Pointless Padding or legitimate strategy?
By
Antigonus,
Posted on: 2011-02-02 14:42 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
I wish there was more time gating going on, or at least, in a slightly different manner from what they are doing now.
If I could do one thing, I'd make the WST/Notice of the Well a once-a-week gobal per account. Meaning, you pick the character you want advance for that week.
Incarnates are supposed to be special. I don't think every single character should be an Incarnate. Someone having a stable of Incarnates should be very, very difficult and focusing on growing one character should be encouraged above that.
I don't think the Incarnate system should discriminate against soloists vs people who like to team, but it should be a considerable accomplishment to have an Incarnate and the decision to have one of your 50's undertake the Incarnate path shouldn't be taken lightly.
.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
I wish there was more time gating going on, or at least, in a slightly different manner from what they are doing now.
If I could do one thing, I'd make the WST/Notice of the Well a once-a-week gobal per account. Meaning, you pick the character you want advance for that week. Incarnates are supposed to be special. I don't think every single character should be an Incarnate. Someone having a stable of Incarnates should be very, very difficult and focusing on growing one character should be encouraged above that. I don't think the Incarnate system should discriminate against soloists vs people who like to team, but it should be a considerable accomplishment to have an Incarnate and the decision to have one of your 50's undertake the Incarnate path shouldn't be taken lightly. . |
I wouldn't have a problem with really really hard content to unlock incarnate slots/power but we both know this isn't the case. Time=/difficulty. This is what I hate and like others I hope it's just a stopgap fix till I20 comes out.
Quote:
I guess "early" is debatable since the alpha slot was originally supposed to be included in GR (i18) but got delayed. Then i19 got half an alpha slot until i19.5. To me it appears like they're playing catch up to their original feature release schedule that was pushed back.|
Originally Posted by Scarlet Shocker
We get given extra content early and the Devs get slated for "padding"?
|
Or maybe i've grown to become a glass half empty person, eh.
But to the OP, personally, yes it is padding but no it's not pointless. I guess the devs saw a bunch of people who were farming TFs to have stockpiled excessive amounts of shards so if they made the upper tiers to be gotten like the lower tiers, there would be numerous incarnates with very rares almost immediately.
I wouldn't be surprised if they purposely held back the upper tiers so they can datamine what people do with the shards first.
Or maybe on top of glass half empty, i've also become jaded and paranoid.
Quote:
Woah now, I didn't say anything about really really hard content. Wanting multiple Incarnates being harder for people to have doesn't automatically translate to harder content. Getting tons of badges (some people view as an accomplishment) may not always involve difficult tasks but it is "hard" in that its time consuming. Thus, most people who care have one "badge character" they go to the trouble for.|
Originally Posted by Lucky666
I wouldn't have a problem with really really hard content to unlock incarnate slots/power but we both know this isn't the case. Time=/difficulty. This is what I hate and like others I hope it's just a stopgap fix till I20 comes out.
|
I think having an Incarnate should involve more than simply running the Trial or WST enough times on each of your multiple 50's.
Years ago, I wished Incarnates would be implemented as a EAT that you had to unlock and could only have one of. I don't think there should be hundreds of Incarnates running around Atlas Park at any given time. I don't think vast numbers of gag-characters and ERP toons should be Incarnates.
I think the current overall effort involved to get one Incarnate is mostly fine, but it should be much "harder" (ie not encouraging or maybe even discouraging) to have many Incarnates, especially in such a short time.
.
Quote:
This is something they seem to be doing a lot recently. And I have to agree, it just seems like an artificial speed limit on things.|
Originally Posted by Dr_Mechano
I get you don't want people who have horded enough Shards to just blitz through the system and go "Done! What's next?" within 2-3 days of the Issue coming out and to keep people running the Weekly Strike Target but...I can't help but feel as if the time sink aspect of it is just that little too obvious.
|
Like only being able to switch sides once every 2 days. Maybe I wanna blitz all 10 missions and switch sides every day.... And if the Hero\Villain Merit thing is the problem they could just make it a 48 hour cool down for the reward and let everyone else move more quickly if they want.
