greatest mob handling build?
By
Auroxis,
Posted on: 2011-01-26 19:09 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
How large is giant? I have a scrapper that aggroes a spawn, then heads into the next spawn and starts killing. I am then fed a consistent supply of mobs that attack me one by one cheesy Kung Fu style.
Tankers are great at this as well, as are brutes. However, these days everyone and thier sister is softcaped, so controllers may fair well under these conditions, and unsurprisingly doms are quite effective as well.
For really huge groups, I'd go with a Bots/Traps MM. No matter how tough your Scrapper or Brute is, he can only hold aggro on 16 targets or so. But with pets each pet can aggro 16, so you can potentially have dozens of enemies rounded up eating laser and missile barrages. 
Cascade, level 50 Blaster (NRG/NRG since before it was cool)
Mechmeister, level 50 Bots / Traps MM
FAR too many non-50 alts to name
[u]Arcs[u]
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Quote:
Each wave of attacks can only hit a cap of 16 targets regardless.
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Originally Posted by StrykerX
For really huge groups, I'd go with a Bots/Traps MM. No matter how tough your Scrapper or Brute is, he can only hold aggro on 16 targets or so. But with pets each pet can aggro 16, so you can potentially have dozens of enemies rounded up eating laser and missile barrages.
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There is a pseudo-exception for this rule, in the rain powers(Rain of Fire, Ice Storm, Blizzard). Once a target dies it immediately attacks another instead, if possible.|
Originally Posted by Signpost
Each wave of attacks can only hit a cap of 16 targets regardless.
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Take a look at this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsrmHbGFAB8
I have never seen a huge mob "handled" so well, particularly at the 6 minute mark of that video.
Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
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Well, that's technically because each tick is an individual attack (this is why each tick has it's own chance of scourging). But each wave of ticks will only hit 16 targets max. All patch powers work the same way, and I THINK they may change target before killing too (hence spreading debuffs and effects over more targets), though don't quote me on it.
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Originally Posted by Auroxis
There is a pseudo-exception for this rule, in the rain powers(Rain of Fire, Ice Storm, Blizzard). Once a target dies it immediately attacks another instead, if possible.
Take a look at this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsrmHbGFAB8 I have never seen a huge mob "handled" so well, particularly at the 6 minute mark of that video. |
For dealing with masses of mobs: Mind/Psy dom. 4 mass mez powers with 3 quickish ST ones to boot. Fully saturated drain psyche will give you 1,750%regen. If you get enough recharge, the AoE mezzes are up every 10-30 seconds and can lock down bosses instantly, while drain psyche never goes down. (If given targets)
For destroying mobs: Crab spider, using rifle and crab ranged AoE, particularly with the fighting pool as backup. Even on SO's it can get close to being softcapped, it has armor to just about all damage types, its own dull pain, and up to 7 AoE's. The max targets will not ding you much, and you can go through them like butter. Seriously, it can have an AoE attack chain. Did I mention you can also have a bunch of pets out as well, and one of your AoE's is also a mass -res debuff? And double stacked assault for +30% damage at all times, besides the +50% from aim?
Fire/Dark corrs if properly built are very good at large groups.
Let's take farming the wall in Cimmoria - If you know how the rules of aggro work you can pull 3 groups effectively fighting nearly 30 Romans at once.
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I'll second this -- my Crab melts large groups (AoE-focused w/perma-Hasten and all three tiers of pets permanent, too). Haven't gotten around to doing any Incarnate stuff with him yet, unfortunately; I'm still waffling a bit on where I want to take his Alpha Slot.
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Originally Posted by Seldom
For destroying mobs: Crab spider, using rifle and crab ranged AoE, particularly with the fighting pool as backup. Even on SO's it can get close to being softcapped, it has armor to just about all damage types, its own dull pain, and up to 7 AoE's. The max targets will not ding you much, and you can go through them like butter. Seriously, it can have an AoE attack chain. Did I mention you can also have a bunch of pets out as well, and one of your AoE's is also a mass -res debuff? And double stacked assault for +30% damage at all times, besides the +50% from aim?
