Ice, Shut Your Psy-hole. How Do You Do It?


Aett_Thorn

 

Posted

Subject sort of says it. How do you close off the psy hole in Ice Armor's defense?


Current:
Fridgerato - Traps/Ice (Frdm)
Gadgetron - Grav/TA (Lbrty)

Ice/Kin Guide

 

Posted

+Def from powers(Weave, CJ, Maneuvers), and +Def from IO's(Steadfast +3%, Scirocco's 6-slot bonus, Devastation 6-slot bonus, Apocalypse 6-slot bonus, PVP +3%). You can also slot for +Resistance(Crushing Impact 6-slot bonus, Impervium +3%, Aegis +3%, PVP +3%) but it won't be nearly as effective as +Def.


Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster

 

Posted

Get Hoarfrost to recharge as quickly as possible.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clouded View Post
Get Hoarfrost to recharge as quickly as possible.
bingo


The hard things I can do--- The impossible just take a little bit longer.

If numbers are so much more important than a teammate who is fun to play with, forget about the game altogether and go play with a calculator instead. -Claws and Effect-

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clouded View Post
Get Hoarfrost to recharge as quickly as possible.
Except Hoarfrost covers the toxic hole and makes you overall tougher, not better against psi in particular. Hoarfrost isn't that good against psi enemies either, due to the common -recharge.


Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster

 

Posted

More HP the hard you are to kill.. its that simple..


The hard things I can do--- The impossible just take a little bit longer.

If numbers are so much more important than a teammate who is fun to play with, forget about the game altogether and go play with a calculator instead. -Claws and Effect-

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Airhammer View Post
More HP the hard you are to kill.. its that simple..
This. +HP is almost the same as adding in +Resistance to everything. Sure, it contains a +Res(Toxic), but that doesn't mean it won't help against everything.

Other than that, the +Psionic Def/Res IOs and set bonuses, and +Def(all) powers are the only real ways to increase your protection.

However, you can also close to melee range, and CE will lower their damage against you.


Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson

"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Airhammer View Post
More HP the hard you are to kill.. its that simple..
Yes, but it's not really shutting any psy holes. Getting high recharge for Hoarfrost is what all Ice Tankers should do in general, but it isn't what OP asked for the way I understood it.


Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by AWRocketman View Post
Subject sort of says it. How do you close off the psy hole in Ice Armor's defense?
In short. You don't. Unadulterated Psi damage is about as rare as hen's teeth in the game. As such, your other typed defenses should shore you up quite nicely.

As such, the advice to get Hoarfrost's recharge down (basically for the heal) is good.



Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyperstrike View Post
In short. You don't. Unadulterated Psi damage is about as rare as hen's teeth in the game. As such, your other typed defenses should shore you up quite nicely.

As such, the advice to get Hoarfrost's recharge down (basically for the heal) is good.
B I N G O was his name O.....


The hard things I can do--- The impossible just take a little bit longer.

If numbers are so much more important than a teammate who is fun to play with, forget about the game altogether and go play with a calculator instead. -Claws and Effect-

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by AWRocketman View Post
Subject sort of says it. How do you close off the psy hole in Ice Armor's defense?
You don't, because it's a waste of limited resources. You only have so many slots for whatever sets will benefit you. Starting from a position of 0 def and 0 resistance and trying to get significant numbers will gimp other aspects of your character.

I tanked the Mother Mayhem mission on my invuln without dying once. That's an entire map of psi enemies. If Dull Pain wasn't up, I used a single medium purple insp to keep the incoming damage at a reasonable level. By the time it was running out, I had either gotten another or gotten 3 of something else I could combine. Please note, my invuln has over 300% regen so when Dull Pain caps his hit points, the regen rate has a big impact. My thinking was that +regen works against *ALL* damage. And it works very well indeed.


Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by AWRocketman View Post
Subject sort of says it. How do you close off the psy hole in Ice Armor's defense?
another vote for You Don't

Not every armor is going to be almighty against every type of damage, nor does every armor have to be almighty against every type of damage.

The design of the game is that each set has... get this... trade-offs! That's right! You don't get to have your cake and eat it too. Sometimes you have to choose whether or not to put that cake on display, or nom it all.

In the case of Ice Armor, the set has virtually no resistances. Anything that hits you (outside of chilling embrace's -damage debuff) is going to hit you for max damage. However, the lack of resistance is balanced by Ice's ability to 45% soft-cap on SO's to Smashing, Lethal, Energy, and Negative Energy damage. Ice's Hoarforst has the ability to reach the old Hitpoint cap, and contains a powerful heal. Ice can also sap Endurance from enemies. Two swipes of endurance modification slotted Energy Absorbtion and most enemies won't have any endurance left.