The Incarnate rewards in general, since many of them require multiple of the same components, IE Grai Matter or Ancient Nictus Fragment, but only allow you to get one every 20 hours...
It's just padding, for what ever reason the developers or the powers that be have decided that even should we want to slog through how ever many hours of content in a day to get our incarnate rewards, we should have to wait a minimum of what ever amount of time to get it.
I personally am not crazy about it, but so it goes.
"Where does he get those wonderful toys?" - The Joker
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
I don't think the Very Rares are worth it.
Looking at the numbers for example, it looks to me the biggest leap in power will be going from Uncommon to Rare simply because of the level shift. In the case of a character I decked out with an Rare Musculature, they'll only gain maybe 4-5% more damage moving up to a Very Rare, if my numbers are right. Unless the Very Rares are sporting a +2 Level Shift (un-freakin' likely) it seems very anticlimactic considering how much more the Very Rares require. IMO, they're just not worth it unless the Very Rares ignored ED completely or granted an additional level shift or something. |
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by UberRod
Given that the very rare boosts ignore 2/3 of ED while rare ignore 1/2 it seems worth it to me. You could be looking at perma Hasten among other things. My DM/Regen already has a 5 second gap in Dull Pain, and he's only got the uncommon Spiritual boost. With rare and very rare, Dull Pain will be perma easily.
I had expected the very rare to give a +2 level shift. But given that there are 10 total slots coming out that seems excessive especially if all of them gave level shifts. |
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
They most likely don't. Arcanaville pointed out how unlikely that would be, and in this case I'm inclined to agree.
IMO, most likely we'll get another Shift with the Omega slot and that'll be it. |
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by reiella
Doubting that they'll all give a level shift myself, but that's just assumption. I bought into the whole First Mission has level 50 AVs conning yellow thing we're going to look at a +5 total.
|
Rare or Very Rare apply one (1) level shift only, that is Rare makes you 50+1 and Very Rare also makes you 50+1.
I am expecting one level shift per Incarnate slot introduced. You're supposed to be an Incarnate, able to wipe the floor with 16 AVs at the same time, not an amoeba flailing around.
In regards to the OP, welcome to the wonderful world of gated content: from the people who brought you 1 AMerit per 2 days (or 20 hrs) and such things as 1 common Incarnate component per 20 hrs (I'm looking at you G'rai Matter) comes the one Very Rare Incarnate Alpha Slot™ per month!!! Rejoice! (all sales final, no warranty supplied, merchandise as is).
You'll learn to like it.
Rabbits & Hares:Blue (Mind/Emp Controller)Maroon (Rad/Thermal Corruptor)and one of each AT all at 50
MA Arcs: Apples of Contention - 3184; Zen & Relaxation - 35392; Tears of Leviathan - 121733 | All posts are rated "R" for "R-r-rrrrr, baby!"|Now, and this is very important... do you want a hug? COH Faces @Blue Rabbit
I think you're wrong. I don't think we're going to get 10 level shifts. There's lots of evidence we're not going to get one with every slot.
We might be wrong, but I think it makes more sense to make the guesses suggested by the greater weight of evidence. Having the 10 incarnate slots literally translate into +10 effective levels has never been suggested by the devs except by the mere fact that there are 10 slots. Concluding that each slot is +1 level, no matter how simple a conclusion it may seem, is a leap of logic that players made on their own.
Edit: It should be pointed out that our future self in the Incarnate into arc is not mopping the floor with AVs because of level shifts. They're doing it because of unlocked slots that represent fundamental invincibility and massive destructive addition to their attacks. They're "only" +4 to the AVs (assuming you play it on +0 level setting).
