I think you need to post your builds. My shield Scrapper doesn't die in two hits like you describe.
Quote:
Sounds about right.
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Originally Posted by _Elektro_
Shield is great for defense, not so hot for resists, but has a stunning offensive ability which really does rock. Picking a primary really should supplement the set though as you will probably need aid self otherwise.
Willpower seems reliant on most of the power choices but it comes together nicely in end game. Very complete feeling. There is really no 'fancy' stuff with this secondary other than a well rounded secondary that works really well. |
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
Shield actually has more resistances than WP for everything but S/L and psi, although I often see Shield builds making (what I think is) the mistake of not slotting for resistances.
My shielders approximately end up with 45% def to all, 80%+ DDR, 35% S/L res (70% during T9), 20% F/C/E/N/T res (40% during T9), 30% slow res, 2000hp (2300 during T9), 300% regen and an AoE KD every 30 seconds.
On the other hand, I've never managed to softcap WP to everything but psi (let alone with psi) while keeping the same level of recharge and optimal individual power slotting as I would with a Shield build having the above stats. As for other numbers, it's usually like 50% S/L (capped at 75% during T9), 8% F/C/E/N/T (23% during T9), 30% psi res (45% during T9), 2250hp, 700% regen (bumping up to 1200% with enough foes around), 20% DDR, no slow res, no additional tool.
Outside of heavy psy enemies lacking defense debuffs, and before considering the stronger aggro aura, the stacked mez protection and the added damage, Shield is a clear winner for me.
Well...my WP scrapper is more like what you describe for your shield scrapper. Vs. most opponents his regen outpaces damage and he's fine, and then suddenly >blam!< he's on his face. The t9 doesn't really help because he goes from fine to needs a rez really fast, before the t9 can be clicked.
My WP tanker on the other hand feels more invulnerable than my Invulnerability tanker vs most content, especially Rikti. The difference is the hitpoints and regen rate difference between the two more than the RES/DEF difference. The tanker regens significantly faster.
I have yet to get a Shield anything over 22 or so, despite multiple attempts. I get frustrated and quit on them. I've got a Mace/Shield Brute at somewhere in the tweens that shows promise that I play with my son (he likes the shield, which is why we've had so many attempts at it). The reliable stuns and knockdowns of Mace really seem to complement Shield, and it's been a very smooth ride so far. Hopefully this will be the one that pans out to higher levels.
At the lower levels I almost feel like my toon is naked, more so than other DEF based sets (I prefer DEF over RES generally). The click status effect is annoying now that toggle drops don't happen, and leaves me vulnerable until I can get the recharge down for no overlap. AAO is very sweet, but ultimately it just leads me to be too aggressive and bite off more than my weak mitigation can handle and get faceplanted. I know Shield is a good set from the numbers and the love it gets from players whose judgement I respect, but I think it just doesn't suit my play style.
So, if it were me, I'd invest in the WP scrapper 
Quote:
MIDS Builds or it didn't happen!! |
Originally Posted by Nihilii
My shielders approximately end up with 45% def to all, 80%+ DDR, 35% S/L res (70% during T9), 20% F/C/E/N/T res (40% during T9), 30% slow res, 2000hp (2300 during T9), 300% regen and an AoE KD every 30 seconds. |
WP is more survivable in general. SD gives you more offense.
Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster
Example build for DM/SD, this assumes using the rech/heal uncommon :
Code:
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Quote:
As Nihilii said, aside from SM/L, SD has better resistances across the board.|
Originally Posted by _Elektro_
Shield is great for defense, not so hot for resists, but has a stunning offensive ability which really does rock. Picking a primary really should supplement the set though as you will probably need aid self otherwise.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by _Elektro_
Willpower seems reliant on most of the power choices but it comes together nicely in end game. Very complete feeling. There is really no 'fancy' stuff with this secondary other than a well rounded secondary that works really well.
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WP can skip the self res and the T9.
SD can skip Grant Cover and the T9.
In the age of i19 inherent fitness, I would not skip the T9 on either of them due to their ability to slot mule, not needing more than a single slot to function decently and their overall usefulness thanks to the lessened severity of their crashes in comparison to other similar T9s.