Using Ice Armor effectively involves putting All of these mitigation techniques to use. Not just one or two.

You have to be prepared, and willing, to deal with enemies that are not convenient to play against. Psi based enemies are intentional problems for Ice Armor. You have to learn to be flexible and adjust what you do when you come up against opponents with Psi damage. Sometimes that means setting back and letting a Dark, Willpower, Electric, or Stone Armor with Minerals take the point. Sometimes it means having to settle for the fact that you will have to use hibernate. Sometimes it means that you'll have to settle for the fact that something CAN defeat you.

And that getting defeated, and not being all-powerful in every conceivable situation... is NOT a bad thing.


 

Posted

Another vote for You Don't...with psi def bonuses.

Hoarfrost + Max HP from set bonuses and accolades gets my ice/fire tank to the HP cap; that's a ton of mitigation right there.

Consider getting and slotting Darkest Night from the Soul Mastery pool. The debuff is excellent, and Energy Absorption gives you the end to run it while still attacking full-tilt.


50s:
Grimmloch, Tactically Delicious, Ugly Frankie, Operative Tracker, CryoFurnace, Professional Help, Silver Sphinx, Aries Knight, Tachyon Aegis, Jade Sphinx
Currently building:
Any one of half a dozen alts!

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Auroxis View Post
+Def from powers(Weave, CJ, Maneuvers), and +Def from IO's(Steadfast +3%, Scirocco's 6-slot bonus, Devastation 6-slot bonus, Apocalypse 6-slot bonus, PVP +3%). You can also slot for +Resistance(Crushing Impact 6-slot bonus, Impervium +3%, Aegis +3%, PVP +3%) but it won't be nearly as effective as +Def.
I can't speak to building Ice Armor. I have a 50 I leveled with basic IOs, but put him on the injured reserve.

However, Invul (which I do play) has the same issue and the same conventional wisdom, to counter Psi with a fast recharging Dull Pain. I decided to buck the conventional wisdom and build up Psi def. I found that not only is the answer "You can" it's also "You can and the 'sacrifices' aren't at all a hardship".

Most of the ingredients are found in the post I quoted.

Additionally, 3 slots of Impervium Armor, 6 slots of Soulbound Allegiance and 6 slots of Miracle.

I capped Psi def, but I hated the patron pet. It melted in the aoes so I respecced out the pet and settled for 42% psi def, which will be 43 when I get Nerve Total Radial Revamp.

I won't get in to what the best means are for Ice to counter Psi. I will suggest to the OP that, using the suggestion in Auroxis's first post above and this one, you make a build in Mids to see how you would arrive at high Psi Def and then you can evaluate if the "opportunity cost" from other slotting makes it worthwhile or not.


Global = Hedgefund (or some derivation thereof)

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Telperion View Post
Another vote for You Don't...with psi def bonuses.

Hoarfrost + Max HP from set bonuses and accolades gets my ice/fire tank to the HP cap; that's a ton of mitigation right there.

Consider getting and slotting Darkest Night from the Soul Mastery pool. The debuff is excellent, and Energy Absorption gives you the end to run it while still attacking full-tilt.
This. Not only does Darkest Night have -to hit to stack with Ice Armor's Defense, it also has -damage to stack with Chilling Embrace. Haven't checked real numbers ingame, but Mids has a 14% damage debuff from CE and 21% from DN. That means the potential for 35% damage debuffs to foes who can't resist it. Add that to +Hp from Hoarfrost and IO bonuses and you have a pretty decent amount of mitigation on top of your defenses. In terms of Psi damage, my Ice/Ice/Soul tank doesn't get hit by EVERY psi attack thrown at him. I've tanked several Psi AVs and, while I do get hit more often than attacks I'm softcapped against, I don't worry about it unless both Hoarfrost and Hibernate are down.


SG: Guadians of Paragon - VG: Paragon's Darkness
The Usual Suspects: Fimboolvetr (Icer Tank), Tsukiyomi (Mind/Psi/Ice Dom), Smiting Dragon (Dm/Sr Scrap), Widow Mortis (NW)
Up and Comers: Ameterasu (Km/Reg Scrap), Arrhymian (Elec/Nin Stalk), TDMKII (Bot/Traps MM)

 

Posted

Eh. I have an Invulnerability Tanker (Invulnerability: Home of the Infamous Psi Hole!) who does NOT have any specific investment in Psi defense, nor does he have hasten, nor does he have perma-Dull Pain. He does have Weave, Combat Jumping, and the Steadfast 3% IO. and his Dull Pain recharges 25 seconds or so after it expires.

