wide area web grenade vs web envelope
By
Bosstone,
Posted on: 2011-02-19 12:17 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
I wish I knew. Makes no sense at all. I'd be taking Web Envelope if it didn't cause redraw. 10 foot radius on a primary power, with an even longer recharge? Kinda dumb.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
|
Wow, thats just odd. Shouldnt it be the other way around?
"I have ridden the mighty moon worm!"
-Al Gore
Fiery Aura is only good for farming, I'm cereal
@Caucasiafro
Quote:
You are leaving out something important.|
Originally Posted by Lucky666
wide area web grenade, primary power for an arachnos soldier crab/bane.
- recharge 30 seconds - duration 20.12 seconds - radius 10 feet web envelope, patron power pool for arachnos soldier crab/bane - recharge 20 seconds - duration 20.12 seconds - radius 15 feet Just curious why the patron power is better then a primary power? Anyone know. |
How much -recharge does each do.
The Bane/Soldier/huntsman version is much more powerful in that respect.
Also costs, animation times should be taken into consideration.
Next time include all the information, and you will see that WAWG is superior.
When something good happens to me, I can never enjoy it....
I am always too busy looking for the inevitable punchline...
BEHOLD THE POWER OF CHEESE!
Well, the Wide Area Web Grenade does at least have -KB and a more powerful slow. In general I suspect that the patron web has a larger area and faster recharge because it's based on Controller AoE immobilizes so it has similar stats but a longer recharge. Also, it's not AT specific... several ATs get Web Envelope so it wasn't balanced specifically against Wide Area Web Grenade.
Essentially, Web Envelope is a longer-recharge version of a Controller power with a "web" feel to make it more Arachnos-y. WAWG is a light control power on a non-control based AT so it's weaker than other AoE immobilizes, just like (for instance) the holds in a Blaster's Ice Blast are shorter duration than patron / APP holds. As for the recharge on Envelope being so fast, it's probably because it's based on control set AoE immobilizes which are very fast recharging powers normally... even with the recharge increased it still ends up reasonably low.
Cascade, level 50 Blaster (NRG/NRG since before it was cool)
Mechmeister, level 50 Bots / Traps MM
FAR too many non-50 alts to name
[u]Arcs[u]
The Scavenger Hunt: 187076
The Instant Lair Delivery Service: 206636
All PPP AoE Immobs all have a 20s recharge, regardless of other effects, so when the brute PPPs were copied and tweaked for SoAs, that wasn't altered. And since WAWG is placed in a set with Call Reinforcements (which summons two pets which both have similar AoE Immobs), WAWG had to be balanced with those pets in mind. PPPs aren't balanced around any specific ability, whereas powers within a powerset are.
In other words, the reason Web Envelope is better than Wide Area Web Grenade is the same reason Dominate (Defender Psychic Mastery) is demonstratively better, in every regard, than Petrifying Gaze (Defender Dark Miasma), and arguably better than Ice Arrow (Defender Trick Arrow). Tertiary powers and pools aren't balanced primarily against any primary or secondary powers or powersets, they're balanced against each other, and primary/secondary powers aren't balanced against APP/PPP powers, they're balanced against the other powers in their powersets.
Quote:
Maybe that is excactly the reason why he was asking?
|
Originally Posted by Test_Rat
You are leaving out something important.
How much -recharge does each do. The Bane/Soldier/huntsman version is much more powerful in that respect. Also costs, animation times should be taken into consideration. Next time include all the information, and you will see that WAWG is superior. |
Originally Posted by Megajoule
We're being invaded. Again. This time, instead of aliens, zombies, or eyeballs with teeth, it's the marching band.
WAWG also prevents knockback, which also amplifies the usefulness of Frag Grenade x10
Quote:
That synergy right there is why I use it on my crab build.
|
Originally Posted by Silverado
WAWG also prevents knockback, which also amplifies the usefulness of Frag Grenade x10
|
Web Envelope also costs significantly more endurance. WAWG costs 7.28 base, Web Envelope costs 12.74 base.
I had to make this choice just recently on my Crab, but I'm starting to think I picked the wrong way. I had thought Web Envelope would be the better choice due to the larger radius, but when I use WAWG it's because I want -KB. The problem is I need Web Envelope to count as one of my PPP picks so that I can get to Summon Blaster.
Time to go review the planned build...
De minimis non curat Lex Luthor.
I tend to go with the epic aoe over the wawg simply to gain access to further patron powers. I perhaps would take a different tactic if I went for say, GW, but for Mako, I'm not a fan of trow sharks, practically speaking.
Global = Hedgefund (or some derivation thereof)
I always take WAWG. Web nade, Venom nade, Frag, Heavy Burst. Dead, daed mob 
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
 |
wide area web grenade, primary power for an arachnos soldier crab/bane.
- recharge 30 seconds
- duration 20.12 seconds
- radius 10 feet
web envelope, patron power pool for arachnos soldier crab/bane
- recharge 20 seconds
- duration 20.12 seconds
- radius 15 feet
Just curious why the patron power is better then a primary power? Anyone know.