How about the Sentry?
Just kidding. I actually think he should be erased and forgotten.
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Well, I think the new ones lack dedication, to help get them to icon status.
Also, some of the newer ones tend to be on the gritty side way to much, which doesn't help them get to the iconic stage.
Spawn, I think could of made it to icon status if Todd McFarlane kept with it more. It's still going, so there's always that chance. The movie probably didn't help any.
Witchblade and The Darkness could as well, if they pushed it a bit.
Wildstorm (The studio) characters had that chance, but it's like they were just abandoned.
People say all these things about creator owned rights, but I think that really only comes down to the ones that ARE iconic now. And it took the publishing of Marvel and DC to get them there.
If they were left in the hands of just the creators back in the day, none of the icons would be icons now imo.
It feels like the new comics are more about getting that quick dollar, and less about trying to get them to be equal (iconic) to the classics (Superman, Spider-Man, Batman...ect).
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It's possible that the window for iconic characters in a given sub-genre closes within after a generation or two after its foundation. For the detective story, first there's Sherlock Holmes, then Sam Spade and Philip Marlowe; for the spy novel, first Ashenden, then James Bond; or, for sci-fi, Buck Rogers and Flash Gordon, then (and this is the widest gap), Captain Kirk and Luke Skywalker. Afterwards, knock-offs and homages clutter the scene.
That said, Judge Dredd of 2000 AD has an original and iconic presence in comics and presents an even more interesting take on heroism than the berserker/borderline anti-hero Wolverine (a near-contemporary). A decade later, Neil Gaiman's Sandman is a more obvious example since the character was intended to be iconic, or at least archetypal, from the beginning.
(As for the 90s, Spider Jerusalem of Transmetropolitan has a considerable underground following, but I'm not in a position of sufficient familiarity to argue for his iconic status.)
Spawn is really the only one that comes to mind.
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Venom.
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Originally Posted by Quasadu
Spawn is really the only one that comes to mind.
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Originally Posted by CaptainFoamerang
Venom.
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Originally Posted by Robo_Knight
Iron Man.
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Within the context of comic book characters i think Deadpool is currently somewhere near the same level of recognition as Venom and Spawn.
Offhand i can't think of any DC characters created in the last two decades who have a similar level of recognition.
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Maybe Kyle Rayner as GL?
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Originally Posted by Schismatrix
Okay, Spawn and Venom i can see as being fairly recent iconic comic book characters having been created in the 90s, but Iron Man has been around longer than Wolverine.
Within the context of comic book characters i think Deadpool is currently somewhere near the same level of recognition as Venom and Spawn. Offhand i can't think of any DC characters created in the last two decades who have a similar level of recognition. |
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Originally Posted by CaptainFoamerang
Maybe Kyle Rayner as GL?
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DC has many iconic franchise names that are held by different characters. GLs, Robins, Flashes, Superboys. They all have the iconic names, but can the current name holders be seen as iconic? I definately think many have the potential if they are given the opportunity, and it could definately be argued that some have even surpassed the former name holders. Wally West and Kyle Rayner come immediately to mind as does Dick Grayson although he was the first Robin.
Sailor Moon and other manga stuff that I don't really know about, because it was the generation after me.
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One question comes to mind when thinking about newer comic book characters (or even something like Harry Potter) becoming iconic is whether or not a character has to become so well known that even the "average public" knows who they are. I would argue that characters like Superman, Batman and Spiderman are now "iconic" mostly because they've become so well known that even people who've never read comic books know who they are.|
Originally Posted by Antigonus
What was the last new character created that could be considered iconic (Superman, Batman, Spiderman)? Is it possible in the current age to create new characters that are truly iconic, or has society at large changed to such a degree that we have seen the last of those kinds of characters?
After some thought, the only character that came to mind as having that kind of potential was Wolverine, and that was 37 years ago. |
Using this as a guide it's possible that Wolverine will become iconic, especially if he's featured in at least a few more movies in the next 10-20 years. Iron Man might make it if there's a few more movies with him. But I seriously doubt characters like Judge Dredd or Spawn will qualify unless they eventually have bigger breakthroughs into general popular culture.
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Sailor Moon's probably iconic in Japan at least. I've traveled to Japan several times in the last few years and I still see images of her sprinkled around on signs and shops and such. And that "other manga stuff" is still far more popular there than comic books ever thought about being in the US. |
Originally Posted by Vox Populi
Sailor Moon and other manga stuff that I don't really know about, because it was the generation after me.
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But I'm not sure if this thread's really talking "globally" iconic or iconic anywhere. *shrugs*
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I suppose it depends on how you term 'iconic' - the number of people who would recognise them? The number of media forms they span?|
Originally Posted by TrueGentleman
That said, Judge Dredd of 2000 AD has an original and iconic presence in comics
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Dredd certainly hit the mainstream conciousness over here in Brit-land long before the movie - from people wearing Dredd T-shirts on TV to newspaper headlines, but I feel he's faded away a lot now. I doubt the average-man-in-the-street would recognise him - same with Tank Girl; both great characters who were all over in the media (until sunk by a sub-par movie
).Dredd and Tank Girl pretty much lay the ground for Lara Croft, she was everywhere - now, most people would associate her with the films rather than the games. They were all iconic - but are they still? Does iconic allow for a time-limit or is it forever?