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Quote:
Unless you are after a few of the secondary stat boosts that pool together in some of the very rares. Support characters with a wide range of buffs, debuffs, etc. will find those quite useful. For example one of the top tier musculature enhancements would be great for a dark/electric defender, getting a boost to BOTH to hit debuff and endurance effects.
|
Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
I don't think the Very Rares are worth it.
Looking at the numbers for example, it looks to me the biggest leap in power will be going from Uncommon to Rare simply because of the level shift. In the case of a character I decked out with an Rare Musculature, they'll only gain maybe 4-5% more damage moving up to a Very Rare, if my numbers are right. Unless the Very Rares are sporting a +2 Level Shift (un-freakin' likely) it seems very anticlimactic considering how much more the Very Rares require. IMO, they're just not worth it unless the Very Rares ignored ED completely or granted an additional level shift or something. . |
Quote:
Very true. My Fortunata for example can benefit greatly from Nerve getting Acc, Defense, Hold and Confuse duration. Defense will get her in the 60% range and 33% added to an AoE confuse that lasts a long time already is a lot. I also use single target holds a lot (AoE hold duration not long enough to be worth the trouble) so bang another bonus.|
Originally Posted by SilverAgeFan
Unless you are after a few of the secondary stat boosts that pool together in some of the very rares. Support characters with a wide range of buffs, debuffs, etc. will find those quite useful. For example one of the top tier musculature enhancements would be great for a dark/electric defender, getting a boost to BOTH to hit debuff and endurance effects.
|
A Fire Tank may not benefit from all the bonuses but some ATs rock those extra bonuses. I assume that is why there are 2 top tier bonuses 1 with larger bonuses to 2 primary powers and 1 with smaller bonuses to a lot of powers.
What I am surprised by is that no one is mentioning that they will want to get MULTIPLE Alpha slots for 1 character so they can swap them out. The time frame for that is really large. Also not sure why anyone fights anything but Rikti anymore unless they have so many merts they can never spend them. 1 shard a day for 150 merits means ship raids are better than ever.
----------------------------
You can't please everyone, so lets concentrate on me.
Quote:
Legitimate strategy, especially if you have a life, can't run the WST four times a day, and hope to find a team to run it when you're on at some weird time without having to spend 45 minutes cobbling together a team.| Pointless Padding or legitimate strategy? |
--NT
They all laughed at me when I said I wanted to be a comedian.
But I showed them, and nobody's laughing at me now!
If I became a red name, I would be all "and what would you mere mortals like to entertain me with today, mu hu ha ha ha!" ~Arcanaville
Quote:
All just various personal goals. New AVs that maybe I can solo now that I couldn't before(I'm looking at you Lord Recluse, Sister Psyche, and especially Silver Mantis).|
Originally Posted by CapnBarcode
Such as... ? I really have no clue what content you could be talking about that would be gated by the Very Rare Alpha, unless it's something like trying to solo the Apex TF. (Which would be awesome, so GL!)
|
A buddy and I want to duo the RSF with our Scrappers, and we just don't quite have enough to get past Statesman's unstoppable. Maybe now we will. Because of the extra recharge I will be able get the top attack chain for my scrapper without sacrificing any defense or regen. That plus the level shift should have a significant impact on my DPS.
Little things like that. Nothing that has to do with new content, just stuff that I can't do now, that I might be able to do when I finish the alpha slot. Maybe I'll fail then too, but I can live with that. Unless it's Silver Mantis, I don't care what it takes, I will beat her.
At this point, that is what I'm primarily interested in doing.
I don't mind waiting a week, I can handle that. But artificially making the wait a month is just irritating.
So the general forum consensus seems to be 50% one way and 50% the other (roughly).
As I said, I've said my piece, personally find having to wait a month annoying but...eh...it's not like we're going to convince the devs otherwise at this point in time since Issue 20 is only 2-3 months or so away (by my reckoning).
Honestly I'm quite glad at the idea of X.5 issues, smaller issues, inbetween regular ones which means you don't have a large gap of 4-5 months inbetween Issues where you get nothing and personally would like them to do it more often.
My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."