I recently went on a Synapse TF and was exposed to a fair amount of psi, while exemplared with fewer attacks and under-enhanced powers. I completely ignored the psi attackers and let my native regeneration (ONE slot in Health) take care of it, plus some fairly occasional weak heals from a teammate. Later, I blundered into the Clockwork King without realizing it, and he opened with his psi alpha. My health went way down very fast...I hit Dull Pain and then the Elusive Mind accolade power you get from fighting Rikti Invasions, and I was fine.

I'm not saying I'd choose the set to solo psionic AVs, but in a pretty varied career, I haven't found the "psi hole" much of a problem, and a well-timed Dull Pain does indeed fix at least one big nasty alpha surprise. Hoarfrost should actually work even better, from what I understand.


If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
----------------------------------------------------------

The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironblade View Post
You don't, because it's a waste of limited resources. You only have so many slots for whatever sets will benefit you. Starting from a position of 0 def and 0 resistance and trying to get significant numbers will gimp other aspects of your character.

I tanked the Mother Mayhem mission on my invuln without dying once. That's an entire map of psi enemies. If Dull Pain wasn't up, I used a single medium purple insp to keep the incoming damage at a reasonable level. By the time it was running out, I had either gotten another or gotten 3 of something else I could combine. Please note, my invuln has over 300% regen so when Dull Pain caps his hit points, the regen rate has a big impact. My thinking was that +regen works against *ALL* damage. And it works very well indeed.
Same here. I did Mother Mayhem with my Inv and everyone on the them was like.. The Tank is gonna die. I tanked Mother Mayhem no problem... Sure. it was a challenge.. Dull Pain and a veyr high regen makes a huge difference.

Ice has Hoarfrost and Hibernate as tools to help survival


The hard things I can do--- The impossible just take a little bit longer.

If numbers are so much more important than a teammate who is fun to play with, forget about the game altogether and go play with a calculator instead. -Claws and Effect-

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailboat View Post
I recently went on a Synapse TF and was exposed to a fair amount of psi, while exemplared with fewer attacks and under-enhanced powers. I completely ignored the psi attackers and let my native regeneration (ONE slot in Health) take care of it, plus some fairly occasional weak heals from a teammate. Later, I blundered into the Clockwork King without realizing it, and he opened with his psi alpha. My health went way down very fast...I hit Dull Pain and then the Elusive Mind accolade power you get from fighting Rikti Invasions, and I was fine.
Other than the Clockwork King, I do not think Synapse features any Psi damage?


Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Auroxis View Post
Except Hoarfrost covers the toxic hole and makes you overall tougher, not better against psi in particular. Hoarfrost isn't that good against psi enemies either, due to the common -recharge.
To each their own. My Ice/Axe tank has Hoarfrost recharging in ~110s with Hasten and it was enough to withstand Mother Mayhem at +3, IIRC. There are other bells and whistles, but this is how I cover the Psi hole while maintaining high levels of defense with EA.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by StratoNexus View Post
Other than the Clockwork King, I do not think Synapse features any Psi damage?
Eh, I saw a lot of the psi-damage animations coming at me from the little clocks. I guess it could be a different damage type that uses the psi animations.


If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
----------------------------------------------------------

The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by StratoNexus View Post
Other than the Clockwork King, I do not think Synapse features any Psi damage?
Not that I've ever noticed. Aside from the King, it's all smashing and electric. Now, the standard-looking clockwork in the Lady Grey TF are a different story....


Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironblade View Post
Not that I've ever noticed. Aside from the King, it's all smashing and electric. Now, the standard-looking clockwork in the Lady Grey TF are a different story....
Ah mud...I did run a Lady Gray later that same day. Can I plead "too many hours on TFs"?


If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
----------------------------------------------------------

The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Auroxis View Post
Except Hoarfrost covers the toxic hole and makes you overall tougher, not better against psi in particular. Hoarfrost isn't that good against psi enemies either, due to the common -recharge.
Did you just mention -recharge on an ice tank thread?

Ice tanks are completely IMMUNE to slows, this makes them good on at least that aspect of fighting psy.


"Fascinating. I'm not bored at all, I swear." -Kikuchiyo

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katten View Post
Did you just mention -recharge on an ice tank thread?

Ice tanks are completely IMMUNE to slows, this makes them good on at least that aspect of fighting psy.
Yes I was wrong, thank you for digging up this thread to remind me


Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster