Who loves knockback?

I have a Love/Hate relationship with Knockback. It really depends on the character and the circumstances. I mostly play my Energy/Energy Blaster, my Grav/Storm and Ill/Storm controllers solo. I love the knockback of Martial Art's Crane Kick even though it means that I have to go chase down my target.

On the other hand, I was playing my Broadsword/Shield scrapper last night . . . on a team with 2 Stormies (both were using Tornado a lot) and a Bonfire-happy Fire/Rad. I was really frustrated with setting up to slice-n-dice a foe, pulling out my sword only to see the foe go flying back before I could get a hit in. Every time I move the smallest amount on that character, he has to pull out the blankety-blank sword again. And I barely ever got to gather up groups to saturate AAO and smack them with Shield Charge -- everything was constantly being spread all over the place.

From a looks standpoint, Knockback is fun and very super-hero-ey. From a strategic point of view, especially for any character who relies upon AoE controls, debuffs or damage, poorly played knockback can be a nightmare.

I am split on knockback, and if I like it or not is very dependent on what character I am playing. It has it's place, for certain, and can be a fun way to play if the conditions are correct. Otherwise it is problematic and possibly even frustrating.

One example of knockback fun is when I play my Ill/Storm Controller with my friend's Ill/Kin Controller (who loves to use Repel). Between Phantom Army, two Phantasms, lightning storm, hurricane, tornado, repel and freezing rain we get a lot of chaos.

So, when we team with others (since we usually duo) we try very hard to make sure to pick up all the Storm Defenders, Energy Blasters and any other set that does knockback so that they can just unleash all their powers, like you know they want to, with no worry that someone might get mad that they knocked some mobs around. In fact, on these teams we encourage it because it makes it safer for the team as a whole and it is very fun.

Then on the flip side, an example of when I dislike it is when I play my Spines/Inv Scrapper because I am almost all AoE damage and if you knock them away I suffer in two ways. One, I lose a lot of DPS because now the mobs are spread all over the place and my attacks miss most of the mobs, and two I lose a lot defense and survivability because no one is in my Invulnerability power to help boost my Defense.

So, it just depends, but yes I like it when I am intentionally teaming with that in mind.

Before the advent of incarnate stuff, I played mostly solo and always loved knockback except on my squishies who depend on things being nicely bunched near anchors (such as my rad/rad defender). I adored KB on my En/Dev blaster, it made my Claws scrapper much more durable and Nova's KB was what saved my WS's behind many times when he met a void/quantum before having his hold or dwarf form. The only time it annoyed me a bit was when PA and Phantasm decided to knock EVERYONE away JUST before my FS! But that was rare and my controller was often walking around damage-capped, even solo.

(And I assume KD doesn't count in this discussion, 'cause EVERYONE loves KD, right? It was pure joy for my /Axe Tanker, for instance.)

Anyway, then I started teaming more to get shards and components and stuff and, not having teamed much before (especially not large teams with strangers), I subconciously started behaving like I believed two of the most widespread prejudices I had heard of before: that KB sucks in large teams and that Stalkers don't bring as much as other ATs. My En/Dev Blaster and my DM/SR Stalker where my last 50s to get something slotted in their alpha, I only did it this week. Both prejudices, of course, proved false...

My stalker, as I kinda guessed, was very tough fighting large mobs of Cimerorans (seeing my DDR working for its pay was great, he only died once in two runs, in a speed run, because the RNG was evil while he was surrounded alone by a large mob of bosses) and I did contribute pretty decent damage even in a steamrolling team, even though it took me a bit to figure out how (picking my AS or auto-crit targets faster but still properly and only ASing very tough baddies, plus abusing Shadow Maul and Sands of Mu - which actually made a mini AoE chain with enough global recharge, accuracy and +to hit).

What surprised me most, though, was my blaster. At first I was being very careful with my KB AoEs, mostly picking single targets to maul and send flying... But as I kept using the AoEs now and then, I noticed they did not disrupt the team as much as I thought they would, and didn't even disrupt my following AoEs. I don't know if Cims have some KB resistance, if my hovering above the battle (for survival really, not as an anti-KB thing) helped a lot, or if the controller(s) were keeping the baddies glued to the floor... What it looked like to me, though, is that there were so many Cims on top of our melee guys all the time, and more running towards them all the time, that despite the amount I knocked away, there were always enough for the meleers to smash or cut, and always enough for my following AoEs. Things were dying VERY fast in that run, and I wasn't even the only source of KB (we also had illusion pets and a PB). It was a ton of fun, and an education about the non-evils of KB!

Quote:

Originally Posted by SlaveDawg Then on the flip side, an example of when I dislike it is when I play my Spines/Inv Scrapper because I am almost all AoE damage and if you knock them away I suffer in two ways. One, I lose a lot of DPS because now the mobs are spread all over the place and my attacks miss most of the mobs, and two I lose a lot defense and survivability because no one is in my Invulnerability power to help boost my Defense.

With my Spines/Dark, external KB never messed up my damage... because she always runs ahead and shoots first! By the time the rest of the team caught up to me, I had grabbed a ton of aggro by mauling the baddies with Throw Spines from afar and Spine Burst in their midst. Only by the time SB did damage were the baddies being scattered by KB from the team, but since they were around me when I activated the power, it still worked out, and there were usually still a few left around me to pull out a needed heal. Then I'd hunt a clump of two or three survivors (hopefully including a boss or two) to rip with Ripper and move on to the next mob, hardly ever even needing to do any cleaning up with my ST attacks (even though it's always a joy impaling the back of some runner from a distance), unless there was an AV involved.

Even her heal, that requires having people around, was hardly ever messed up by KB... After a couple LGTFs and one ITF that she tanked, I think she only died once due to me hitting her heal just after everyone who surrounded her had been blown away by KB and someone hit me from afar with a pretty hard ranged attack. She also died to Hami and once before I figured out about Rommy's stunning rez, but that had nothing to do with KB...

So... Long story short... I now enjoy KB both solo AND in teams, whether I'm the one doing it, or the one meleeing people that are being thrown on their backs.

Knockback is okay, but KnockUP is awesome!

That's me. Knockup/down is awesome (and makes me dislike AOE Immobilizes that prevent them) but knockback is very situational and depends more on the skill of the player than other forms of mitigation - especially in a team.

I don't know how many times my dark tank has had an entire spawn blown in multiple directions away from me by an energy blaster while I was triggering either my heal or build up power. It is true they all eventually come back and the annoyance is short-lived and I've gotten used to it... but it always seemed to just slow things down to me. I always warn the KB-crazy people that I never chase knockbacks and they need to clean up their own messes.

Now... on an entirely different aspect... Knockback is awesome at making you feel SUPER! And if an enemy can knock ME down then that makes me feel like "uh oh, this guy is STRONG! I need to stay away from him!" Yeah, love/hate relationship with it.

Good to see that are some people that like it. I agree with the disadvantages on teams, which is why I will attempt to put together an all knockback team for serious awesome. Hopefully some knockback lovers are online (liberty mostly) the same time that I am.

I love knockback in every game, every time.


Which sets (if any) for Brutes or Stalkers offer knockback?

Knockback on teams. I am not a knockback player, but I love watching it. I love adjusting my playstyle when someone uses it. I love watching other players get flustered when they can't bunch and crunch.

I love watching a team evolve around a knockback situation, feeling for the corners of their niche, dragging out old powers to fight on, learning to live on the wild edge of flying bodies and mayhem.

Very few of my characters have knockwack or even use it regularly. But I appreciate the simple beauty of it. Knockback is like garlic. Add it to anything to make it better. Loose the hounds of physical displacement! Enemies stand up, and then are tossed into the corner or off a bridge or into trafic. See and believe! NPCs are paper airplaines. Fly them heroically across the map. haha. haha. HAHAHAHAHAHA!

Those who don't like it? Pampers.