Combos, how do they work?!!?
By
Angelxman81,
Posted on: 2011-01-08 22:38 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
They just daisy chain attacks to create effect. When you start one, the next power in the chain gets highlighted assuming you have it on a tray. They are no big deal, although they are pretty fun, and you can totally get by without them. I didn't even touch combos until I was of a level to use Sweep and Attack Vitals, because the other combos are worthless. Once you get the two that are good for something, you will like them plenty.
edit: they are nothing like magnets
So there aren't tons of combos, just a few specific ones where there's a chain that has some extra effect?
It just seems like, if they aren't going to be a balance problem, the power set has to be weaker without them so it isn't overpowered with them, or something like that.
Hmm. I guess I still can't figure out the balance implications.
Its how the set is balanced. Dual Blades doesn't do a whole lot of 'front loaded' damage, but its combo's are the secondary effects (like fire melee has the fire DoT, dark melee has -tohit, katana/BS have -def, and claws has lower rech/end costs)
Quote:
There's four combos, two of which are bad and two of which are good, so I guess they balance each other out. I honestly didn't find the set lacking before I got into the combos, and I have heard tell that the top performers with DB don't use combos, so make of that what you will.
|
Originally Posted by seebs
So there aren't tons of combos, just a few specific ones where there's a chain that has some extra effect?
It just seems like, if they aren't going to be a balance problem, the power set has to be weaker without them so it isn't overpowered with them, or something like that. |
Quote:
That's because there aren't any.|
Originally Posted by seebs
Hmm. I guess I still can't figure out the balance implications.
|
There's only one set for Combination Attacks in the game.
That set is Dual Blades.
Dual Blades is balanced to be competitive with other melee sets. Being competitive does not necessarily mean matching total DPS, matching total debuff, or being exactly equal.
The melee sets already feature a wide range of powers and effects. Case(s) in point: Dark Melee is not going to put out the same pbaoe damage as Spines. Dark Melee doesn't have to put out the same pbaoe damage as Spines. Dark Melee has it's own feature set of powers.
Spines is not going to put out the same single-target as Broadsword. Spines doesn't have to put out the same single-target damage as Broadsword. Spines has it's own feature set of powers.
And so on... and so on... and so on.
Dual Blades feature is that it has combination attacks. These combination attacks unlock various mitigation effects for the Dual Blades set.
This gives the Dual Blades set a bit more versatility. Need a little bit more Debuff? Lead into a Weaken combination. Need to park a mob for a second or two? Lead into a Sweep combination.
Also: pulling off the combo's is fairly easy. A bright orange circle shows around powers that will trigger the next stage of a combination attack.
Quote:
Yup the best attack chain for DB is BF>AS>SS>AS. It takes a lot of recharge but it can put out some crazy DPS. The next(I think) is BF>AV combo, it's not as good but it is still good DPS. What it comes down to is Sweeping Strike is just that good of an attack, and having BF to give it more damage makes it better.
|
Originally Posted by Emberly
There's four combos, two of which are bad and two of which are good, so I guess they balance each other out. I honestly didn't find the set lacking before I got into the combos, and I have heard tell that the top performers with DB don't use combos, so make of that what you will.
|
"All right, they're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time"- Chesty Puller US Marine Corps
Quote:
What are the balance implications? I'll list them for you.|
Originally Posted by seebs
Hmm. I guess I still can't figure out the balance implications.
|
Just for reference, Dual Blades is the only set with combos. Also, it's pretty close, power-wise and damage-wise, with the Claws melee set. You can basically take both sets and line them up next to eachother. Every power one has, the other has an equivalent. However:
-Claws has a 40ft ranged ST attack where DB's version is 8ft melee range
-Claws has a 30ft cone attack where DB's version is only 10ft
-All of Claws' powers recharge faster and cost less endurance for the damage they do while DB's attacks follow the damage/endurance/recharge formula
-Quite a few of Claw's attacks animate fast while DB's aren't so much...
-DB has combos.
...that's it. DBs isn't 'gimp' just because it gets to have combos. It's pretty much claws without the long range and costs more endurance. But hey, you can get a PBAoE Knockdown to stack with your other KD powers, you can get a bit better +dmg from your 'Follow Up-esque' power, your tier 9 only knocks foes down rather than back...oh, and your Eviscerate is *much* faster cast.
You know, I somehow ended up convinced that Katana was a combo set, but obviously it's not. No idea what I was thinking of. Could just be I kept seeing dual blades after having forgotten where I'd seen that before.
So it sounds like DB is slightly weaker than Claws if you don't ever use combos, but the combos give some extra flexibility and options in some cases. Well, we'll see how I like it; it was the best choice for a character concept.
Quote:
I wouldn't really agree with this. In fact, I'd say DB is less flexible than other sets, due to the need to complete combos locking them into a specific attack order.|
Originally Posted by seebs
So it sounds like DB is slightly weaker than Claws if you don't ever use combos, but the combos give some extra flexibility and options in some cases.
|
However, it is a cool looking, fun and effective set, providing a good amount of ST and AoE damage along with a nice bit of control in the form of knockdowns.
I love my DB/WP scrapper.
She can inflict serious damage. And the combos, animations and weapon customization are awesome.