I would also never skip Grant Cover on any SD I build from this point forward.
Quote:
Grant Cover adds a good chunk of defense debuff resistance. It is not a good idea to skip it.
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Originally Posted by Deus_Otiosus
SD can skip Grant Cover and the T9.
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Quote:
Well I suppose to some degree the debate isn't always going to be equal as my builds are strictly without purples nor hammi O's.|
Originally Posted by Nihilii
Shield actually has more resistances than WP for everything but S/L and psi, although I often see Shield builds making (what I think is) the mistake of not slotting for resistances.
My shielders approximately end up with 45% def to all, 80%+ DDR, 35% S/L res (70% during T9), 20% F/C/E/N/T res (40% during T9), 30% slow res, 2000hp (2300 during T9), 300% regen and an AoE KD every 30 seconds. |
But I do think in late game Psi resist is worth mentioning.
I will say without purples and hammi's my DM/Shield is far inferior (numbers wise) than my DB/Willpower.
DB/Willpower:
Defense:
- 35.7 Melee
- 21 Ranged
- 16.9 AoE
- 45.7 Smashing/Lethal
Resists:
- 50.1 Smashing/Lethal
- 29.7 Psi
Recovery= 235%
Regen= 578%
Recharge= 112%
The ONLY categories that my DM/Shield dude is beating is:
Defense:
- 45.7 Melee
- 45.2 Ranged
- 42.2 AoE
To reach these numbers in defense, you could say I sacrificed Resists, as they are about 20 % lower than the Willpower toon for S/L.
As well the Willpower toon has nearly twice the regen (shown above) than my DM/Shield toon.
I either made a huge mistake in my DM/Shield build, or as I'm suspecting, they aren't even close..... ????
Nekron: Beam Rifle / Poison Corruptor and Slayer of Evil!! (Exalted)
Intergalaktic: Fire / Time Corruptor (Exalted)
I like shield defense because it is fun.
I like shield defense because it makes bad guys fall down
I like shield defense because it is scrapper's i win button
Virtue: @Santorican
Dark/Shield Build Thread
Elektro you should post up your dark/shield build in my thread. It sounds to me like there are some errors in your build.
Virtue: @Santorican
Dark/Shield Build Thread
I did post it up...!
But I even compared my dual blades guy to your Murcielago build, and aside from having very respectable specific resists, and capped AoE, Ranged, Melee defense, I think my Dual Blades/Willpower is actually more 'maximized' without hitting purples, or hammis.
On top of that, I was looking at our health and regen which we could suppose is a 'form' of defense....
Murcielago is going from zero to full health in 101.73 seconds to a total of 2011.543 hitpoints.
My DB/WP build is going from zero to full health in 41.43 seconds to a total of 2227.658 HP.
So if I take all that into consideration, either my shield build is borked or I think WP provides where I think is most helpful. We're talking pure survivability here.
Nekron: Beam Rifle / Poison Corruptor and Slayer of Evil!! (Exalted)
Intergalaktic: Fire / Time Corruptor (Exalted)
I know I'm going to be the lone dissenter on this one, but I'd go with Willpower personally. I have a Dark/Willpower Scrapper that I've been able to take down Pylons and AVs with and yet my Fire/Shield, while she was pretty awesome, didn't even come close to accomplishing alot of the things I have with my Dark/WP.
I just find the survivability of WP to be greater than that of Shield, personally. Of course, pairing WP with Dark Melee helps as well. To be honest though, it's more of a personal preference thing for me. Shield will always do more damage and thus generally probably be more survivable by the default of beating mobs down faster so that they have less time to put a hurt on you.
However, when it comes to say, walking away while surrounded by +4 mobs to grab a drink or whatever, I'd go with Willpower as being the set most likey to still have you standing around when you get back.
That's just been my personal experience though. I really didn't care for /Shield. I actually deleted it recently. It was more the animations than anything else though, I think.
