I'm not a fan of running the same content repeatedly on the same alt (though I have no problem running the same content on a different alt). Having said that, I do quite enjoy the BAF (haven't tried Lambda yet) so I'm not going to complain about the new content. I just think it's going to be a long, long stretch accumulating all the threads I will need despite the higher drop rate in the trials, given that they can only drop in the trials.
Here's hoping for more Incarnate content soon that will also drop threads.
No! No, it's really, really not. This is not what good end game design looks like. I could think up a half dozen better end game systems for CoH without even cracking one of my books on game theory.
All I'm left with is the hope that this is an unfinished system, in the same way that ED was unfinished until the IO system came along. I have to believe our devs will eventually put into place mechanics that will discourage griefers, allow solo play, and encourage good play instead of mindless zerging. I...I just have to. |
I personally don't see the appeal of end game because you can roll a low level alt if you want to start at the bottom again to build your way up.
Remember when the ITF was introduced?
Some players screamed it was too hard. Many complained about how it took two to three hours and then they couldn't complete it in the end because there was no way to overcome the heals of the healing Nictus? Yeah... whatever happened to that? |
That's old hat now.
This is the NEW too hard/badly designed/impossible to beat thing that everyone is going to rage against.
Just like Apex and Tin Mage were the too hard/badly designed/impossible to beat thing from LAST issue.
Keep up with the times man! You can't go bringing up things from the past that seem absurd now just to point out how everyone is jumping to conclusions, because they are RIGHT, dammit! And they will throw every argument in the book at you to prove it, whether that argument makes any sense or not.
It's going to be highly amusing 6 months to a year from now when I dig up some of these threads to point out how hard everyone thought these things were. And everyone's going to tell me how easy the trials are and how hard the NEW thing is compared to it.
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
All these people mentioning 'I got mine unlocked in one run' don't seem to be mentioning;
1) It's not possible to get that much IXP in one run 2) You have to pay in Inf to convert threads into IXP Thats not 'one run'. Thats 'One run and added cost'. Just so people aren't mislead from reading that. |
Good point to bring up that influences costs are often overlooked.
Okay, all this is pretty bewildering, but let me see if I have it straight.
To unlock and slot *one* of the new incarnate abilities, a player can either:
A. Fail at one trial about 10 times.
B. Succeed at one trial about 3 times, plus spend about 65 mil inf.
Since most of my playtime in this game is with PUGs, and many of my level 50s do not have 65 mil inf, it's almost certain that A is my only option.
Compare that with the alpha slot, which was unlocked in a mission arc that could usually be run solo and that could be slotted in 1 or 2 runs of any of a half dozen TFs.
Meanwhile, players are being encouraged to use sloppy tactics and griefers are having a field day.
Seriously, did the same devs create both these systems? Did anyone check for automatons?
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New Webcomic -- Genocide Man
Life is funny. Death is funnier. Mass slaughter can be hilarious.
All end games have a bait and switch where the leveling experience and entry to end game (eg Alpha slot) vastly differs from the rest of end game. CoX has officially opened the flood gates of such design that the market leader uses. Now, if this is good or bad for the future of the game I don't know, but we will be watching quarterly earnings very closely IMVHO.
See while I don't think these are hard but then I came from a WoW raiding background where dancing about and coordination were pretty much required.
If you want to look at something, I suggest going to check out TotalHalibut's channel on Youtube, he regularly has videos which are labelled 'wipe-a-thon 3000' where it is him and his guild mates going at a boss over and over and over purely to learn the mechanics of the fight, what to do when and where to stand.
The BAF and Lambada are tough but they simply require communication and Coordination. my personal record is now 2 complete Lambada runs with no failures, 3 failed BAF runs and 8 successful ones.
The latest failure we located a weakpoint in our strategy and fixed it, leading to a smooth complete the next time around.
However speaking of this they are being run by mostly one person (Damz, I cannot praise him enough) and everybody shuts up and listens to him when he gives orders (not that he barks them, it's more 'ok, slow down on seige now' kind of deal).
This is the NEW too hard/badly designed/impossible to beat thing that everyone is going to rage against.
Just like Apex and Tin Mage were the too hard/badly designed/impossible to beat thing from LAST issue. Keep up with the times man! You can't go bringing up things from the past that seem absurd now just to point out how everyone is jumping to conclusions, because they are RIGHT, dammit! And they will throw every argument in the book at you to prove it, whether that argument makes any sense or not. It's going to be highly amusing 6 months to a year from now when I dig up some of these threads to point out how hard everyone thought these things were. And everyone's going to tell me how easy the trials are and how hard the NEW thing is compared to it. |
We are being forced to grind this new content -- only this new content -- upwards of 10 times per incarnate slot. It's an order of magnitude more effort for about the same reward. (I could argue it's less reward, as the slots don't seem that great. Only Judgement looks as though it'll affect gameplay at all.)
Bring on the hard content. But don't force us to do it ad nauseum.
...
New Webcomic -- Genocide Man
Life is funny. Death is funnier. Mass slaughter can be hilarious.
We are being forced to grind this new content -- only this new content -- upwards of 10 times per incarnate slot. It's an order of magnitude more effort for about the same reward. (I could argue it's less reward, as the slots don't seem that great. Only Judgement looks as though it'll affect gameplay at all.)
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Lesson from the Beta boards: if you have a problem with the grind, you don't actually have a problem with the grind. You're just whining because it's too hard or because you don't get to have all your slots filled with Very Rares in the first day of playing. You might think you think the issue lies somewhere else, but it doesn't.
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All I'm left with is the hope that this is an unfinished system, in the same way that ED was unfinished until the IO system came along. I have to believe our devs will eventually put into place mechanics that will discourage griefers, allow solo play, and encourage good play instead of mindless zerging. I...I just have to.
...
New Webcomic -- Genocide Man
Life is funny. Death is funnier. Mass slaughter can be hilarious.