Can we get a definition of casual?

I would say it is. Very few rules for *how* to play the game and what you do when you are inside it.

I would say yes. There is combat in Minecraft but even in survival mode the primary point of the game is to explore and build. Yes, there is combat and there is 'loot' but neither are really the point of the game they simply serve as the connection between exploring and building.

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

Taking a step back for a second, in my opinion games like physics puzzlers are not pure sandboxes per se. They have much more open-ended gameplay, but they still have structured goals most of the time.

I don't play MineCraft so I can't pass judgment on its gameplay, but from what I've heard of the game its close but not quite in my opinion. It has strong exploratory elements, but it does have a structured gameplay goal in partial disguise: you have to survive. You could argue that its a sandbox, just a very dangerous one, but I think most people don't treat it like a dangerous sandbox, they treat it like a game you have to continuously complete the goal of surviving in, which then gives you sandbox-like open gameplay elements to play with when you aren't trying to specifically survive.

It *looks* like its designed to provide open gameplay but with certain structural elements that make it an actual game, if a very loose one. Going back to the physic puzzler comparison, I think the difference between a true sandbox and something that offers open-ended play is that open ended gameplay games offer many options to accomplish gameplay goals, while sandboxes don't have explicitly designed goals leaving players completely free to decide what to do within them.

There are of course shades of grey, and definitions are there to be smudged by innovative game designers. In fact, I can imagine a game that highlights the very subtle weakness in my own judgment of MineCraft. Suppose there was an MMO where you made sandcastles on the beach. That's it. You can build whatever you want, but of course eventually the tide comes in and destroys it. If you build it in the right place and big enough, though, it might survive until the next day, whereupon you could repair it and continue on.

For me, the very subtle difference here is that in this hypothetical game the designer isn't designing the tide in a specific way to promote specific strategies to combat it. It isn't "gameable." On the other hand, I think the monsters in MineCraft *are* designed in a tactical non-random way by the game designer. That means they are an actual gameplay element with a purpose that overrides anything the players choose: if you don't survive them, you don't survive them. You have to metagame the monsters to eventually be able to earn the right to do whatever else you want. So maybe MineCraft is a game within a sandbox in that sense.

Well said.

Yes and no. There are several ways to interacting with Minecraft that reduce the monsters to incidental issues, and sometimes they can be completely irrelevant. Sometimes their relevance is only measured as a delay to whatever task you're doing. It's important to note that while there are folks who play in 'hardcore mode' -- you delete the world if you die -- this is completely player-enforced. Normally, death simply takes you back to the spawn point, dropping all your inventory where you died.

There's also 'peaceful', which has no monsters. The only things that can hurt you, then, are things like lava, falls, drowning, and suffocation -- and health regenerates.

So I'm not sure if it's a game within a sandbox, or a sandbox within a game, or a sandbox with a game glued to the side of it, or what. It's very hard to classify.

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Softcapping an Invuln is fantastic. Softcapping a Willpower is amazing. Softcapping SR is kissing your sister.

Sweet. You can make a lot of flour with 78 mills.

This is probably the best way to describe a "Casual" player. Casual can mean different things to different people. Just because a player is casual doesn't mean they can't have millions in INF.. all that takes is one Purple Drop and a quick trip to Wentworths or the Black Market. IO sets ir even Purple IOs.. hey it would take a while but even only playing 1 hour a day anyine could manage 5 hero or villain tips and be buying recipes etc.

A casual player could be any of the following depending on how other people look at and play the game...

Only plays a hour or two a night and not every night. RL limits the time available to play and that's all the time they have. While on they may solo, team, TF, or whatever but they just don't have unlimited time to devote to just playing COH.

Only plays on weekends. Agan RL prevents a certain player from getting on line and playing except or their days off. NOW on those days off they may be on 6, 7 or even more hours at a time doing whatever but don't look for them when the work/school week starts back up. During the time on they obviously can and would do just about anything any other player does... team, sol, etc

Compared to those of us that play every day for X number of hours all of the above could be considered CASUAL.

Don't forget the wheat. Wait. Are we talking about Farmville now? ::shudder::

The thing is survival in Minecraft is not a useful goal. If all you want to do it survive it's trivial to build yourself a small room with a torch and no windows at which point you can leave the game running forever and "survive".

Survival only becomes an issue in the context of having other goals to accomplish. As such I don't think Survival is a goal, it's an optional challenge to accomplishing some other goal. If you don't want it to be a concern you can turn enemies off.

Similarly (and referencing Samuel's response to my original answer) resource gathering is, again, a possible challenge to put between yourself and a goal (and is indeed the default setting) but you can also use the console to give yourself whatever resources you need rendering the need to gather resources moot.

You defined sandboxes as games that have no explicitly defined goals and I think Minecraft meets that requirement. The end goal of the game is whatever you define it to be (survive a particular length of time, build something, explore somewhere etc.). The other aspects of the game (survival and resource gathering) are simply challenge setting you can use to make your chosen goal harder to accomplish.

For example compare the following possible goals:
1. Build a replica of the Eiffel Tower out of iron blocks
2. Build a replica of the Eiffel Tower out of iron blocks harvested yourself
3. Build a replica of the Eiffel Tower out of iron blocks harvested yourself with enemies turned on

Now each is a possible goal you can set within the game but the later goals are harder. For goal two you need to find a LOT of iron (making an iron block requires you to harvest 9 veins of iron) so in addition to the building itself and the scaffolding required to work on it you need to spend a LOT of time mining. For goal three you need to do everything in goal two while also setting up your mining work in such a way as to avoid zombies.