So i'm assuming you guys read this
By
Aura_Familia,
Posted on: 2011-02-21 14:57 in Everything about PvP
I found "we have made some changes in the past that didn't end up the way we wanted them to." to be an incredible step forward in discussing PvP on their part...
but you can dog on them if you wish.
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yea, but steps forward were followed by steps back, specifically the "we're always fixing bugs" statement. and the "doing something else isn't acceptable" comment even though thats the route they've been taking.|
Originally Posted by Chyll
I found "we have made some changes in the past that didn't end up the way we wanted them to." to be an incredible step forward in discussing PvP on their part...
but you can dog on them if you wish. |
i'm probably just way too jaded, but for me, that statement admitting their fault would hold alot more weight if it was someone like say, posi who headed the thing, said it and not some relatively new producer.
Positron's i13 letter: We are trying to make PvP more accessible to new players, while giving experienced PvP'ers the advantage that comes with formulating tactics around the new systems we're putting in place. PvP from now on will be on our priority list. If something isn't working out, we'll be in there tweaking it and making it work, for the entire future of the product, not just Issue 13.
I guess that depends on the meaning of the word some is. Not to mention several other words and phrases.
But it was a nice dodge... like pve super reflexes nice, not pvp super reflex nice.
I'd call that a "non answer" ala "the corporate response". PvP in this game is just broke. If PvP ever gets fixed I will probably sub again, but as it stands I'm going to let my account drop at the end of the month I think and probably go back over to DCUO. The old PvP was some of the most fun I've ever had in PvP in an MMO. Would love to see it back again.
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Wow, its been a while since I got strange looks from laughing out loud in a public area.
| We always fix bugs that come up with the current PvP system... |
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That's to bad. All coh needs is another lost player, between dc and free to play champions things are getting competitive...
Here is to wishing some kind of word comes from anywhere about a rollback.
You must not be one of those jeopardy playing computers. Bugs get fixed, not a system the majority gets bugged about. Bugs, bugged big difference only the one with the (s) gets fixed.
The have not been focusing on pvp. That marketing speak response was utterly false.
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My interpretation:|
Originally Posted by Dissolution
You must not be one of those jeopardy playing computers. Bugs get fixed, not a system the majority gets bugged about. Bugs, bugged big difference only the one with the (s) gets fixed.
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"I disagree. Bugs get fixed. The system itself, while flawed, is not considered a bug as it is WAI."
If my interpretation is correct, than my reply is:
If we leave the flawed system aside, which I am doing so in both my first post and responding post, my perception of the situation is that my initial response, that the prospect of bugs in the player versus player environment getting fixed is laughable, still stands in my opinion.
Favorite Hero: Computer (Empathy/Energy Blast Defender)
Favorite Villain: Gimp Computer (Fire Control/Psionic Assault Dominator)
Actually I think we agree... "at the core". (see how I did that...)
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True, but Champions PvP is baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad. It's worse than CoH PvP. DCUO isn't bad, but just leaves a bit to be desired. It's too hammer, rock, paper, scissors. The old PvP for CoH pre I13, was some of the best PvP that I've ever seen in a modern MMO. Current PvP just feels really bland and well, boring for lack of a better word. I would say go back to Pre I13, deal with the munchkin powers like Phase Shift and Aid Self, having multiple travel powers, redo the way IO's work, and nix DR. The game should just be about having fun. One of the things that I really don't care for with modern PvP is how everything is building a character is way too much math and way too much effort. It's so complex that it just stops being fun. I want to play a game, not write a mathematical thesis. I don't think that PvP is really accessible to the casual player given some of the things that I cited that need fixing. That is one thing that I think DCUO did well. The game is simple to play (as is CoH) but also making and building a character is much more simple.
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Originally Posted by Dissolution
That's to bad. All coh needs is another lost player, between dc and free to play champions things are getting competitive...
Here is to wishing some kind of word comes from anywhere about a rollback. |
I just hope now that it is free to play they dont get a huge boost and decide to fix pvp before coh decides to roll back and tweak.
Are you under any misconception they are rolling back the god aweful changes that they made in i13? The egos in charge would never admit it was a horrible terrible change that cost them most of the pvpers in the game. Whole groups of people quit when it was still in beta seeing TS/HD. Do a search for the pvp wish list. Putz (before she left) and Col Jasmine (before she left) put in a huge effort to collect the wish list and top bugs from pvp. Of all of them I think some of the arena changes, were the only things that changed. I still remember when there was a "pvp" dev who showed up in arena a few times says "hey guys the view bots in arena are going to get perception isn't that great!" When he got laughed at he simply said "oh it was on the wish list." A list that was several issues old...and he clearly had no idea about pvp in team arena setting. And this was the pvp dev.