One of my favourite sets.
Quote:
If by weaker, you mean costs more endurance and has less range?|
Originally Posted by seebs
So it sounds like DB is slightly weaker than Claws if you don't ever use combos
|
Honestly, just look at the powers in Mids'. Some powers deal the same damage, some deal more, some deal less. One isn't really weaker, they just do different things. For example:
Claws tier 9 Shockwave does 72 dmg, 90 degrees and 30ft range and knocks back the foe *but* has a 1sec cast time.
DB's tier 9 One Thousand Cuts does 161 dmg, 90 degrees but a 8ft range and knocks down the foe *but* has a 3sec cast time.
One does more damage at shorter range with longer cast time while keeping the foes near. The other does less damage at longer range with shorter cast time but knocks foes away.
Okay. So... Trying again to get this:
DB, if you don't use combos, is a decent set which is within the broad range of effectiveness of CoH melee attack sets.
DB, if you use combos, is a decent set which is within the broad range of effectiveness of CoH melee attack sets.
Quote:
that sounds about right.
|
Originally Posted by seebs
Okay. So... Trying again to get this:
DB, if you don't use combos, is a decent set which is within the broad range of effectiveness of CoH melee attack sets. DB, if you use combos, is a decent set which is within the broad range of effectiveness of CoH melee attack sets. |
Quote:
You're supposed to be wrong, saist. Sheesh. |
Originally Posted by je_saist
that sounds about right.
|
(I keed.)
DB is fun... and if you play a db stalker, has one of the nastiest looking ASes of the stalker sets. Don't worry overmuch about chasing combos, but don't completely ignore them either. Just have to work them in when appropriate.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by seebs
Okay. So... Trying again to get this:
DB, if you don't use combos, is a decent set which is within the broad range of effectiveness of CoH melee attack sets. DB, if you use combos, is a decent set which is within the broad range of effectiveness of CoH melee attack sets. |
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by je_saist
that sounds about right.
|
Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
Quote:
Awesome thing about that attack chain is that AS and SS are used very often, and both can be slotted with different purple and -res procs while BF can be slotted with the build up proc.|
Originally Posted by BrokenPrey
Yup the best attack chain for DB is BF>AS>SS>AS. It takes a lot of recharge but it can put out some crazy DPS. The next(I think) is BF>AV combo, it's not as good but it is still good DPS. What it comes down to is Sweeping Strike is just that good of an attack, and having BF to give it more damage makes it better.
|
If you're loaded with inf, a DB scrapper is a good investment.
Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster
I made an invuln/db tanker, just because I happened to be looking for a tanker. It's working well so far, and Aunt Millie is putting the "aunt" back in "taunt aura".
SOmething that should be said...
Don't worry about missing an attack in your combo chain!
I know some people hate the combo's because they feel if they miss an attack it screws up the combo.
While yes it does. It's just like missing an attack in ANY attack chain. Just keep clicking down your line of attacks and go.
Now, if you're missing enough to not get a combo off at all? Time to look at your ACC!
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
My girlfriend sometimes gets bored on her DB/Elec Scrapper because it's so unkillablely godlike.
I don't have a DB character myself, but hearing that confession from her made me want to roll one up on the spot!
Quote:
It's a great combination even without IO's, but DB/Elec has incredible build potential. You can get some crazy stuff on it through heavy inf investment.|
Originally Posted by Gehnen
My girlfriend sometimes gets bored on her DB/Elec Scrapper because it's so unkillablely godlike.
I don't have a DB character myself, but hearing that confession from her made me want to roll one up on the spot! |
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showp...8&postcount=22
Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster
Quote:
While I would agree with your assessment of the combos for a high-level character, it's not so true for a low-level one. On the one hand, the two powerful combos aren't available until later anyway. On the other, Weaken and Empower combos can help a lowbie a lot before the character is fully fleshed out. Empower also helps out with the lack of a real Build Up in the set.|
Originally Posted by Emberly
There's four combos, two of which are bad and two of which are good, so I guess they balance each other out. I honestly didn't find the set lacking before I got into the combos, and I have heard tell that the top performers with DB don't use combos, so make of that what you will.
|
In later levels for a DB character, I would respec to go from Weaken/Empower towards Sweep/Attack Vitals. The latter two are more powerful combos, use some of the better powers in the set, and if you try to get all four combos, you're forcing yourself to take all 8 non-Taunt powers (or all 9 powers for Stalkers) rather than giving yourself room to choose.
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
Quote:
Though in the post-Inherent-Fitness world, that's not exactly a big deal, IMHO. Depending, of course, on what pools you want.
|
Originally Posted by Fleeting Whisper
... and if you try to get all four combos, you're forcing yourself to take all 8 non-Taunt powers (or all 9 powers for Stalkers) rather than giving yourself room to choose.
|
So, I have a confession to make.
Every time I consider a set and see something about "combos" I go roll something else because I don't know what combos are, how they work, or whatever. I don't know whether they mean I have to take a power that's otherwise sucky, or whatever. I don't know whether they're an optional way to get extra mileage out of a set above and beyond the normal performance, or whether the combo-bases sets are gimped unless you use the combos a lot.
Help?