Potential Polearm Powerset?

I know people have asked time and agian for staffs to be a powerset, and while I think that would be awesome we also have to think about Shield Defense users. Which is where this idea crops up; Polearms. Bladed/pointy Polearms such as spears, nagatas, halaberds, pikes ect, ect, ect. It could be used by all melee sets, as well as Shield Defense users.

On non-shield users it would have a flashy martial arts feel with the weapon being spun about before striking. WITH Shield Defense, however, the character fights more like a Spartan; much more conservative strikes, leading with the shield then striking with the weapon. I'd think the powers would be like this, all leathal damage and using Broadsword as a concept base...

Thrust: Moderate Damage with either a -Def debuff or a -Dam debuff.

Stab: High Damage with -Def or -Res.

Pole Arc: Moderate or less damage with -Def or -Dam in a cone. Like Slice, only slightly less damage and a wider arc.

Build Up: Build Up.

Spin Deflection: Minor Damage with a plus defense to everything but Psionic, but rather than 15% as in Parry it should be between 2.5% and 5%. MAYBE 7%, but that's a strech.

Whirling Demise: High Damage, 180 Degree Cone attack (Rather than a PBAoE) with -Def. Higher damage than Whirling Sword

Blunt Strike: Superior Damage, knockdown, -Res. Animation would be smacking the person with the blunt end of the staff unless you are using Shield Defense, then it becomes a mighty smack with the shield. Only power in the set to do Smashing damage.

Run Through: Extreme Damage, 20 degree arc, knockdown, DoT effect. Can effect up to 3 foes.


I think if the devs even DID a powerset like this it they would change the powers around a bit, maybe make it -def, -res or -dam for all the powers, but I think it's an interesting start.

I can't complain about this, although I might like to make a few suggestions of my own, if that's okay.
As a small note: there is no different between a 180 degree cone and a PBAoE

Now my own ideas for a Spear/polearm set are based on giving it a -speed as a secondary effect, possibly even a full -recharge as well. This is inspired by spears and polearms often being used to hold back crowds.
Imaginably, I'd also propose the range of spears/pole arms to be greater than standard Melee sets by virtue of the polearm's reach (though also variable enough for tighter quarters) being one of it's strengths. So the base range on these would all probably be 10, 12, or possibly even 14 feet to the usual 7 feet. (Though I do understand that this would, in some cases, literally, be stretching it.)

1/1 Stab- Melee, moderate damage (lethal), Foe: -Speed, Recharge: Moderate

1/2 Thrust- Melee, minor damage (Lethal), Foe: -Speed, Recharge: Fast
not much to say about the above two, the basic bread and butter attacks of the set.

2/4 Forward Supremacy- Melee (cone), Moderate Damage (lethal), Foe: -Speed,
Recharge: moderate
A moderately narrow cone attack (so probably 25 to 30 degrees) involving multiple, rapid, thrusts. It's narrower cone, mitigated by the polearm's superior reach.

6/10 Taunt/Confront- Foe: Taunt, -range, Recharge: Fast

8/16 Holding the Line- PBAoE, Foe: Taunt, Immobilize (40% chance), Self: +To Hit, +Damage, Recharge: Very Long
This would work, more or less, like Soul Drain from Dark melee. You're drawing opponents around you to focus on you, their determination to take you down almost paralyzing (so the immob wouldn't have any obvious graphics, probably) as they turn all their efforts onto attacking you head on. you yourself brace for this and rise to the challenge against them while holding them off from your allies.

12/20 Lunging Feint- Melee (Narrow cone), Moderate damage (Lethal), Foe: -Speed, -To Hit, -Damage, recharge: moderate
Another cone, a narrow one of five degrees with an animation that would be anything but conservative of movement. The idea would be that you let go of the spear with one hand as you lunge forward, seemingly passing your foes until the character is right foot forward and violently pulling the spear back, catching foes off-guard and confounded from the returning attack.

18/28 Impale- Melee, high damage (lethal), foe: -speed, Recharge: slow
With how much nickle and diming the damage so far, this seemed like a way to throw a bone to a spear user. The animation, I envision, would involve changing the position of your hand and bringing the spear down in a violent, overhead thrust.

26/35 Sweep- Melee (Cone), Minor damage (Lethal/smashing), foe: -speed, Knockdown, Recharge: moderate
Fairly straight forward, yet another mitigation tool to keep aggro on you without it overwhelming you.

32/38 Lunge Charge- PBAoE, Superior Damage (lethal), Foe: Knockdown, Taunt, Self: Teleport Recharge: Slow
Based off of shield charge and lightning rod, you draw back and charge into the fray at full power.

P.S. Sorry about seemingly jacking this thread. Just wanted to get some of my ideas out too. Your own idea is pretty good, and to behonest, it'd be nice to have a -res set for a DPS class, unfortunately, my own katana scrapper can stack 50% defense debuffs as it is, I somehow don't imagine the Devs wanting a DPS set that can floor all resistance.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow City of Heroes is a game about freedom of expression and variety of experiences far more so than it is about representing any one theme, topic or genre.

before he left C.Bruce was on record with the following:

I like the - Speed/Recharge idea, but if Polearms were to have an extended range over other melee types I would only have it by one or two feet to avoid making it too potentially powerful.

