Sooooo, I wanna kill an Av or Gm...
By
Arcanaville,
Posted on: 2011-03-21 17:52 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
The fire/dark corr has a good chance, the troller can maybe do it, but that's doubtful.
I'd say go with bots/traps. It can probably solo GMs on SOs alone. I know mine has handled Deathsurge, Scrapyard, and Kraken all this week. I'm not on SOs, mind you, but they were really easy.
EDIT: The key to soloing large targets like that is -regen and -resist. Cold Domination and Dark Miasma can give you that (the dark rez, in particular, for regen). I'm just skeptical that the earth controller would have enough damage.
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don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
Your Corr could possibly do it.
Good builds for are anything that debuffs regen, or puts out more damage than the av can recover while being able to survive/divert incoming damage.
Classic combinations are I'll/rad trollers, fire or sonic/rad corrs, rad/sonic defenders, bots/traps mm's. Fire/sd scrappers/brutes, dm/sd scrappers/brutes, etc. Really though, if built right, these days just about anything can solo av's. GM's will be a little tougher but I do know that bots/traps can take on just about anything.
Best of luck to you. I always respect the folks that do this because I just don't have the patience for it.
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doubtful any of those will be able to manage... |
Originally Posted by Brakkus
Greetings all!!
I have a question, I have been playing this game for several years now and have never killed an AV or GM solo... I have a Stone/WP brute, a Fire/Dark corr, a Dark/Fire scrap, a Stone/Ice troll, and a Ice/Fire tank all at 50, can any of these defeat one if built properly? If not, what AT can do it with the least amount of money spent and/or the greatest ease? Money isn't too much of an issue I guess, I just don't want to invest in a character to have him/her not do it. I have read in the individual forums and seen that this corr can or that troll can, but which is the best overall (if there is such a one). I would like my next build to be an AV/GM slayer. ANY and ALL advice will be greatly appreciated!!!! Brakkus |
to solo either you need -regen more then anything... so Cold Dom or Rad will probably be required.
Ill/rad is a GM/AV killer. there are others that can manage it... i'm sure you'll get some ideas... like i have heard that a mm with /poison can do a good job as well.
It is one of the few things i have not done on this game yet, i would like to have one of my characters be able to do it. I didn't have the patience before either methinks.
Soooo, Bots/traps, I have stayed away from MM's for a while, maybe time to try and run one.
Sonic/Rad corrs? that sounds interesting, might have to try that also.
Ill/rad troller, I honestly don't think I have ever rolled an Ill troll before, another possible idea...
Thanks for the quick responses all!
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Patience is not a requisite for bots/traps. I think all three of my fights were less than ten minutes.
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Originally Posted by Brakkus
It is one of the few things i have not done on this game yet, i would like to have one of my characters be able to do it. I didn't have the patience before either methinks.
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Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
If you wanna go with a Corr, I suggest a Fire/Rad or Fire/Traps.
[U][URL="http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=251594"][/URL][/U]
Claws/sr brute can do it an your dm scrapper should have the dps to do it if u can keep him alive, i dont know how much recharge u have tho
/Poison does do well. With Demons I have done it. Poison does shred things quite a bit.
Alas, the only issue with poison is that you have to play it still, after you get bored of soloing AV's and GM's. 
Of note, AVs are less build-specific than GMs are - they have significantly less regeneration, so builds without -regen can still solo AVs if they have enough raw DPS. My Arch/EM blaster has soloed AVs before - without inspirations, even - it just took at least 15 minutes to do so, since I was just barely beating that regen (they had lethal resistance). However, that blaster would never dream of soloing a GM, unless he busted out every temp power in the book and a full tray of gigantic insps with more in email storage - they really do need -regen to make it practical.
If you want to stick with your current roster, any of the first three chars listed could possibly pack enough damage to solo an AV - the main issue will be making sure they don't solo you first. If you want to make a new big game hunter, then Ill/Rad controllers, Bots/Traps MMs, and Rad/Sonic defenders are all pretty solid contenders depending on how you want to approach it. The MM is likely the least expensive approach, in that they don't need as much investment in their own safety to have a shot.
One last note - one AV can vary RADICALLY from the next in terms of threat level. Choose your practice targets carefully =)
Rule number six of an empathy defender is NEVER underestimate a blaster's ability to die. I don't care if he has CM, Fort, both RAs, bubbles (both FF and Sonic), and is fighting next to a Storm defender with hurricane on. If there is a way to die in that situation, the blaster will find it.
I would suspect any of those combos (except perhaps the controller, I don't know them too well) would be able to solo an AV. AVs have ~95 HP/sec regen or so; the main thing is doing enough damage and staying alive.
The Ice/Fire tank would probably be the cheapest for it, since it can soft-cap defenses fairly easily and it should do enough damage to whittle down the AV.