Historically the times the dev have ventured into an arena or pvp setting they get heckled for all the crap they either never fixed, or changes they have made which were ridiculous. One time Castle and Positron came in to AC and got lambasted so bad people got temp bans. You can think "oh well you deserve it they were making an effort." No, they just don't want to hear about how people really feel about the changes they do. How many pages on this forum have been dedicated to how crappy the i13 changes are. Screaming get rid of HD/TS - give us back i12 pvp. It all falls on deaf ears. The egos in charge will never admit they made a giant CF mistake. Case in point you will notice when he talks about pvp it turns towards GR and end game content. This has what to do with pvp exactly?
This game is dying. They put all thier money on the GR pony and it failed. Long time people are being let go...and suprised they are being let go. All they can do now is make harder and harder repetitive missions and call it end game content - reward you with incarnate powers that, really just put you at levels before ED reared it's ugly head and call it progress.
Lol, no I am under no miscoception. We can all hope, and it is my hope that they fix what a majority of players think was a mistake. Easiest starting point... roll back.
The statement "we have made some changes in the past that didn't end up the way we wanted them to" does not say what changes were made and does not state what they wanted. It is a political dodge that answers a question without actually saying anything.
He may as well just said "I'm not going to answer that". At least then he would have got some respect.
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This is the best i have read in a long long time!
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Originally Posted by Strike_Flame
....All they can do now is make harder and harder repetitive missions and call it end game content - reward you with incarnate powers that, really just put you at levels before ED reared it's ugly head and call it progress.
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@no 18
pre i13 PvP: Emp, rad/psy
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My widow that still gets knock-backed while held, even though it got fixed for everyone else over a year ago, would disagree.
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Originally Posted by Computer
"I disagree. Bugs get fixed. The system itself, while flawed, is not considered a bug as it is WAI."
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History of that:|
Originally Posted by LuxunS
My widow that still gets knock-backed while held, even though it got fixed for everyone else over a year ago, would disagree.
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* I13 (December 2, 2008): Everyone with toggle mez/KB prot gets KB'd when mezzed, which leaves 90% of melee characters and anyone with Acro who doesn't have extra KB protection essentially broken. Bug reports filed.
* I16 (September 15, 2009 - 9 months later): Toggle mez/KB prot bug is fixed... except for Kheld Dwarf forms and Widows/Forts.
* I18 (August 16, 2010 - 11 months after I16 and 20 months after I13): Patch note published about fixing Widow/Fort mez/KB bug. Kheld Dwarf forms still broken. Issue goes live and it's discovered the bug isn't actually fixed.
* Now (Feb 25, 2011 - 6 months after I18 and 26+ months after I13): Both ATs are still broken.
If anything this should be an example of the rather poor track record when it comes to fixing PvP bugs, even though those bugs are game-breaking for entire archetypes. But of course, if there's an exploit related to PvP or rewards are dropping "too much," you can be damn sure something like that will be fixed quickly and quietly.
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Poop.
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Hehe, I hope they do. Might just be the incentive Coh developers need
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Originally Posted by Dissolution
I just hope now that it is free to play they dont get a huge boost and decide to fix pvp before coh decides to roll back and tweak.
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Half empty... Half full.
Good point.
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signed.
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Originally Posted by Dissolution
like pve super reflexes nice, not pvp super reflex nice.
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This being the Nate brikholz interview
Nate: We always fix bugs that come up with the current PvP system, and a couple of years ago we made it possible to balance PvP separately from PvE. The challenge is that it is very difficult to balance PvP in a game with over a thousand powers in hundreds of potential combinations, and we have made some changes in the past that didn't end up the way we wanted them to. "Just doing something else" isn't going to make anyone happy, least of all us. The community has given us great PVP feedback over the years and we have had some sound ideas internally, but we also want to find the right solution.
We get a lot of feedback about many aspects of the game from our current players as well as our former players. We have addressed a great number of player requests with Going Rogue, Issue 19, and Issue 20 by adding new zones and significant storylines, adding alignment switching, merging markets, and crafting a real endgame.
Positron's i13 letter: We are trying to make PvP more accessible to new players, while giving experienced PvP'ers the advantage that comes with formulating tactics around the new systems we're putting in place. PvP from now on will be on our priority list. If something isn't working out, we'll be in there tweaking it and making it work, for the entire future of the product, not just Issue 13.