And I do realise this would take the devs a LOT of work to implement, but I think it would be worth it in the end. Obviously this isn't something I'd expect to come out on i20, but maybe something to hope for down the line, like i24.

I think Repel as a secondary effect would go nicely with an enhanced (say, 10-foot) range on spears. You'd have the ability to keep your target out at the limits of your range -- which would put them just outside their melee range.

Considering i have done Bojitsu for 35 years and out of those 35 have done 20 years SCA Polearm fighting - I approve of this suggestion.

I would also add in a Parry similar to Broadsword as the range and threat of the polearm is also defense all its own

Each week we do what we call the 100 - you receive and give 100 blows and I did 400 received shots while defending with a polearm! So it is also a defense boost.

So the Devs are going to have to animate two entirely different sets of animations just so SD using can use it? I dont see that happening.

Now if only one of the devs like Castle were to pop in, muse over it and add his own suggestion...

And randomly, for no reason at all, I present a random idea I had for a War Scythe Power set.
It was a bit tricky to figure out what secondary effect a scythe might have without limiting themes, so I came up with an idea that as you swing a scythe, you build up momentum with each attack, going faster and faster as you continue. but because of this, Scythe recharge would be on the slow side, but really shine as you develop and attack chain. (Also, for balance purposes, the rechage bonus would have to somehow only apply itself to scythe attacks)
War Scythe, in my mind, would also be an AoE heavy set, which Dual Blades, Spines, and Claws looked to for inspiration.
The default stance for a scythe user, is listed above. (Left hand high, right hand and scythe blade low, the blade itself jutting outward at a flat angle (to allow for varied slash directions))
Power names and numbers are very open to suggestion.

1/1 Flick- Melee, minor (Lethal), Foe: minor (lethal) DoT, Self: +recharge (+7.5%), Recharge: Fast
Animation: A sharp angled, over head cut without shifting footing position. As the name implies it would look fairly weak but still leaving a bleeding cut.

1/2 Harvest - melee, moderate (lethal), foe: Knock up (30% chance), Self: +Recharge (+7.5%), Recharge: Moderate
animation: This time the scythe is brought in and rising slash from low without changing foot position.

2/4 Forward Sweep - Melee (cone), moderate (lethal), Foe: Knock down, Self: +Recharge (+5%)
animation: you step forward and sweep low and straight across, knocking your foes off their feet.

6/10 Taunt/Confront- Foe: Taunt, -range, Recharge: Fast

8/16 Reaper's Frenzy- Self: +Recharge (30%), End discount (starts at 30%, scales up with level)

12/20 Whirling Harvest - Melee (PBAoE), Moderate (lethal), Foe: Minor (Lethal) DoT, Self: +recharge (+5%), Recharge: slow
animation: you reel back the scythe and then spin in place, striking all foes around you.

18/28 Splitting strikes - melee (cone), high (lethal (over two ticks)), Self: +recharge (+5%), Recharge: Slow
animation: As you step forward you make a broad, diagonal sweep up and then make a second sweeping down as you step back.

26/35 Hook - Melee, Superior, foe: hold, Self: Recharge (+10%), Recharge: Slow
animation: you step forward as you do a rising cut like in Harvest, only this time you impale your foe on the length of the Scythe's blade, leaving it there for half a second before drawing out, leaving them held as they reel from the damage.

32/38 Thresher - Melee (cone), Superior DoT (Lethal), Foe: Knock down, Self: +Recharge (+7.5%), Recharge: Long
animation: you step forward and perform a series of broad, upward slashes as you spin the scythe in your hands, finishing with a single, powerful strike that knocks foes down. (basically a lot like One Thousand Cuts)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow City of Heroes is a game about freedom of expression and variety of experiences far more so than it is about representing any one theme, topic or genre.

I don't like the secondary effect. You want to simulate the set being slow with the subject of building momentum so eliminate the downfall of the set?

It just doesn't sit well in my mind. It'd be like giving claws a means to bypass it's moderate/light damage in lieu of it's higher efficient attacks. Would this set have abnormally high damage and endurance costs too? I could see *that* as being a secondary effect, but to add something to bypass its downfall seems unfair.


Besides, momentum is about velocity AND mass but your suggestion only amounts to speed. If I were thinking of a 'momentum concept' (not specifically for Scythe), I'd probably give the set higher stats in exchange for lower than average accuracy and a miss would maintain momentum for the next attacks, adding more damage and recharge for every miss.

That said, the set is all right (although the buff power kind of honks) with a nice balance between ST and AoE. I'd play it, but then that's not saying a whole hugely alot since I'd play any Scythe set

That gives me an idea for another set:

Thunder Hammer
Or Shatter Hammer or Momentum Hammer would be a two handed pole-hammer type set. The strength and power of this set comes with wielding its weight. Although one can wield this weapon straight, the option to use its momentum works with the set's disadvantage. Along with its bevy of control features, the TH/SH/MH naturally hits harder than normal weapons but against dodgy foes, it might be hard to land a blow as with its inherent power comes inherently lower accuracy.