The only British Comic character I would happily sit next to Spider-man now with any hope of the average brit knowing who they were would be Dan Dare - possibly along with stuff from The Beano like Dennis the Menace; I've no idea if any would cross the pond - the US have their own Dennis so I doubt they'd recognise the UK version and he's about as iconic as they come here.
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This is the point I was stressing as far as what "iconic" actually means for the purposes of this thread. Is a character iconic because every comic book geek knows about them or are they iconic because basically -everyone- knows about them?
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Originally Posted by Bull Throttle
I suppose it depends on how you term 'iconic' - the number of people who would recognise them? The number of media forms they span?
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While the Stallone movie didn't help the character at least in the USA, I doubt he was hurt that bad in Britain. The new movie should repair any lingering damage and bring him back into the minds of the current generation. |
Originally Posted by Bull Throttle
I suppose it depends on how you term 'iconic' - the number of people who would recognise them? The number of media forms they span?
Dredd certainly hit the mainstream conciousness over here in Brit-land long before the movie - from people wearing Dredd T-shirts on TV to newspaper headlines, but I feel he's faded away a lot now. I doubt the average-man-in-the-street would recognise him - same with Tank Girl; both great characters who were all over in the media (until sunk by a sub-par movie ).Dredd and Tank Girl pretty much lay the ground for Lara Croft, she was everywhere - now, most people would associate her with the films rather than the games. They were all iconic - but are they still? Does iconic allow for a time-limit or is it forever? The only British Comic character I would happily sit next to Spider-man now with any hope of the average brit knowing who they were would be Dan Dare - possibly along with stuff from The Beano like Dennis the Menace; I've no idea if any would cross the pond - the US have their own Dennis so I doubt they'd recognise the UK version and he's about as iconic as they come here. |
For me the main question is how much longer will the character run as Dredd does age despite the medical tech of the world he lives in. How will Dredd go out? The Long Walk or in battle while upholding the law?
Place your bets.
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It's a very good question - I don't think he could ever be seen to lose against a law breaker and didn't he already do the long walk? |
Originally Posted by Nericus
For me the main question is how much longer will the character run as Dredd does age despite the medical tech of the world he lives in. How will Dredd go out? The Long Walk or in battle while upholding the law?
Place your bets. |
(I cant remember the name of the strip but it was about a very burnt/scarred guy wandering through the cursed earth, eventually revealed to be Dredd to no-one's surprise)
They've tried cloning him and that didn't work out... they've tried making him Chief Judge at least once, twice? (Haven't read it for over 10 years) I guess he'll be retiring with his Law books with fluffy slippers and Walter (or did they finally kill off the wobot?)
I suppose he'll get a re-juve and start again.
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As far as Iron Man goes, sure he's been around for ages, but I think it's debatable that the character never cracked the "iconic" glass ceiling until the movie.|
Originally Posted by Schismatrix
Okay, Spawn and Venom i can see as being fairly recent iconic comic book characters having been created in the 90s, but Iron Man has been around longer than Wolverine.
Within the context of comic book characters i think Deadpool is currently somewhere near the same level of recognition as Venom and Spawn. Offhand i can't think of any DC characters created in the last two decades who have a similar level of recognition. |
Even though Marvel has been going out of their way to mutilate the concept of the character the last 10 years, Venom's still recognizable -and- popular due to his 90's (over)exposure. Whether or not that lasts after this new series will be another matter though.
Spawn was up there, when there was a cartoon and a movie and the toys were new. Now? Hard to say. The character is -still- recognizable by most folks familiar with 90's books, but I'd say Spawn's on the verge of fading out, if it hasn't already. MacFarlane insists they're still doing a straight to DVD movie though.
Deadpool's definitely Marvel's newest "star" even though the character first appeared in 1991.
As far as DC goes, I'd put the Green Lanterns in the same boat as Iron Man, though word is the movie won't do anywhere near as well.
Can't think of any new DC characters though. Lobo, maybe?
Tales of Judgment. Also here, instead of that other place.
good luck D.B.B.
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Last I read there are some "clone-brothers" of Dredd, the first Rico went bad and Dredd dealt with him. Over time others have been created with one taking the name Rico to redeem the name. One clone decided he wasn't a machine from an assembly line and chose not to be a judge. In keeping with the mystery of what Dredd looks like, they altered his face and skin tone before releasing him. |
Originally Posted by Bull Throttle
It's a very good question - I don't think he could ever be seen to lose against a law breaker and didn't he already do the long walk?
(I cant remember the name of the strip but it was about a very burnt/scarred guy wandering through the cursed earth, eventually revealed to be Dredd to no-one's surprise) They've tried cloning him and that didn't work out... they've tried making him Chief Judge at least once, twice? (Haven't read it for over 10 years) I guess he'll be retiring with his Law books with fluffy slippers and Walter (or did they finally kill off the wobot?) I suppose he'll get a re-juve and start again. |
I think he ran for Chief Judge to help oust a corrupt chief, can't recall all the details at present.
