Quote:
OK.|
Originally Posted by Signpost
Then prove it. I see most of your defenses comes from 6-slotted sets, all of them rare. Mine wouldn't be that far off from Dech's build defensively, since it has the basics (I haven't seen his build, but I have seen his spreadsheet, which gives similar values. Unless he has a newer build than that.), it just probably won't be nearly as offensive. Which is fine by me, I've a scrapper when I want to seriously slog out.
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I just checked the market and did the math, and mine is actually cheaper by about 200mil counting the necessary +defense IO's alone(including all the "rare" IO sets). A big bulk of your cost was the Eradication IO's, Rectified Reticle IO's, and Reactive Armor IO's.
Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster
Quote:
Maybe we've a different opinion on cost then, since I grab most of my yellow IOs from bronze ticket rolls. (and I didn't realize how cheap "rare" IOs are, which only points to how flawed the whole market system is)|
Originally Posted by Auroxis
OK.
I just checked the market and did the math, and mine is actually cheaper by about 200mil counting the necessary +defense IO's alone(including all the "rare" IO sets). A big bulk of your cost was the Eradication IO's, Rectified Reticle IO's, and Reactive Armor IO's. |
Ok, off-topic: is there anywhere I can see how expensive recipes are on average, since I can't rely on rarity of recipe?
Quote:
What's wrong with looking at the market to see how expensive IO's are?
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Originally Posted by Signpost
Maybe we've a different opinion on cost then, since I grab most of my yellow IOs from bronze ticket rolls. (and I didn't realize how cheap "rare" IOs are, which only points to how flawed the whole market system is)
Ok, off-topic: is there anywhere I can see how expensive recipes are on average, since I can't rely on rarity of recipe? |
Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster
Quote:
Just out of curiosity, doesn't Chilling Embrace have a -dmg component too? How good is it?
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Originally Posted by CBeet
Personal opinions ahoy
Short answer: Ice/Stone Tanker, plenty of tools for self softcapping, self endurance management, control, damage and aggro management. Long answer: In a team that needs a Tank, I want one who will hold the aggro no matter what's thrown at it. Considering one of my favorite team additions is an AoE Blaster (usually Fire, Beety like big boom) they need to be REALLY good at it. Ice Armour has two taunt auras, one does damage and the other's -recharge (damage mitigation) and -speed (stops them from running away). Similarly, because of the taunt cap being a fickle thing, it's nice if they have some way to help the team with the spillage so Stone's high ST damage and the amazing power of Fault fit the bill (either you make one or two runners go splat or you just stun them from afar, remember, Fault is a -ranged- AoE stun and knockdown). For survivability, Ice mostly runs off it's defense and the Dull Pain substitute. It has a PBAoE drain power which gives you endurance and a pittance of defense (also a taunt componant!) every 30 seconds with 3 SOs worth of recharge in it.. Best bit? 45 second duration for the defense so it'll stack for a bit too. It can be softcapped with just one IO (the ever useful 3% proc) and a smothering of the drain power Energy Absorption. Stone Melee's additional mitigation will compliment Ice as, IMO, Defense sets almost require a way of having a moment of breathing room for making insp or getting a good view of the battle. Want some more synergy? Ice will keep any enemies around you aggroed or runspeed debuffed enough that they will be soon enough as you cave in the skulls of your current targets and any enemies which run/are aggroed accidently you can retaunt/stop with Fault, which is a perma AoE stun if slotted for 2 acc 2 stun 2 recharge. AVs/GMs may be the only problem, but pop one purple and you're softcapped for good anyhow. Ice will counteract Stone's high endurance, Stone with counteract Ice's.. Uhm.. Nothing, really, it just adds to the already good mitigation. If you go into an IO investment, there're plenty of places to put LotGs for a high recharge builds (Fault, Hoarfrost and Energy Absorption up more often), enough attacks/controls for a high defense build and even the cheaper option of a simple +hp build works well with a defense-based Tanktroller.. You can almost think of it as a defense based Dark Armour  |
Virtue and Freedom
Hi, my name is Northman, and I am an Altoholic. No wait, I'm Lost Nova, no wait, Arc Havoc, no, Dragon Moon, no, Lord Fury......