Quote:
Since I soloed a pylon fully saturated and cranked out 230dps with out breaking a sweat and that was not even my best build. I took at Infernal with my fire/sd and he has 50% fire resistance no insp no temps. I took out Nightstar, Chimeroa, Battle maiden, Marauder and several others I am not listing.|
Originally Posted by JeNeSaisQuoi
I know I'm going to be the lone dissenter on this one, but I'd go with Willpower personally. I have a Dark/Willpower Scrapper that I've been able to take down Pylons and AVs with and yet my Fire/Shield, while she was pretty awesome, didn't even come close to accomplishing alot of the things I have with my Dark/WP.
I just find the survivability of WP to be greater than that of Shield, personally. Of course, pairing WP with Dark Melee helps as well. To be honest though, it's more of a personal preference thing for me. Shield will always do more damage and thus generally probably be more survivable by the default of beating mobs down faster so that they have less time to put a hurt on you. However, when it comes to say, walking away while surrounded by +4 mobs to grab a drink or whatever, I'd go with Willpower as being the set most likey to still have you standing around when you get back. That's just been my personal experience though. I really didn't care for /Shield. I actually deleted it recently. It was more the animations than anything else though, I think. |
Now it take a significant investment to get to the level and aidself makes a world of difference in the AV fighting realm. Heck my aidself usage has gone down since inherent stamina and health because I was able to get my regen rate into the 20's
Pinnacle
Langar Thurs-Katana/SR 50; Hejtmane-DM/DA 50
Rogue Spear-Spines/DA 50; Hypnosis-Ill/Rad 50
Sir Thomas Theroux-DM/SR 50; Melted Copper-Fire/Shield 50
Byzantine Warrior-DB/ELA 50;Blade Tempo-50 DB/EA
Quote:
In general I agree with you, but pre i19 sometimes slots were tight, and 14% DDR could be sacrificed to squeeze something else you need in - especially if you were already running 2~3x membranes.|
Originally Posted by Syntax42
Grant Cover adds a good chunk of defense debuff resistance. It is not a good idea to skip it.
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It also depends on your primary, a high recharge Elm/SD has a pretty serious amount of KD - if your enemies aren't standing, they aren't debuffing your defense (Tanker/Brute SS/SD, WM/SD, SM/SD also get a mention here as well).
My SS/SD brute ran for quite a while with no Grant Cover, and maybe once or twice per ITF, if I was totally off on my own, I would see dangerous def buffing - usually around 40-43% def I would pop a good luck or phenom luck.
Still, as I said, with inherent fitness I would never skip grant cover on an SD build from this point forward.
If we're talking pure survivability here on SOs alone (what the game is "balanced around"), Willpower will out-survive Shield any day of the week. That's what it's good at: Surviving. It puts you in mobs, it keeps you alive while you mutilate things. The problem comes when you begin putting IOs in these two... Then Shield begins to pull in front. Why? Well, it's simple really.
A good Elec/SD Build can get soft-capped defense, Aid Self healing 40% HP up every 8-10 seconds, and can solo +3/x8 quicker than the equivalent Elec/WP because Shield Charge and Against All Odds makes it faster. Keep in mind, the best way to increase your survivability is by leaving mobs dead around you, and no secondary for scrappers can do that faster than Shield. Period. That equivalent Willpower can slot for more recharge, maybe throw in some defense set bonuses, and you'll be looking at a well-rounded, aggro-holding, very survivable, mob destroying scrapper that looks at the shield and wonders what could have been.
Note: That above paragraph is assuming NO purples and NO Hami-O's. I could make an equivalent 1 Billion INF build for both, and the Elec/SD could out DPS and out-survive the Elec/WP Scrapper. If we introduce more and more money, Elec/SD pulls further and further away as you get to kill a mob within 10-15 seconds, and by the time you get to the next mob, Lighting Rod and Shield Charge are already recharged.
If you want something that's easier to level, easier to spend money on, easier to have fun on, and will be a general, all-around survivable build, Willpower is that toon.
If you want to kill mobs faster while you grind your way through the minimal survivability levelling to 50, then drop more money on a build than you would on a Willpower, but feel so much better after all is said and done, Shield is the way to go.
In closing:
Willpower is a strong, sturdy, all-around survivability set that will keep you standing longer and with more HP than shield ever could while your levelling and putting SO's in it. Once you get to 50 and begin weighing IO options, Shield begins to pull away from Willpower in almost every aspect.