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I dont really see bots being able to survive that for very long, even though they are likely soft capped.
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Originally Posted by StrykerX
For really huge groups, I'd go with a Bots/Traps MM. No matter how tough your Scrapper or Brute is, he can only hold aggro on 16 targets or so. But with pets each pet can aggro 16, so you can potentially have dozens of enemies rounded up eating laser and missile barrages.
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"I have ridden the mighty moon worm!"
-Al Gore
Fiery Aura is only good for farming, I'm cereal
@Caucasiafro
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Believe me, they can. Especially if the MM is smart enough to keep everything together.|
Originally Posted by ultrawatt
I dont really see bots being able to survive that for very long, even though they are likely soft capped.
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To the OP, I'd actually suggest a MFing Warshade.
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Fire/Kin Controller
Plant/Kin Controller
Fire/Rad Controller
Fire/Psi Dominator
Quote:
Yes, but each pet isn't necessarily going to hit the same 16 targets as the other pets. Like a rain power, massed pet fire can end up spreading damage across more targets than any single attack and therefore aggro more in total (each pet has its own aggro list I believe).|
Originally Posted by Signpost
Each wave of attacks can only hit a cap of 16 targets regardless.
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Some builds can mow down 16 targets at a time faster, but I'm pretty sure nothing can engage more targets at a time than a MM... and if you are wanting to fight huge hordes that's something to consider.
Cascade, level 50 Blaster (NRG/NRG since before it was cool)
Mechmeister, level 50 Bots / Traps MM
FAR too many non-50 alts to name
[u]Arcs[u]
The Scavenger Hunt: 187076
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Quote:
My point is no matter how many groups you engage, you are still going to kill as fast whether you engage 100 mobs (ala ambush farm map) or just 30. (and possibly slower because of regen effects from not focus-killing mobs.)
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Originally Posted by StrykerX
Yes, but each pet isn't necessarily going to hit the same 16 targets as the other pets. Like a rain power, massed pet fire can end up spreading damage across more targets than any single attack and therefore aggro more in total (each pet has its own aggro list I believe).
Some builds can mow down 16 targets at a time faster, but I'm pretty sure nothing can engage more targets at a time than a MM... and if you are wanting to fight huge hordes that's something to consider. |
wow lot of options, what if i were to take controllers/dominators out of the equation, also making a bot MM's bots survive in lets say an AE farm how would you go about doing that it seems pretty unlikely to me although i've never actually tried enh.ing a MM before
Bots/Traps can have softcapped defences on the Battle Drones and Assault Bot with SOs alone. And that's softcapped to everything (except Psi). Should hold up pretty well.
It's a tricky question depending on what you really want to do. Do you want to solo 8 man spawns of middling difficulty mobs? For dealing with something like +2/x8 setting you're probably looking at an AOE heavy scrapper; something like an Elec/Shield, Spine/Dark, Fire/Shield or the like.
Do you want to MANAGE the aggro of 8 man spawns on a team? You're looking at a tanker hands down, and one with a good taunt aura. If you want to manage aggro for 8 man teams running the most difficult things in the game then you want a really sturdy tanker; Invuln is, in my admittedly somewhat biased opinion, the best all around choice. Stone is the toughest tanker but it's loaded down with penalties. Shield, Electric, Fire and Dark offer more damage but absent considerable IO bonuses they'll be weaker that Invuln. They'll do the job in competent hands but they won't be as durable... again absent massive IO investment. Willpower can be quite durable, but it almost completely lacks an aggro aura making it a poor choice for this.
Do you just want to mow down large groups of really easy mobs? There's several Controller builds that do this well... the infamous Fire/Kin being perhaps the most popular example.
Do you want to be part of a team steamrolling everything in your path? It's very hard to beat a group of Fire/Rad controllers at this.
