Can we get a definition of casual?

"I've got two hours to kill, let me go in and try to see if I can get on that weekly tf now that I have time to kill."

Ofcourse if said person has a 50, that may or may not disqualify them from being casual.

I completely disagree with all that by I think that's what Eiko is trying to say.

Heh, I'd say those that can afford to put up any price (/em raises hand) to full-fill their instant grat needs aren't frugal and don't take their INF (play money which can be easily remade) seriously. I would say I'm most definitely NOT casual.

EDIT: I'd also argue that there are MANY MANY players like me, hence the prices on the market.

Well, frugal back then was = "I ain't gots the monies " and no instant gratification was = "I ain't gots the monies ".

I kinda liked that.

Well, I think that somewhat explains the stance toward the "ebil marketeers who are clearly manipulating the market" (and I've definitely seen this attitude in game). Casual folk (or at least a certain segment) want the instant gratification but haven't spent time building up their own wealth, preferring either to level alt after alt rather than play at 50 or else not selling much on the market themselves.

They get an IO they want to craft and discover it needs a common salvage that's currently selling high, like 500k. If they put in a 1000 inf bid and left it overnight, they'd almost certainly get one, but that's far too long. So resentment over "being forced" to pay the high prices sets in.

Pretty much, however I will say I have multiple level 50s

...close to my view. I'd say: style, attitude, approach. I don't think your diagnosis questions really hit the mark, though, because, as I see it...

1. It's possible to approach the market casually and still make oodles of inf.
2. It's possible to spend a lot of time logged in during the week and still be casual.
3. It's possible to be casual and use Mids (though, yah, that's starting to push it).
4. It's certainly possible to read the forums and be a casual player.
5. Casual players may very well know what a shard is and want them. It's just going to take them a longer time to accumulate them.
6. It's possible, and even likely, for a casual player to be a badger.
7. It's definitely possible to be a casual PVPer, because I'm one of them.


To me, casual is less about investment of time and more about investment of focus.

For example, let's say you have two players. They're both into the game. They are both logged in at least a couple hours a night...

Player 1 is in a large supergroup with established TF nights, has multiple 50s (most, if not all of them, function-oriented), has optimized builds for their characters (built in Mids), and likely knows many arcane details about game functionality. Their time in-game is spent on goal-oriented gaming. Could be doing TFs, could be solo-farming, could be PVPing, but whatever it is, they're getting something done.

Player 2 is also in a supergroup, but it's small and laid back. People in the group log in, hang out, bat around what to do, and maybe end up doing some missions or something. This player might also have multiple 50s, but the characters have been accumulated over a longer stretch of time, aren't optimized (except maybe one or two), and weren't created to fill any particular niche or excel at a specific function. When logged in, Player 2 tends to do game activities that aren't very demanding: maybe collecting badges, idling at the market, or soloing at their own comfortable pace. If this person does a TF, it's probably spur of the moment, either with their friends or on a PUG. Basically, they're opportunists about that sort of thing.

Both of these players invest a lot of time into the game, but, by my measure Player 2 is still very much a casual player, because they're not committing to the gameplay. In fact, Player 1 could spend less time in the game, and still be far more invested in it.

Casual players either can't be that focused and goal-driven (for example, they're prone to frequent RL interruptions or they don't have the time/patience for it) and/or they just don't want to be (maybe they're deeply dedicated to another game, like EVE, and they play CoH as a low intensity change-of-pace). Whatever the case, the more coordination, (immediate) attention, and (unbroken) time investment any given game activity demands, the less likely a casual player is going to be a participant in it.

In general, I'd say casual players are prone to solo (though not all soloists are casual) because they can just log in and do it, no matter their schedule. I'd say they're attracted to things like badge collecting and market play, because those activities don't require a lot of coordination and can be interrupted without issue. Their focus can be deep, but only for sporadic, short-lived periods (hence why they might have Mids, and might have a few tricked-out characters). If they visit the forums, they're probably strictly lurkers or they maintain a relatively shallow involvement and low profile.