Quote:
The fact that there're like 300++ recipes?
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Originally Posted by Auroxis
What's wrong with looking at the market to see how expensive IO's are?
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Quote:
Where's the logic in that?|
Originally Posted by Signpost
The fact that there're like 300++ recipes?
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How does the amount of overall recipes change the fact that some recipes are worth more than others due to supply and demand?
Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster
Quote:
I meant that, looking at mids, I can't tell how much a recipe is until I check the AH. Then, finding out something is expensive, I adjust mids again, then have to look at the AH again. For each and every adjustment I make. And adjustments adds up when one is not confining oneself to a specific powers, or powersets, or archetypes..
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Originally Posted by Auroxis
Where's the logic in that?
How does the amount of overall recipes change the fact that some recipes are worth more than others due to supply and demand? |
Quote:
Oh. I never used mids to figure out build prices. Experience with the ingame market provides a rough estimation and that's all I need.
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Originally Posted by Signpost
I meant that, looking at mids, I can't tell how much a recipe is until I check the AH. Then, finding out something is expensive, I adjust mids again, then have to look at the AH again. For each and every adjustment I make. And adjustments adds up when one is not confining oneself to a specific powers, or powersets, or archetypes..
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Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster
Quote:
I can't say it's noticable but it's there. Mids is saying a 14% damage debuff to all enemies effected, so that's like giving everyone a 14% resistance to all damage. Another point to Ice!
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Originally Posted by Northman
Just out of curiosity, doesn't Chilling Embrace have a -dmg component too? How good is it?
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I am the Blaster, I have filled the role of Tank, Controller and Defender
Sometimes all at once.
Union EU player! Pip pip, tally ho, top hats and tea etc etc
Anyway, here's using mostly similar IOs to yours so the prices should be more or less comparable. Nearly softcapped all positional defences, though I did have to sacrifice a little on Dark regeneration, and hover may be a little slow. Overall better bonuses than my last build, ignore the slotting order.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.81
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Level 50 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Dark Armor
Secondary Power Set: Fiery Melee
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Soul Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Death Shroud -- M'Strk-Acc/Dmg(A), M'Strk-Dmg/Rchg(5), M'Strk-Acc/EndRdx(5), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx(7), M'Strk-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(7), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(31)
Level 1: Scorch -- T'Death-Acc/Dmg(A), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx(9), T'Death-Dmg/Rchg(11), T'Death-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(11), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(13), T'Death-Dam%(21)
Level 2: Dark Embrace -- Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx(A), Aegis-ResDam(13), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(15), Aegis-ResDam/Rchg(15), Aegis-EndRdx/Rchg(43), S'fstPrt-ResKB(50)
Level 4: Combustion -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(9), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(17), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(17), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(19), Oblit-%Dam(19)
Level 6: Obsidian Shield -- ResDam-I(A)
Level 8: Dark Regeneration -- Theft-+End%(A), M'Strk-Acc/EndRdx(25)
Level 10: Murky Cloud -- Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx(A), Aegis-ResDam(21), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(23), S'fstPrt-ResKB(27), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(31)
Level 12: Taunt -- Mocking-Taunt/Rng(A)
Level 14: Cloak of Darkness -- RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(A), DefBuff-I(23), DefBuff-I(33)
Level 16: Kick -- KBDist-I(A)
Level 18: Tough -- Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx(A), Aegis-EndRdx/Rchg(29), Aegis-Psi/Status(29), Aegis-ResDam(33), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(34)
Level 20: Weave -- RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(A), DefBuff-I(34), DefBuff-I(36)
Level 22: Fire Sword -- Mako-Acc/Dmg(A), Mako-Dam%(31), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx(36), Mako-Dmg/Rchg(36), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(37), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(37)
Level 24: Hover -- DefBuff-I(A), DefBuff-I(25), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(27)
Level 26: Build Up -- GSFC-ToHit(A), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg(33), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(34), GSFC-Rchg/EndRdx(46), GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx(48), GSFC-Build%(50)
Level 28: Fire Sword Circle -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(39), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(39), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(40), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40), Oblit-%Dam(40)
Level 30: Combat Jumping -- DefBuff-I(A), DefBuff-I(42)
Level 32: Oppressive Gloom -- Acc-I(A)
Level 35: Incinerate -- Mako-Acc/Dmg(A), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx(37), Mako-Dmg/Rchg(42), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(42), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(43), Mako-Dam%(43)
Level 38: Greater Fire Sword -- Mako-Acc/Dmg(A), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(39), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx(45), Mako-Dmg/Rchg(45), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(46), Mako-Dam%(48)
Level 41: Gloom -- Thundr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(A), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(46), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(50)
Level 44: Maneuvers -- DefBuff-I(A), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(45), DefBuff-I(48)
Level 47: Darkest Night -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 49: Soul Transfer -- RechRdx-I(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 1: Swift -- Flight-I(A)
Level 1: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 1: Health -- Mrcl-Rcvry+(A)
Level 1: Stamina -- EndMod-I(A), EndMod-I(3), EndMod-I(3)
Quote:
This is why I chose Elec Armor for this, as the endurance consumption is too much for DA to handle. I would also strongly advise against sacrificing slots on Dark Regeneration and relying on Hover for defense. Overall too many sacrifices.