He did resign/retire at one point and took the walk but that was part of a larger story as I recall. In the end, Dredd was back.
Need to go back and do some rereading myself. Been awhile.
The most recent iconic characters I can think of aren't from Marvel or DC. Empowered (2007) is probably iconic, but not as widely known as she should be. Certainly Girl Genius (2001) is iconic and widely known. Other indie titles that created iconic characters might be Witchblade (1995), Hellboy (1993), and Lady Death (1991). I certainly think Spider Robinson (1997) qualifies, and another Ellis book, Doktor Sleepless (2007) *might* fit.
The big two comic publishers haven't created many new characters lately. They prefer reviving old characters. Marvel had Gravity (2005) who was doing well as the new Spider-man -- young, powerful, and irreverent -- but Marvel being Marvel they killed him off rather than let the character grow. Marvel also tried introducing Machine Teen the same year. And there's Skaar, Son of Hulk (2008)...Marvel has been desperate to attract the angsty teen demographic, it seems.
For DC, well, there's Jack of Fables (2002) -- he's very iconic, but not as a superhero. I don't think OMAC (2005) makes the cut. Doomsday (1992) is probably their most recent iconic super-powered character.
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If we're now factoring in "popular cultural recognition" for a character's qualifications for iconic status, then Venom, as the weak link in the Spider-Man movie franchise, gets demoted in the same fashion as film-flops Spawn, Judge Dredd, Tank Girl, or the evidently unadaptable Punisher (whose movie career has a whopping three strikes against the character).|
Originally Posted by Agonus
Even though Marvel has been going out of their way to mutilate the concept of the character the last 10 years, Venom's still recognizable -and- popular due to his 90's (over)exposure. Whether or not that lasts after this new series will be another matter though.
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On the other hand, one could argue that mainstream recognition is overrated, especially if Hollywood's imprimatur is required. Doc Savage and the Shadow, both iconic pulp heroes, bombed at the box office, but their premiere status is indisputable. Certainly fans recognize them without prompting.
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| Deadpool's definitely Marvel's newest "star" even though the character first appeared in 1991. |
If pop culture penetration is the defining factor for iconic comics heroes, i.e. blockbuster movies, then Pixar's The Incredibles, which got their comic book after their movie, should definitely be considered iconic.
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Most of the characters you listed would probably be relatively well known to people who've entered a comic book store in the last 20 years. But does that make any of them "iconic" the way Superman and Batman are?|
Originally Posted by RemusShepherd
The most recent iconic characters I can think of aren't from Marvel or DC. Empowered (2007) is probably iconic, but not as widely known as she should be. Certainly Girl Genius (2001) is iconic and widely known. Other indie titles that created iconic characters might be Witchblade (1995), Hellboy (1993), and Lady Death (1991). I certainly think Spider Robinson (1997) qualifies, and another Ellis book, Doktor Sleepless (2007) *might* fit.
The big two comic publishers haven't created many new characters lately. They prefer reviving old characters. Marvel had Gravity (2005) who was doing well as the new Spider-man -- young, powerful, and irreverent -- but Marvel being Marvel they killed him off rather than let the character grow. Marvel also tried introducing Machine Teen the same year. And there's Skaar, Son of Hulk (2008)...Marvel has been desperate to attract the angsty teen demographic, it seems. For DC, well, there's Jack of Fables (2002) -- he's very iconic, but not as a superhero. I don't think OMAC (2005) makes the cut. Doomsday (1992) is probably their most recent iconic super-powered character. |
I still think that a complete definition of "iconic" would have to include general acknowledgment and recognition by the general public and/or popular culture. Big blockbuster movies may succeed or fail, but if your grandmother and your 4 year old cousin hasn't heard of a character then I'm not sure the adjective "iconic" applies.
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I think a big part of the problem in any media character achieving "icon" status nowadays is media dilution.
In other words, there are simply so many niche media outlets today that no one of them can capture mass attention like they did years ago.
We no longer have the Big Three networks in US TV, the comics universe is no longer split between Marvel and DC, movie studios no longer dominate, etc.
Things can, at best, hope to become temporarily popular for a few years, before the next thing comes along.
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This is a fair observation. It's quite possible that in this global Internet Age we may never again see any new single character become popular enough for long enough across all demos to become another Superman or Spider-man.
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Originally Posted by Starjammer
I think a big part of the problem in any media character achieving "icon" status nowadays is media dilution.
In other words, there are simply so many niche media outlets today that no one of them can capture mass attention like they did years ago. We no longer have the Big Three networks in US TV, the comics universe is no longer split between Marvel and DC, movie studios no longer dominate, etc. Things can, at best, hope to become temporarily popular for a few years, before the next thing comes along. |
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I mentioned the recent discussion on race and it's relevance in casting of iconic characters to my wife and it brought up another interesting question that I have been mulling over.
What was the last new character created that could be considered iconic (Superman, Batman, Spiderman)? Is it possible in the current age to create new characters that are truly iconic, or has society at large changed to such a degree that we have seen the last of those kinds of characters?
After some thought, the only character that came to mind as having that kind of potential was Wolverine, and that was 37 years ago.