1. Swing (melee ST; foe minor smashing dmg, chance of disorient; *Special* energy dmg)

2. Velocity Strike (melee cone; foe moderate smashing dmg, chance of knockdown; *Special* energy dmg)

3. Crush (melee ST; foe minor smashing DoT, immobilize, chance of disorient; *Special* energy dmg)

4/6. Taunt/Thunder Blow (short range TAoE; foe moderate smashing, knockdown; *Special* energy dmg)

5. Momentum (passive, self -11% ToHit, *Special* momentum buff)

Impervium Hammer (click, self minor dmg buff, large ToHit buff, resistance vs ToHit debuffs, momentum buff for next hit)
Note: Picking up the Impervium Hammer click will automatically grant you the momentum passive. The momentum passive will allow you stackable +recharge buff and a Fiery Embrace-esque additional energy damage onto all your hammer attacks if you ever happen to miss. The added damage is static and not based on base damage of the attack. Each momentum buff will have a limited duration but persist even after landing a blow until the duration expires (i.e. loss of momentum over time). Some powers grant you a momentum buff. These can only be accepted if you have this passive and the grantable momentum doesn't boost recharge, just adds damage.

2nd Note: Impervium Hammer isn't like Build up. It lasts about as long but only grants a small amount of +dmg but grants a very large +ToHit buff as well as a sizable resistance to ToHit debuffs for its duration. This power, upon clicking, grants the user a one-shot burst of momentum higher than the standard momentum buff but only to damage and not recharge.

7. Booming Blow (melee ST; foe Superior smashing dmg, disorient, knockback; *Special* energy dmg)

8. Rock Shatter (PBAoE; foe knockdown, chance of disorient)
Note: this power does no damage.

9. Strike of Devastation (melee ST; foe Extreme smashing dmg, hold; *Special* energy dmg; self momentum buff)
Note: Even without a miss, this power will grant you a buff to momentum, adding energy dmg to all your attacks but without the recharge buff.


The idea is, if you don't like the idea of relying on the set's special secondary effect needing to miss, you can simply skip Momentum/Impervium Hammer. Neither will add (much) straight-up damage and if you slot well with accuracy, you still reap the benefit of the set's naturally higher base damage. You can also slot to overcome its accuracy, take momentum and just see any situation (high def foes, ToHit debuffs) where you might miss a few times as an advantage.

My bad.

I dont know that slow/-rech secondaries bode well with fury (no ice in brutes). *If* this set would ever come into fruition, I'd invision the range of attack to be better than typical melee, maybe at the cost of slower strikes, in turn off set with more AoE knockdown/back. Add in some +def and +dam resist to taste.

I do like it btw.

To Leo G. - Interesting, reminds me of my SM/Fire brute - Meteor Hammer

The problem is that a staff or polearm set as we envision it really would be a complicated thing to animate. The problem is that it isn't JUST held in both hands. It is constantly switched from one hand to another. This is (as I understand it) impossible with the current game engine. The weapon has to be "attached" to one hand as a node, you couldn't animate it "flying" to where the other hand would generically be, and even if you could it would likely miss it, especially with our scalable characters.

The idea of making it a shield/spear combo solves the problem, except that in the ABSENSE of the shield, you're back to wanting to twirl it around and use it two handed. The only way I can see it working is if you continue to use it as a spear even one handed, that is, it's a stabbing weapon, and you use it one handed.

I have a couple of alternate ideas for a way around this problem, though:

1) "Fake" the two handedness by having the staff held in one hand, but your other hand is moved to place it on the staff during animations, to make it look like it's holding it. You wouldn't be able to remove the staff from the main hand, but with complex enough animations it probably wouldn't be noticable. The big problem would be clipping and the off hand not positioning correctly, depending on the scaling of the character.

Honestly, I'm guessing this is how the Stone Mallet (and Gabriel's Hammer) works, it is held two handed, but is actually likely a one handed weapon, with the other hand animated to place it on the handle during the swing. It isn't twirled, though, just brought down in an attack.

2) Use two small staves, which can be used separately, but certain animations can combine them and strike with them as a single staff weapon. This would look really cool, but sort of limit your concept.

Animating this would be a challenge, though, because the animations would essentially have to "overwrite" the staves with their own custom staff or the other. In effect, one of the staves would "extend", while the other would be held so it is close to or within the extended section. Again, this could look bad if the scaling of the character is off, but might work if both hands are held close together, as on the hilt of the Katana during attacks.

The staff could be switched from hand to hand, though, as one could "extend", and then the other, to give the illusion that the wielder switched hands. If it's possible, the off staff might actually be made to disappear, so it won't be seen if the wielder moves his hand away. I'm not sure if that's possible, though, it would have to somehow set a translucency on the weapon. Even if it doesn't disappear, if the natural form of the staff is short enough, it might not be noticable.

This second solution would not be usable with a Shield, though, as it is a Dual Wield stance, like Claws or Dual Blades. (In fact, it is in essence Dual Clubs, just with a twist. )