Why is Base Construction the only unimproved aspect of CoH/CoV?
By
all_hell,
Posted on: 2011-03-21 02:15 in Base Construction
Yes, super groups themselves are far reaching. Looking at the title of this thread though, Base Construction isn't far reaching.
I've asked and have been told most players use bases for the following:
- Transport. This has been on the decline with all the travel options opening up (Ouro, Pocket D, Transit merge, expansion of the Black Helicopter line).
- Storage.
- Rezzing. (Given the hospitals in nearly every zone now, it is kind of moot at this point).
- Empowerment buffs.
- Roleplaying and decoration.
- PVP. (Well, used to be PVP.)
I'm completely willing to entertain what more bases can currently do though.
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
Updated Items of Power, as craftable base items with substantial buffs...
That would put alot of people back in SG mode.
Ignoring anyone is a mistake. You might miss something viral to your cause.
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True, And if they added new SG Badges to unlock these, it would bring back SG Members working together for the common cause of improving the SG/Base.
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Originally Posted by MrHassenpheffer
Updated Items of Power, as craftable base items with substantial buffs...
That would put alot of people back in SG mode. |
Black-Strike: lvl 50 AR/Dark Corruptor
Brutally Beautiful: lvl 50 BA/Inv Brute
Seared Earth: lvl 50 EC/EA Dominator
Yashi Onuku: lvl 50 Ninja Blade/Ninjitsu Stalker
Death-Widow: lvl 50 Night Widow
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And this is where I feel you continue to miss the point. Base Construction does impact a large amount of the Player Base. You can come at how to make Bases more fun/useful from a lot of angles and each angle you work from still impacts the entire Super Group. Even if they never let more than one person actually edit the Base, improvements to the Base effect everyone in the SG. |
Originally Posted by Snow Globe
Yes, super groups themselves are far reaching. Looking at the title of this thread though, Base Construction isn't far reaching.
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If those of us who wish Bases to be improved continue to miss the significance of Bases and the impact Bases could have in the game how do you expect anyone else to?
"SARS, Bird Flue, 9/11, Anthrax in the Mail, Mad Cow Disease. Pope John Paul didn't die, he preboarded." - Christopher Titus "5th Annual End of the World Tour"
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Counterproposal.|
Originally Posted by MrHassenpheffer
Updated Items of Power, as craftable base items with substantial buffs...
That would put alot of people back in SG mode. |
You know those Empowerment Stations?
You know how the buffs they craft only affect YOU for 1 hour?
Make it possible to craft TEMPORARY "Items of Power" which buff your entire SG for 2 hours using Common+Uncommon Invention Salvage. Rig the system so that you actually need to use the Vault Room(s) and the IOP Base item to "hold" these Temp SG Buffs for their duration ... effectively putting an upper limit on how many an SG can sustain simultaneously, both from a Space Pressure angle and from a Salvage Consumption angle.
If nothing else, it would give us a "sink" for draining Uncommon Salvage out of the market.
It's the end. But the moment has been prepared for ...
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Okay, I guess I was a bit unclear. What do you think would make bases more useful? You say bases impact people outside the builders themselves. Care to elaborate? Care to come up with ways we, as base builders, can impact the other players? |
Originally Posted by Roughtrade
And this is where I feel you continue to miss the point. Base Construction does impact a large amount of the Player Base. You can come at how to make Bases more fun/useful from a lot of angles and each angle you work from still impacts the entire Super Group. Even if they never let more than one person actually edit the Base, improvements to the Base effect everyone in the SG.
If those of us who wish Bases to be improved continue to miss the significance of Bases and the impact Bases could have in the game how do you expect anyone else to? |
Keep in mind that most of the things to make bases more useful already exist in the game outside of bases. The sad thing is that the things outside of bases are generally more useful. From what I can see:
Transportation: Bases used to be the best way to get around. That isn't always the case anymore.
Medical services and Inspiration: With a hospital and inspiration vendor in nearly every zone, and the base rez rings not fully healing players, that isn't the case.
Storage: Bases can actually store more than a character, up to 18 storage devices. Forget recipes, though that is equal to outside of bases.
Empowerment buffs: I think I've used them twice in the last year, and not to actually get past content.
Roleplaying: This would likely have the most impact on the group at large if the group participates in it.
PVP: Well Issue 13 killed Base Raids.
From talking to other players, those are the things the other players care about. Everything else that gets ignored by 90% of the players, unless roleplaying is involved. So can you explain how are we impacting players outside of those categories?
One of my goals in this thread is to find out how to make bases more attractive to players. The last 5.5 years has seen a decline in base use as aspects outside of bases have been improved. You say bases have impact beyond builders. I'm asking "What impact are you seeing?"
Things that have been suggested to be added: A Market Interface, a Tailor Interface, and an AE Interface. Each of these would get use, but again, each deals with a niche group.
Now super groups themselves could use improvements, and the lists we have cover those as well. However that is another thread than this one.
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
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I've been away from this thread for a while so I apologize for the delayed response to this - however I never said only a few people would benefit, I said only a (relatively) few people would use the feature. |
Originally Posted by Roughtrade
My point is we need to quit saying 'only a few people benefit' because then we are advertising a false premise. Every time someone who supports bases says "I know it will only benefit a few of us" they are reinforcing the idea that this is a niche community.
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Again, you are not going to convince the people who control the development schedule that they should pour resources into something that only a handful of players use based on the argument that other players benefit from that, because it's not going to be much of a selling point to those who only benefit from it (especially when that benefit is dependent upon what the few using it actually do, not what they can do). It's only a selling point to those who will actually use it.
Which is why I feel the argument that needs to be made is to make the system available to be used by all players, not just a benefit to all players.
@Quasadu
"We must prepare for DOOM and hope for FREEM." - SirFrederick
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You're not. It's one of the items on the "big three" post I made a page or so back in the thread (and I know others have suggested it in the past, I'm not trying to take credit for it). I think it's an absolutely critical feature that must be on the roadmap for any significant improvements to the system.
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Originally Posted by Redlynne
I simply *can't* be the first person to wish it was possible to assign Base Edit access privileges on a Room by Room basis, using the exact same model as what we (now) have for Storage Racks.
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@Quasadu
"We must prepare for DOOM and hope for FREEM." - SirFrederick
So many great ideas listed in here. Really glad I asked.
Seems like big answer to my question is that base editing just ins't sexy enough or used by enough people to warrant upgrading. I'm of the opinion that improvements to base editing don't just affect the editors. We work hard to create a base for the members of our supergroups and they enjoy the benefits of our labor.
I agree that some recent changes may have made using bases less necessary. But there are plenty of simple ways to undo that while making SGs a more integral and enjoyable aspect of the game.
Travel upgrades make teleporters LESS useful (still best way to get to pocket D, RWZ or Mercy - we still need 1 for Cimerora). That could be easily fixed by removing alignment limitations and allowing Rogues, Vigilantes and those who have gone all the way to other side temporarily to continue to have unlimited base access and the ability to earn the SG travel badges for the opposite areas so SGs add teleport to those zones (so that those with access can get to and fro easily). Right now I don't bother with blueside at all - took all my heroes all the way to villain. If the above was the norm, I'd have more Rogues.
Medlabs - MORE SG BADGES TO IMPROVE FACILITIES! SG Badge that give recessitators 100% heal. SG Badge that lets up buy lvl 2 INSPS (or maybe turn in 3 of a kind for next up of same kind). Death port to base can still be fastest method of travel between some areas. Some craftable temp powers from an object in medlab would be nice too...
Storage - system still broken with or without sg. 30 items is ridiculous and what about recipes? How about a TF that (like Silver Mantis) is accessible from the in base Oracle or from an outside base contact. Successful completion a badge that gives you recipe storage - successful completion with members of same SG gets a SG badge that gives access to a recipe storage item. Like notices of the well - special reward only available once a week, but adds up - so 1st week might give u 5 recipe storage, another 5 next week and so on - up to a cap of 100 or so.
Same idea could work for vault and base storage upgrades. If the storage upgrades are EARNED and small but repeatable (once a week) that would make the argument that that suggests such upgrades would cause a sudden global salvage shortage at market moot.
Empowerment Buffs - although I included these in base - noone uses them very often. A longer window OR better yet a multiple arc (very tough) TF sending us after esoteric and unique salvage ingredients to create an Object of Power would get used a LOT more. Again no more than 1 ingredient could be earned per week - might be 5-10 items needed to create the Object of Power.
Roleplaying - often ignored but very much an aspect of the game. This would be SO enhanced by simply adding more items and textures (there are so many 3D objects we see in missions daily that would enhance bases). The ability for ANY player to create a secret lair would REALLY be a bonus to many - 1 medium sized room, with placeable walls for division and a few more domestic objects like beds, TVs that look less like a hospital monitor etc. If they just added more textures - some water, grass, sky, marble and some of the lovely finishes from Praetoria it would be a great start.
I use base editing as a reward for my highest rank - once someone attains it we pick out a space in the base for them to play. I'd much prefer to have an option like a barracks room where members with enough rank can add a door to their own personal space. Because even though i use maximum plot, eventually I will run out of rooms.
PVP - Not really my thing, so I'll admit I don't really understand what pathing was or why it was necessary for PVP. But how about adding a new kind of room or an in base teleport connection to the Arena so 2 SGs can schedule a rumble and teleport into a Danger Room type area where they fight each other, common enemies in a custom environment. ANY member of the SG could play with the Danger Room editor (which could be same as AE editor - but more control over map would be nice), create a battlespace, form a team and send out a challenge to another SG.
Founder of The Obsidian Oath as Briarthorne
Here are the things that I believe will get more people using bases:
1. Add a tailor option
2. Add a WW/BM terminal..
3. Add something similar to what is in RWZ (The dummies you can test your powers on)
4. Add communication tools... a chalkboard that messages can be left on.
5. Add a SG calendar option... like a clickable desk where SGs can organize events etc
6. Add personal rooms that can be assigned to a global handle that has base editing capabilities/privileges.
7. Add some of the thousands of pieces of map items we see in missions.
8. Add a merit vendor
9. Create 1-4 more SG TFs that require a mission computer.
10. Add the ability to send off-line invites via email...more people would probably start their own personal SGs this way.
11. Reduce the prestige/inf penalty even more.
12. Have the SG costume available at the base tailor so it is a simple one click/load like we can do with our personal costumes.
13. Make a SG Accolade (ala atlas medallion/freedom phalanx reserve).... complete a SG TF (or two) and spend x amount of time in SG mode..or something similar for the requirements.
14. Add personal SG badges... "Earned x amount of prestige" "Took so much damage while in SG mode"... not SG badges.. personal badges.
And those are a few of my ideas 
For bases to see any real attention in the future they need to be a part of a new issue in some way. I touched on this in a post I made awhile back (for the curious http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=251896).
Basically bases on their own will not be enough to warrant the attention they need. But if there was a whole issue worth of content that relied on a system related to the base builder that could entice new subscribers or reactivation of old subscribers, THEN you could expect to see effort devoted to overhauling the base building system. Consider a new issue called "The World and Beyond!" an issue which features new environments/locations we don't have currently like outer space, other planets, etc.
For bases to get overhauled it will likely require a new type of tech to be made for the game... think of say the old Neverwinter Nights toolset. The CoH dev team needs a simplified tool like that to build new areas quickly and easily. This tool could in turn be adapted for base construction and possibly incorporated into AE for creating custom mission maps. Such a tool could lead to new environments for CoH like outer space, underwater or other unique/exotic environments as mentioned previously.
We won't ever see an issue devoted to base building. But base building can be overhauled if a new issue justifies the time and expense. The only way it can do that however is in a scenario like I mentioned above. If you read the topic I linked above you can see examples of how this tech could be used to improve the game over all and be issue worthy material.
Jem - Ill/Rad Controller Lv 50+3 Nic - Mind/Psi Dominator Lv 50+3 Lady Liberation - Invuln/SS Tanker Lv 50+1 Invicitx - Demon/Pain Mastermind Lv 50+1 Celeste - Emp/Arch Defender Lv 50+1 Nightsilver - DB/WP Scrapper Lv 34 Dusk Howl - StJ/Regen Brute Lv 32 Kyriani - Time/Energy Defender Lv 41Psifire - FF/Psi Defender Lv 50
Star Lighter - LB/LA Peacebringer Lv 30
What about a SERIES of purchasable expansion packs... Circle of Thorns items, Carnie items, Rikti Items. I bet these would sell well. Would be like personal items - all could see them once placed but only base editors who have the pack con place them.
The KNOW we want them. Sell them to us one group at a time?
or make them more vet reward placeable items?
Founder of The Obsidian Oath as Briarthorne
How many people in your group are base builders? I can say that in a group that is now down to 15, only 2 are. Before, when we had 30 members, the number was double that in my group: 4 players.
The numbers get worse for large groups, where it might be 3-4 of 150 characters (possibly only one player) allowed to edit bases. Does that show "mass appeal"?
Nothing you have said proves my point invalid. Super Groups are an aspect of the game which effect a majority of the Player Base. Super Groups have Bases. Bases are an aspect of the game which effects a major portion of the player base.
Editing the decorations in a base is currently only available to a minority. But Bases themselves have a farther reaching impact on the game. We should reinforce that instead of perpetuating the fallacy that Bases are only for a tiny fraction of the player base.
My suggestion is for people to stop prefacing their suggestions with 'I know this will only effect a small part of the player base' when in fact Bases have a larger impact.
"SARS, Bird Flue, 9/11, Anthrax in the Mail, Mad Cow Disease. Pope John Paul didn't die, he preboarded." - Christopher Titus "5th Annual End of the World Tour"