The reason why making a Shield tanker my first 50 has spoiled me for any other defensive powerset... :'(
Fair enough, I said it earlier that damage is a form of survivability.
However, everyone misses once in a while, or a few lucky crits get in under the defense. Personally that's where I'm finding the Shield is not cutting it right now. (Again I only have my build to judge.)
So it's 'Forum Challenge' time!
Right now I can't beat my Dual Blades/Willpower build with my DM/Shield. Sooo I submit to you my build. This is extremely similar to my build, I just use different combo's of attacks. However, the point is, I can't come close to this (including the regen abilities) with my Shield toon.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.91
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
DBWPScrapper: Level 50 Magic Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Dual Blades
Secondary Power Set: Willpower
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Body Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Nimble Slash -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(3), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(5), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(7), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(7)
Level 1: High Pain Tolerance -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(9), Numna-Heal(9), Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(11), Heal-I(11)
Level 2: Ablating Strike -- T'Death-Acc/Dmg(A), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx(13), T'Death-Dmg/Rchg(15), T'Death-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(15), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(17), T'Death-Dam%(17)
Level 4: Mind Over Body -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam(5), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(19), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(19)
Level 6: Fast Healing -- Mrcl-Rcvry+(A)
Level 8: Blinding Feint -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(23), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(23), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(25), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(25), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(27)
Level 10: Indomitable Will -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 12: Typhoon's Edge -- C'ngBlow-Acc/Dmg(A), C'ngBlow-Dmg/EndRdx(13), C'ngBlow-Dmg/Rchg(27), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(29), Erad-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(29), Erad-%Dam(31)
Level 14: Boxing -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(31), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(31), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(33)
Level 16: Rise to the Challenge -- Numna-Heal/EndRdx(A), Numna-Heal/Rchg(33), Numna-Heal(33), Numna-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(34)
Level 18: Vengeful Slice -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(34), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(34), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(36), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(36), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(36)
Level 20: Quick Recovery -- P'Shift-EndMod(A), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(21), P'Shift-End%(21), EndMod-I(37)
Level 22: Tough -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(39), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(39), RctvArm-ResDam(39)
Level 24: Weave -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(40), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(40)
Level 26: Sweeping Strike -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(40), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(42), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(42), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(42), Oblit-%Dam(43)
Level 28: Heightened Senses -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(43), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(43)
Level 30: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 32: Maneuvers -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(46), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(46)
Level 35: Tactics -- GSFC-ToHit(A), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg(37), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(37), GSFC-Rchg/EndRdx(45), GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx(45), GSFC-Build%(45)
Level 38: Strength of Will -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(46), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(48), RctvArm-ResDam(48)
Level 41: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 44: Conserve Power -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 47: Physical Perfection -- P'Shift-End%(A)
Level 49: Confront -- RechRdx-I(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(50), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(50), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(50)
Level 1: Sprint -- Clrty-Stlth(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- RgnTis-Regen+(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- EndMod-I(A), P'Shift-End%(3)
Code:
What do you think? No purps or ham. This is not a 'cheapo' build, but doable for most of us. Can shield keep up with that?
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Nekron: Beam Rifle / Poison Corruptor and Slayer of Evil!! (Exalted)
Intergalaktic: Fire / Time Corruptor (Exalted)
...um.
From a pure survivability standpoint, given equal investments, willpower is MUCH more durable than shield.
I'm sorry folks, but that's just truth in advertising.
Get S/L/E/N/F/C to 40-ish percent, toss in the -3.75 tohit debuff in RTTC, the HUGE regen buff in RTTC, etc, etc, etc, and a WP will survive stuff that faceplants any SD over and over again.
And let's be honest, an Inv is even tougher than a tooled-up wp....a little. 
Now, the SD is gonna be plenty tough, don't get me wrong, and has ALL THAT DAMAGE.... 
I personally think (and have thought for a long time now) that SD is waaaay overpowered, but it's not because of the extreme durability of it.
It's just durable ENOUGH.
Also, I think fire and electric armor for scraps/brutes should get some boosting. Fire especially is supposed to do more damage than shield (and it does) but the difference in survivability is a lot more than the difference in damage.
My two cents!