And, strange as the dynamic is... as this game very much accommodates a casual approach, casual players are probably apt to spend more time on it than hardcore gamers are. So, insofar as City is concerned, I don't think time investment is a very useful measure for identifying casual play.

Oh, and as for PVP... I engage in it occasionally, when the mood strikes, either at an open PVP event or in the Arena with some friends. It factors into my character building not at all. Not even on my Stalker. Thus, I consider myself a casual PVPer.

Anywho, thanks for starting this thread. Subject's been on my mind lately, so it's nice to be able to contribute to a dialogue about it.

By that last paragraph, I'm definitely casual. I guess I'm sort of hardcore about it, though.

1. I vary. Sometimes I spend all my free time on CoH. Right now, I'm taking a break. Was busy with real life last week, and was going to take Sister P week off anyway.

2. I know someone who has maxed out inf on all her alts. Each one plays the market. That sounds like too much work to me. She told me her method, and I spent three weeks earning about two billion, then stopped marketing entirely. I'll pick it up when I need money again, or feel like it.

3. Badging is not interesting to me. If the character wants the title, I'll get it and use it. Otherwise, I'd rather just read all the badge texts on the net, pick up the lore, and skip the grind. I'm happy to help someone else badging most of the time though, if they need a lot of wolfies killed or something.

4. I don't use mids. I try out builds on test, and do everything in my head as a delta from what I have now. I don't worry about what it looks like at 50 until I'm close to that level.

5. I'm not willing to do what it takes to get the really popular purple sets. I pretty much just use sleep, stun, and confuse. Mostly I'd rather get the set bonuses from Thunderstrikes, Oblits, and Touch of Death/Crushing Impact. I'd probably start using Ragnarok next, as the targeted aoe sets don't do much for me. Also, except in the case of overwhelmingly cool powers (Phantom Army, Soul Drain) I don't tend to build for recharge that much. Squishies go for ranged defense first, and fit recharge in when they can.

6. Been to the Shard, would have to look up how to get back, know where to look it up. Haven't done the TFs because I've heard they're really long, and I'm not a completionist. Might change if they become TF of the week.

7. I don't think I know anyone that's generated a 50 for every three months they've played. Maybe one person. I started around the first Halloween, and a year ago I had no 50s. Now I have six. Eventually, I hope to have about ten or so.

8. There are forums? ...ok, guess I qualify here.

What about farming? Any serious player has a farmer, right, to get the purples? AV soloing? That's serious.

To me, it all seems kind of arbitrary. I test my good characters on high difficulty solo missions, and those are the ones I'll bring when my friends want to take on a challenge. I'm deathly serious about being as good as I can with my dark/sonic defender and my energy blaster, but I'm casual as hell about scrappers.

I'd say a non-casual player has the ability to run tough content. They're the ones you invite to your Apex. I don't care how much inf they have, if they choose to use purples, whether they've won any costume contests, gone to a meet and greet, or gotten the badge for going to that spot next to that one thing in that zone. So long as they're decent players with at least one good alt, they're serious enough for me.

Or, alternatively, I meant what I said and I said it for a specific reason you just don't want to put any significant time thinking about.

In this case, its not just the decision to log in that is significant, because even if you colloquially call it "plan to" join a WST, that's not a plan, that is a hopeful expectation. However, that's different from logging in and planning to join a WST in the explicit literal sense of making plans and executing them in terms of finding and joining forming WSTs: "see if I can get onto" is different from "plan" especially when you were the one to put "plan" in quotes, suggestinng that you don't consider that to be true planning. I was referring to actual planning, not "planning" that requires qualifications.

You have a habit of not extending any benefit of the doubt to posters, and swing regularly with fighting words while acting surprised when you get hit back. Eventually, I will assume that you do it because you enjoy initiating fights, and cease any further attempts to dampen them.

Decide how you wish to be treated, and act accordingly.