The Fire/Dark corruptor would have the easiest fight, assuming you can get enough defenses to be survivable, since Fire is plenty damaging and Dark has some -Regen and -Res.
my invuln/ss can stand toe to toe with an av, cant kill him but he cant kill me either, or at least they couldnt way back when havent played in a while but i used to stand toe to toe with archvillians and it was like both of us was hitting a brick wall. my rad/dark defender i think could do really well i havent really tried though, but he makes av killling easy on a team. now youve given me something else i want to try.
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If you mean no insp/temps, all you need to solo an AV/GM/Pylon are: ability to survive, usually through high defense for squishies; enough DPS (a 100 or so?); and enough recovery to maintain your attack chain. Some sort of heal is likely necessary too if your regen isn't high enough.|
Originally Posted by Brakkus
I have a Stone/WP brute, a Fire/Dark corr, a Dark/Fire scrap, a Stone/Ice troll, and a Ice/Fire tank all at 50, can any of these defeat one if built properly?
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Stone/WP brute: Absolutely. Stone has good ST damage, and WP should be able to stand against AVs and give you enough recovery.
Fire/Dark corr: Yup. Fire has plenty of damage and Dark as good debuffs. Get your range damage to softcap (or around 38% since you can debuff to hit, tho the AV will resist it), you have a self heal, slot for end redux & +recovery.
Dark/Fire scrap: Good lord, yes. Again, just make sure you have enough end to pull off your attack chain indefinitely. DM is practically made for AV soloing w/its strong ST chain and self heal. FE & Burn will just speed the process, though you may want to IO up your defenses. Psi AVs will chew you up though.
Earth/Cold troller, is what I assume you meant? Earth has poor damage, but w/an epic blast, and Cold's excellent debuffs, again, this shouldn't be hard. Lack of a self heal may do you in though unless you resort to insps or Med pool. Again, get your def to softcap. HL will cover your end.
Ice/Fire tank: Fire Melee has plenty of damage. Ice Armor has a few holes so this may limit which AVs to solo, but you'll be able to take a few of them on, though it'll take some time. Tanker damage isn't all that great, even for FM.
W/I20, every build will be able to solo AVs w/Interface debuffs.
An Offensive Guide to Ice Melee
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To kill a GM, you need at least 300 DPS I think it is.
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Originally Posted by dave_p
If you mean no insp/temps, all you need to solo an AV/GM/Pylon are: ability to survive, usually through high defense for squishies; enough DPS (a 100 or so?); and enough recovery to maintain your attack chain. Some sort of heal is likely necessary too if your regen isn't high enough.
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[U][URL="http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=251594"][/URL][/U]
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Last I heard, GM regen was slightly over 300 HP/sec, with a safe figure of 350 required DPS to be able to kill the GM.|
Originally Posted by Fiery-Enforcer
To kill a GM, you need at least 300 DPS I think it is.
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Fair warning: I have no evidence to support this.
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
I've known for a while that several of my characters probably could solo AVs, but I hadn't done it until I accidentally ran into an AV while running a Striga arc... forgetting the guy's name now, that sonic guy. I was soloing on my scrapper Tiffany, and he showed up as an AV due to my settings I guess. So I thought, "Well, I can do this in theory and actually it wasn't too difficult.
I still want to solo a few of the legacy TFs. Not because I think it'll be lots of fun... just because. ^_^
my lil RWZ Challenge vid
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Hmm... I was killing GMs w/my Fire/Rad doing around 258 "effective" DPS, but that figure was calculated using pylons and includes debuffs & -regen. That prolly gets screwed up w/GMs, also depending on the native level of the GM.|
Originally Posted by Fiery-Enforcer
To kill a GM, you need at least 300 DPS I think it is.
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But yeah, that 100 DPS figure was meant for AVs. Sorry for the confusion.
An Offensive Guide to Ice Melee
A Monster Class critter has 70679 health at level 50. Their regeneration rate is 0.3, which means they regenerate 30% of their health every minute. That should mean they regenerate 353 health per second.
That's a level 50 monster. Not all Giant Monsters are intrinsicly level 50. Jurassik is, I believe, level 39. So he would have 57140 health and regenerate at 286 health per second. I think Eochai spawns at level 34, which would mean 50224 health and 251 health per second.
The lowest GM I can think of is the Paladin: I easily soloed him on my Ill/Rad once. I don't remember his intrinsic level though. If he is level appropriate to Kings Row, though, he could be level 15, which on a giant monster is 19606 health and 98 health per second regen - comparable to a level 50 arch villain actually.
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The monsters in PI are 48-50, near as I can recall from back when you could see their levels by viewing their info. They also don't use level scaling, so combat modifiers are in full effect fighting them.
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I believe th PI ones are "monsters," and not "giant monsters." I think that changes things quite a bit.