Quote:
I suspect that the bigger factor in your perceived survivability discrepency is due to your primaries. Dual Blades will have a significant AoE advantage over Dark Melee. Your secondaries both thrive when surrounded by enemies, but Dark Melee isn't particularly great at dispensing with them efficiently. Shield Defense has higher defenses, and higher resistances (potentially), but allowing enemies to stick around longer gives them more chances to get lucky and two shot you. Willpower is more vulnerable to alpha deaths by comparison, where the incoming DPS is too high for their regen, and their defense and resistance isn't high enough to reduce the DPS enough to give them time to get past the alpha volley. This is essentially the old SR vs. Regen debate, just complicated more with the newer sets' layered mitigation. Is it better to rarely get hit, or just regen hit points than the incoming damage takes away? Short answer: it depends. Long answer: it depends on a lot of things |
Originally Posted by _Elektro_
Well I suppose to some degree the debate isn't always going to be equal as my builds are strictly without purples nor hammi O's.
But I do think in late game Psi resist is worth mentioning. I will say without purples and hammi's my DM/Shield is far inferior (numbers wise) than my DB/Willpower. DB/Willpower: Defense: - 35.7 Melee - 21 Ranged - 16.9 AoE - 45.7 Smashing/Lethal Resists: - 50.1 Smashing/Lethal - 29.7 Psi Recovery= 235% Regen= 578% Recharge= 112% The ONLY categories that my DM/Shield dude is beating is: Defense: - 45.7 Melee - 45.2 Ranged - 42.2 AoE To reach these numbers in defense, you could say I sacrificed Resists, as they are about 20 % lower than the Willpower toon for S/L. As well the Willpower toon has nearly twice the regen (shown above) than my DM/Shield toon. I either made a huge mistake in my DM/Shield build, or as I'm suspecting, they aren't even close..... ???? |
. In this case, your primaries are skewing things in favour of WP. If you had DM/WP vs. BS/SD (to keep with the sword theme), I think you'd be saying the opposite of what you are now. *shrugs*
I think Mauk got it mostly right.
Sure, an SD at the softcap is pretty survivable, but a well built WP at the softcap is even moreso(and Inv is a step above).
I don't think Elec needs a buff. You can get its defenses really high through IO's without sacrificing much due to its endurance management, and you get some nice benefits in a great self heal, +recharge, and a damage aura. Really good armor set for high recharge builds, and more survivable than SD IMO.
I don't think Fire Armor needs a buff either. Sure it's the least survivable defensive set, but its offense is unmatched.
Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster
I think there's a few flaws in the comparison...
Dark Melee/Shield vs Dual Blade/Willpower...the Primaries make a difference.
As you can't have a DB/Shield...I'd say one should compare DM/Shield vs DM/WP.
All things being equal in the funding, I'd likely give the nod to Shield. Without Shield Charge factored in, AAO is helping give you bigger hits, to take out the mobs faster.
Softcapped Defenses, +HP (True Grit + OwtS), some resists...backed up by Siphon Life.
The WP even with softcapped defenses, will have the greater Regen, but slightly lower exotic resists.
I think they'd both do just fine on surviving the 3/8 setting, but the Shielder will clear the map faster.
This is for the most part anyways. Where I find some differences...going up against enemies packed with +tohit. I find WP out survives Shielders a bit more in those situations, but it isn't always the case as Shielders like to kill things fast! So they may not have to worry so much about them.
At least WP is a bit more concept friendly \o/
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The BrandX Collection
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Well, I didn't say that it couldn't be done--far from it--only that I have had better results with my Dark/WP, personally. In general, /Shield will do just about anything better than Willpower. Other than just standing there while mobs beat on you without attacking back, Shield is the clear winner. And really, no one designs a toon based on it's ability to stand around and do nothing and not get killed. |
Originally Posted by Hejtmane
Since I soloed a pylon fully saturated and cranked out 230dps with out breaking a sweat and that was not even my best build. I took at Infernal with my fire/sd and he has 50% fire resistance no insp no temps. I took out Nightstar, Chimeroa, Battle maiden, Marauder and several others I am not listing.