I'm not as familiar with redside AT's so I won't comment on them other than to say that Brutes are fairly interchangeable with Scrappers and Dominators being a cross between a Controller and a Blaster are capable of some quite amazing things.
COH has just been murdered by NCSoft. http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes
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If you are just farming hordes of +0 mobs for tickets and inf then a Bots/Traps MM can certainly do the job. You can softcap all of the bots except the Protectors to all types but Psi, and softcap yourself to Ranged and AoE. That lets you use Provoke + Bodyguard to keep some aggro on you, which is great for AVs and AoE users. Of course in MA you can customize the enemies to exclude AoE and Psi users so you shouldn't really need Provoke. Just make sure Force Field Generator and your Protector Bots are slotted up for defense, take Maneuvers, and slot a 5% defense aura IO in a pet. Instant SR level defense for the bots. Then it's just a matter of getting a bunch of recharge to drop Acid Mortars and Poison Traps quicker and taking Aid Other to touch up any damaged bots.|
Originally Posted by Nighthawx
wow lot of options, what if i were to take controllers/dominators out of the equation, also making a bot MM's bots survive in lets say an AE farm how would you go about doing that it seems pretty unlikely to me although i've never actually tried enh.ing a MM before
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Though honestly the best AE farmers are generally Brutes, Controllers, or maybe Doms. SS/Shield Brutes are absolutely, well... brutal when it comes to mass AoE damage and Fire/Kins can mow down spawns so fast their imps barely have time to attack. Both need a lot of recharge to be at their best though... Bots/Traps can farm +0/x8 with SOs. (They can also kill AVs and even some GMs with only SOs... they are just that tough.)
Cascade, level 50 Blaster (NRG/NRG since before it was cool)
Mechmeister, level 50 Bots / Traps MM
FAR too many non-50 alts to name
[u]Arcs[u]
The Scavenger Hunt: 187076
The Instant Lair Delivery Service: 206636
Quote:
They're still alright for easy mass-mob "farming"... not as good as they once were (since before the pet recharge change the Assault Bot's Burn Patch Missiles could be made to be up every mob), but still respectable. The standard tactic of "apply elec fences to a mob from range and then run in and toebomb them whilst pets attack the clustered group with burn missiles and laser AoEs" still works just fine: at the softcap + decent resists it's rare for you to receive noticable damage, and the Protector bots can be kept on defensive/follow for extra protection without overly impacting AoE DPS.|
Originally Posted by StrykerX
Bots/Traps can farm +0/x8 with SOs. (They can also kill AVs and even some GMs with only SOs... they are just that tough.)
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Unfortunately the combo's AV/GM soloing effectiveness has been severely hampered ever since the Pet AI borked after 'Going Rogue' came out. With the AI changes it is now extremely difficult to keep pets out of a mob's PBAoE range.
In the past you could use Defensive/Goto to keep your pets a short distance away from you (just out of PBAoE range, but still within range of Bodyguard and Triage Beacon) whilst you taunted the mob and laid down your Placeable traps - with you in melee range of the mob, but making it face away from your pets so that they aren't caught by any cones.
Currently with the suicidal "must melee the foe even if I don't have any melee attacks" AI, at best your pets will keep running to and from Melee range as they decide to run in and you order them to return to the "safe area" - meaning that their DPS is severely impacted and it is also very likely for them to die off due to any PBAoE "splash damage" - usually the Protector Bots are the first to drop as they can't quite achieve softcapped defence.
Most GMs and a fair number of AVs have large-damage PBAoE attacks. The few that only use Cone attacks and ST attacks are still manageable, but for the rest you are now reduced to a single strategy - let your pets melee them, whilst you immob them from range with webnades - dropping Acid Mortars and trying to keep the foe taunted, only running into melee in order to drop 'poison trap' to cut their regen. This method reduces the amount of PBAoE they hit your pets with, but drops your effective damage output as you can no longer toebomb them with tripmines and it's trickier to keep your acid mortar from being destroyed too early and also keep both yourself and your pets permanently in range of a triage beacon. If you're up against a GM that has a large amount of immobilise protection, or something with a damage aura, then you're basically out of luck.