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Originally Posted by Wonderslug
The monsters in PI are 48-50, near as I can recall from back when you could see their levels by viewing their info. They also don't use level scaling, so combat modifiers are in full effect fighting them.
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The Devouring Earth monsters are a weird neither-fish-nor-fowl corner case, really. They have GM HP and mez resistance, but come in distinct (but hidden) levels and don't scale.
The "monster" vs "giant monster" distinction is pretty silly at this point and mostly just causes needless confusion, since actual non-giant monsters are a) pretty much found only in musty old I0-I1 content, b) usually archvillains in all but name, but sometimes not, and c) indistinguishable at a glance from giant monsters. The worst case is probably critters like Jurrasik, Adamastor, and the Kronos Titan, which have giant monster and archvillain-we're-calling-a-monster versions.
Because transparency is for chumps, apparently.
(Don't even get me started on the ridiculous and lamentable decision to use a custom "Hero" rank to mean anything from "archvillain-class good guy" to "ordinary boss that downgrades to lieutenant." Or the tendency to label signature characters "Hero" or "Archvillain" even when they are boss- or, worse, pet-rank critters.)
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Originally Posted by Wonderslug
The Devouring Earth monsters are a weird neither-fish-nor-fowl corner case, really. They have GM HP and mez resistance, but come in distinct (but hidden) levels and don't scale.
The "monster" vs "giant monster" distinction is pretty silly at this point and mostly just causes needless confusion, since actual non-giant monsters are a) pretty much found only in musty old I0-I1 content, b) usually archvillains in all but name, but sometimes not, and c) indistinguishable at a glance from giant monsters. The worst case is probably critters like Jurrasik, Adamastor, and the Kronos Titan, which have giant monster and archvillain-we're-calling-a-monster versions. Because transparency is for chumps, apparently. (Don't even get me started on the ridiculous and lamentable decision to use a custom "Hero" rank to mean anything from "archvillain-class good guy" to "ordinary boss that downgrades to lieutenant." Or the tendency to label signature characters "Hero" or "Archvillain" even when they are boss- or, worse, pet-rank critters.) |
Monster class critters are a special class of critter, like "Boss" or "Archvillain." All Giant Monsters are monster class critters. All come with intrinsic levels, just like all other critters.
"Giant Monsters" are monster class critters that have been tagged to bypass the level scaler. That means in essence the purple patch ignores their level: they always act as if ther is no combat modifier difference between them and the players. That is all that "Giant Monster" means in this game. Because monster class critters were often used for zone events, the devs decided they should be as inclusive as possible, which meant eliminating the level scaler and the purple patch, which would make them too easy for players that were of higher level and too hard to contribute towards for players that were of lower level. The zone event critters all use the same "giant monster" code to make neutralize combat modifier differences, and for the exact same reason.
Historically we have a term for "monster that ignores combat modifiers." We don't have one for "Elite Boss that ignores combat modifiers" even though technically speaking things like the Rikti heavy come in two varieties: the standard EB in missions and the RWZ, and the invasion version that is exactly the same except for using the "giant monster" code. We just don't call them "giant EBs."
Still it pays to be specific, because if you go to monster island at level 42 thinking you're going to be facing giant monsters, you'll discover you are mistaken in a big hurry.
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Unfortunately the distinction really isn't clear in game because sometimes the rank given in target window straight-up lies.
There are many examples of things called "monster" that are not actually monster-class critters, flagged to ignore combat modifiers or not. The Jurassik in the Numina task force isn't the same critter that spawns in Crey's Folly. The Crystal Titan in the Eden trial is notably squishier than the Quarries you fight earlier in the same trial, because it has far less HP than they do. The Kronos Titan you fight at the end of World Wide Red most definitely is not the same critter that ambushes you in Founder's Falls. Last I checked Portal Corp Adamastor and Psychic Babbage were bog standard archvillains masquerading as "monsters"--they even degrade to elite bosses.
Some of that content, I admit, I haven't run in a long time, so I can't swear some of them haven't been relabeled, but Paragon Wiki at least still lists all of them as having a rank of "monster." The end result is that "Monster" is as meaningless a label as "Hero" because it has no consistent meaning; it's flavor text that only sometimes conveys actual game-mechanical information.
Greetings all!!
I have a question, I have been playing this game for several years now and have never killed an AV or GM solo...
I have a Stone/WP brute, a Fire/Dark corr, a Dark/Fire scrap, a Stone/Ice troll, and a Ice/Fire tank all at 50, can any of these defeat one if built properly? If not, what AT can do it with the least amount of money spent and/or the greatest ease? Money isn't too much of an issue I guess, I just don't want to invest in a character to have him/her not do it. I have read in the individual forums and seen that this corr can or that troll can, but which is the best overall (if there is such a one).
I would like my next build to be an AV/GM slayer.
ANY and ALL advice will be greatly appreciated!!!!
Brakkus