Now it take a significant investment to get to the level and aidself makes a world of difference in the AV fighting realm. Heck my aidself usage has gone down since inherent stamina and health because I was able to get my regen rate into the 20's |
However, I really enjoy that Willpower does that really well because I sometimes hit massive lag spikes. Willpower has always come out on top for me in that regard. Before I deleted my Fire/Shield, I would sometimes hit a lag spike and then find myself on the ground, provided the mobs were tough enough. I'd say that it's the only thing Willpower can do better than Shield. Just my personal experience though.
But yeah, if you just want an "I Win" button, Shield is the way to go. There's a reason that half the Scrappers you see in the game have Shields, even after the Shield Charge change. Honestly, the only good reasons to play anything other than Shield are, in my opinion:
1.) Other Secondaries might cost you less to IO out.
2.) Can't pair it with certain Powersets.
3.) Concept.
4.) You just don't like the way it looks or plays.
5.) Shield is too FotM for you.
But again, looking at the Pylon results and seeing that /Shield Scrappers are taking them down in like three minutes, where as it took my Dark/WP ten minutes to do it, it's pretty easy to see which is functionally better.
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Originally Posted by Guardien
I suspect that the bigger factor in your perceived survivability discrepency is due to your primaries. Dual Blades will have a significant AoE advantage over Dark Melee. Your secondaries both thrive when surrounded by enemies, but Dark Melee isn't particularly great at dispensing with them efficiently. Shield Defense has higher defenses, and higher resistances (potentially), but allowing enemies to stick around longer gives them more chances to get lucky and two shot you. Willpower is more vulnerable to alpha deaths by comparison, where the incoming DPS is too high for their regen, and their defense and resistance isn't high enough to reduce the DPS enough to give them time to get past the alpha volley. This is essentially the old SR vs. Regen debate, just complicated more with the newer sets' layered mitigation. Is it better to rarely get hit, or just regen hit points than the incoming damage takes away? Short answer: it depends. Long answer: it depends on a lot of things
. In this case, your primaries are skewing things in favour of WP. If you had DM/WP vs. BS/SD (to keep with the sword theme), I think you'd be saying the opposite of what you are now. *shrugs* |
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Originally Posted by Shadow Ravenwolf
My favorite combo is Faceplant/DebtCap with the TeamWipe Ancillary
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Originally Posted by Dispari
Yeah, I like Blasters too.
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So after getting a few scrappers up to 50, I decided to take one and really try to IO him up and give him all the treats I can afford.
And I actually thought for certain my Dark Melee/Shield guy was going to do it for me. But rather than make a hasty decision, I tested a few of my 50's, including a Dual Blade / Willpower.
Now I'm not so sure. Is there a clear cut winner between these two secondaries?
I find my shield is a situation where I'll get two shotted a lot at +3. I either go through mobs and stay relatively unharmed, or I'll notice a crit go off.... and it's time for Siphon Life, and hopefully I'm not trapped in an animation that doesn't fire off in time.
I also noticed with Shield, I recently decided to pick up OWTS, and found I had to use it earlier than the Willpower equivalent to compensate for getting hit too hard before it has a chance to fire off.
Conversely with Willpower there's a good chance you're always taking some damage. It might be light, but you're probably taking a few rocks off the melon from every +3 mob.
I know the Primary choices DO matter. Dark Melee has good synergy with Shield because it can compensate for those critical moments with siphon life.
And Dual Blades I find works well with Willpower because the resists (across a decent range) really do give you time to pull off those longer Dual Blade animations.
I guess at 50 what I'm finding in soloing some +3 missions is this kind of breakdown between the secondaries:
Shield is great for defense, not so hot for resists, but has a stunning offensive ability which really does rock. Picking a primary really should supplement the set though as you will probably need aid self otherwise.
Willpower seems reliant on most of the power choices but it comes together nicely in end game. Very complete feeling. There is really no 'fancy' stuff with this secondary other than a well rounded secondary that works really well.
So what do you guys think? Am I imagining things? Are both sets fairly equal in their own way? Or do you think one shines over the other in any particular area, if at all?
Nekron: Beam Rifle / Poison Corruptor and Slayer of Evil!! (Exalted)
Intergalaktic: Fire / Time Corruptor (Exalted)