That is why its a diagnosis list rather than hard and fast checklist - its possible to be a casual player who does some part of that... but once you do all of it, you're probably not casual. (Also, re: #5 - I was referring to the Shadow Shard. Incarnate shards i think actually work pretty well for casual players because they don't involve doing anything crazy special, and they work awesomely for me because hopping on a PuG and running a TF is exactly what I like to do with my playtime. The hard part about Incarnates for me was the initial story arc. Soloing story arcs is my definition of hell.)

I do think that there is an amount of time where the approach to the game becomes no longer casual - even if your approach to gameplay and game goals still is. Purely from the fact that someone who is spending enough time in game to call it a part time job... I just can't justify calling that a casual interest in the game, no mater what they are doing. (That's some hardcore Atlas Park dancing, right there.) That isn't a casual hobby any more, that's a focus of your life. However, there is a lot of overlap, its possible to be a non casual, highly focused player on much less gameplay time than double digit hours a week.

They are all squidgy guess marks. I left PvP off because while I think casual PvP is mythical, what I know about PvP can fit on the head of a pin, so my thoughts are irrelevant. While there is probably a way to examine casual PvP vs. focused PvP, I won't know it anyway.

You can casually hunt for badges, but I don't think you can casually have a badging toon. Having a toon for badges is a focused effort. (You can certainly be casual about the rest of the game, but if you have a badging toon, you're not a casual badger.) I don't think you can casually set out to experience all the Praetorian storyline either. Hmm... turning off xp might be a good one to look at too.

Again, these are measurements on a continuum, so its not each one is a black and white line, but that if, taken as a whole, you lean more one way than another, you might be casual.

I think its more accurate to say that the number of players that do not self-identify as hardcore players vastly outweighs the number that do.

The problem is that we usually *define* hardcore implicitly in terms relative to the average player. I don't think most people would call using Mids "hardcore" in this game, because its not all that uncommon and the tool is relatively easy to use. However, doing the same thing pre-Mids would have been considered hard core due to the amount of work and calculations involved.

But if we define hardcore as people who do the stuff most people don't do, they'll always be the minority by definition.

I simply said that what you said I said was not what I said. Which is something you do all the time (not say I said things, but correct people's impression of what you said.)

It's not always about you. Sometimes, it's about making a point and making sure it's heard in the context of what someone else said.

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Softcapping an Invuln is fantastic. Softcapping a Willpower is amazing. Softcapping SR is kissing your sister.

You said the only way I could say what I said is if I deliberately misread what you said. I delivered an alternate explanation, which means your assertion, and the certainty with which it was delivered, were both in error. Whatever caused you to be certain about something that was false is something you should consider eliminating from your thought process.

If *I* say "the only way" its because I'm prepared to prove it upon request. Separately, I do not tend to assume people's thought process is faulty unless they give repeated unambiguous proof of it. Its not the first thing I think to type as a response. Its not a reasonable assertion to make against another poster without proof.

Its not, you know, a casual attitude.

... she said she said.

See my Guides and Tutorials

By the seashore.

Who's on first?

Clearly, I'm not so literal with my word choice as you. I don't set out to attack you.

I was simply pointing out that I was not, despite your assertion otherwise, eliminating the player mindset you described. Can we leave it at that?

I said she said what I said she said was not what I said she said, she said what I said she said not what she said I said she didn't say.

If what I said what she said I said she said was not what I said she said, what she said I said she said was not what she said. But as I said, I said she said I said what I said she said I said she said I said.

I don't see what the problem is, its pretty straight forward.

That was pretty close to outright accusing her of attacking you, which is not what a friendly, peaceful person does without cause to people with whom they're conversing.

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Softcapping an Invuln is fantastic. Softcapping a Willpower is amazing. Softcapping SR is kissing your sister.

Who's got two thumbs and just betrayed his best friend? This guy!

<secretly delighted that not only does my thread get Arcanaville posts, who I may or may not have a huge geek crush on, but that this is one of them. Its beautiful. I may cry.>

To be fair, Arcana has directly attacked me in the past (in ways that have been removed due to moderation), and I've likely responded in kind, so we probably don't immediately approach each others posts on the most positive of notes in the first place.

Also, I'm not sure "said" is a word any more. I think she broke it.