It says a lot that my GM-neuterer of choice USED to be my Bot/Traps MM, and has since changed to my Earth/Thermal Controller (usually paired with my second account's Demon/FF MM: negated regen + large resistance debuffs + a Resistance/Defence capped Stoney tanking + softcapped Demons + PBAoE heals to keep everything topped up makes for some insanely fast GM dual-boxing fun...)
If only the darn Bot/Trap's pets would just stay where you put them...
My elec/psi/ice dom doesn't even have to mez mobs on a farm or in most general playing situations. But on a goodtight grouping of mobs I can hit 133 hpsecond plus capped recovery, 1606 hp with hoarfrost and sleet and ice storm up every mob and drain psyche about every 5 secondseconds. Now throw in conductive aura and everything is knocked doewn by the rain powers and end drained. Its really quite powerful. Oh yeah and I'm softcapped to sm lethal. U would really enjoy that toon.
The last post I made was made on my phone. Now that I'm on my computer I'll make my case a little better for Elec/Psi/Ice Dominator.
At level 50 with a Radial Spiritual Alpha equipped I am able to accomplish near perma Hoarfrost. With only the Task Force Commander accolade (I cannot say whether this is true or not w/o that one accolade) the toon is at HP Cap almost always. Drain Psyche combined with the extra HP from HF and the added regen, albeit minor, from Conductive Aura can really add up with Inherent Fitness and set bonuses. As I stated before, I cap out at 133 hp/second regen often, but in a non-farming situation it's usually between 70 and 110. With +defense set bonuses, Tough, Weave, Maneuvers, Stealth and most importantly Ice Shield I have softcapped Smashing/Lethal defense.
Control on a Dom is at least twice as good as it is on a Controller. With PermaDom you will have mezzes that can work on most bosses in one shot. That means that Targeted AOE hold just got the whole mob (with the hit check of course). Also you've got Mez protection which just makes it less of a hassle to play IMO over a Controller without perma Indomitable Will. Electric has many great powers, including the only useful AOE sleep power in the game beyond the initial strike. One of my favorite toys of Electric Control is Synaptic Overload slotted with the Contagious Confusion proc from Coercive Persuasion. It's so fun to see it confuse an AV (with triangles down of course) in essentially one shot. It hits the AV first, bounces to another enemy, then BACK to the AV to confuse it. You've got the basic ST and AOE holds and immobilizes, but they all do -end. Speaking of -end, how about Conductive Aura, eh? The power just sucks the life right out of the competition. Oh yeah, Gremlins are pretty squishy, but take them anyway. Why not? there's not a whole lot better out there considering your attack chain will be full anyway.
Now the damage of Psi is kind of hit or miss. You will do plenty of damage to anything below an AV. You are not gimped against an AV, but something like /Fire would be a little better. Sleet and Ice Storm were a blessing from the Devs for Doms. You rally have to play it to experience how fun it is to have an attack chain of Chain Fences, Drain Psyche, Sleet, Ice Storm, Psychic Shockwave...repeat. Most everything but the bosses are dead by now on even level or plus one. Plus 2 may have some straggling lieutenants. And then you and the Grems finish off the bosses with you Single Targets and go on your merry way to the next mob of Endurance drained baddies.
Here's my build!
Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.91
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
working pd with ice: Level 50 Magic Dominator
Primary Power Set: Electric Control
Secondary Power Set: Psionic Assault
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Concealment
Ancillary Pool: Ice Mastery
Villain Profile:
Level 1: Tesla Cage -- UbrkCons-Dam%(A), UbrkCons-EndRdx/Hold(7), UbrkCons-Acc/Rchg(7), UbrkCons-Acc/Hold/Rchg(9), UbrkCons-Hold/Rchg(9)
Level 1: Psionic Dart -- Apoc-Dam%(A), Apoc-Dmg/EndRdx(3), Apoc-Acc/Rchg(3), Apoc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(5), Apoc-Dmg/Rchg(5)
Level 2: Chain Fences -- GravAnch-Hold%(A), GravAnch-Immob/EndRdx(11), GravAnch-Acc/Rchg(11), GravAnch-Acc/Immob/Rchg(13), GravAnch-Immob/Rchg(13)
Level 4: Mind Probe -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(17), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(17), KntkC'bat-Knock%(36)
Level 6: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(36)
Level 8: Conductive Aura -- P'Shift-End%(A), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(37), P'Shift-EndMod(37), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(37)
Level 10: Super Speed -- Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(A), Zephyr-ResKB(40)
Level 12: Static Field -- FtnHyp-Plct%(A), FtnHyp-Sleep/EndRdx(42), FtnHyp-Acc/Rchg(43), FtnHyp-Acc/Sleep/Rchg(43), FtnHyp-Sleep/Rchg(43)
Level 14: Maneuvers -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(15), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(15)
Level 16: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 18: Paralyzing Blast -- BasGaze-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(A), BasGaze-Acc/Hold(19), BasGaze-Acc/Rchg(19), BasGaze-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(36)
Level 20: Drain Psyche -- Dct'dW-Rchg(A), Dct'dW-Heal(21), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(21), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(23), Dct'dW-EndRdx/Rchg(23), Efficacy-Acc/Rchg(34)
Level 22: Vengeance -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 24: Boxing -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(25), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(25), KntkC'bat-Knock%(34)
Level 26: Synaptic Overload -- CoPers-Conf%(A), CoPers-Conf/EndRdx(27), CoPers-Acc/Rchg(27), CoPers-Acc/Conf/Rchg(31), CoPers-Conf/Rchg(34)
Level 28: Tough -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/EndRdx(A), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(29), S'fstPrt-ResKB(29)
Level 30: Weave -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(31), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(31)
Level 32: Gremlins -- ExRmnt-+Res(Pets)(A), ExRmnt-Acc/Dmg(33), ExRmnt-Dmg/EndRdx(33), ExRmnt-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33)
Level 35: Stealth -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 38: Psychic Shockwave -- Oblit-%Dam(A), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(39), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(39), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(40), Oblit-Dmg(40)
Level 41: Sleet -- Achilles-ResDeb%(A), AnWeak-DefDeb/EndRdx/Rchg(42), AnWeak-Acc/Rchg(42)
Level 44: Frozen Armor -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(45), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(45)
Level 47: Ice Storm -- Posi-Dam%(A), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(48), Posi-Dmg/Rng(48), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(48), Posi-Acc/Dmg(50)
Level 49: Hoarfrost -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(50)
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Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- ULeap-Stlth(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Domination
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(46), Numna-Heal(50)
Level 2: Stamina -- P'Shift-End%(A), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(45), P'Shift-EndMod(46), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(46)
blood i think the link is broken, wont lemme upload it to mids
I think there is something wrong with this current version of mids. I tried opening the link and it downloads fine but doesn't open. It has worked previously though, I tested the link when I posted it. Any suggestions?
Also I imported set names and pretty much explained why I did what I did for everything, you could just add it in there manually real quick.
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I can second this one. My Fire/Dark Corr seems to just mow down everything in front of it. Never seen nor had such a damage build when you count in the resist debuffs. As for aggro, like Infernus said, just know the rules of it and you can use anything to aggro as much as you can take. |
Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades
Fire/Dark corrs if properly built are very good at large groups.
Let's take farming the wall in Cimmoria - If you know how the rules of aggro work you can pull 3 groups effectively fighting nearly 30 Romans at once. |
Darkest Night/Tar Patch/Rain of Fire/Fireball....next group. I lucked into him, by building a concept actually.
i've been wondering which AT/PS would be best for taking on giant mobs of enemies. for archetypes (AT for short) im sure its either brute, scrapper or tanker although Powerset seems a little more tricky.