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Originally Posted by Signpost
Anyway, here's using mostly similar IOs to yours so the prices should be more or less comparable. Nearly softcapped all positional defences, though I did have to sacrifice a little on Dark regeneration, and hover may be a little slow. Overall better bonuses than my last build, ignore the slotting order.
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Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster
Quote:
Of course, if I were to aim for insp-softcap as you have, I could easily drop both hover and manuevers and throw those slots into Dark Regeneration, and deal with the end problem at the same time. |
Originally Posted by Auroxis
This is why I chose Elec Armor for this, as the endurance consumption is too much for DA to handle. I would also strongly advise against sacrificing slots on Dark Regeneration and relying on Hover for defense. Overall too many sacrifices.
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Quote:
You will just have less resistance and recharge then, and still suffer endurance issues due to your AoE's.|
Originally Posted by Signpost
Of course, if I were to aim for insp-softcap as you have, I could easily drop both hover and manuevers and throw those slots into Dark Regeneration, and deal with the end problem at the same time.
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DA is best when built for S/L/N/E defense, as that's where their resists are lacking and it's easier to fit defense in your build there as DA is tight.
With IO's considered, DA is slighty more survivable, Elec has slighty more offense(and in my case it's cheaper too). That's just how it is in general.
Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster
I'll certainly agree that for pure aggro holding ability Ice is the king. Mine isn't really high enough to have a firm feel for it's endgame potential at 28 but it's fairly solid durability wise. Yes, my Invuln and Shield tanks are tougher at that level, and probably the Icer will lag behind them in the endgame as well based on teaming with high level ice tanks. Still, if you have some team support I see no reason why an Icer wouldn't do the job nicely.
COH has just been murdered by NCSoft. http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes
Folks,
You've made some great suggestions and it was a hard decision. I went with Electric/Electric for a few reasons. There were some good selling points on it as a full set up.
I have pushed it pretty good to get my new tank "Ellektro" up to 19.... pretty much been playing him solid.
I am not buying an I/O's until end game... I just can't afford them and with winter event winding down, I see salvage sales are slowing down. 
The good news is.... I am enjoying the overall tankiness. I've been grouped with several tanks and have seemingly been able to handle as much as, or more than any tank I've been with. BUT as you've all said, playstyle is huge.
I am keeping Lighting field up and taunting as much as I can along the way. At this point I feel even with nothing better than DO's, I can do really well with even just a single defender in the group. My toughest ride from 0-20 has been large, purple groups of Aberrant/Lost Psi damage type enemies.
I am worried about slotting though. I seem to be having issues if I can't get a group with a defender/controller. Hopefully this toon won't start suffering as I get closer to 30 from my lack of influence. (I'd personally just rather kill stuff than play the market.)
I do still think about Dark as I bet it would have been unique. But this guy feels 'ok' so far. Again I may have to investigate slotting. So far (thanks to free fitness which sure is different from old school tanking!) I am running 4 toggles. Thank to free fitness I've pretty much taken every primary as it comes up.
Thanks again for the advice. I did really think it all over, and in the end I was tempted by a lot of suggestions but there's only so many hours in a weekend! I'm trying to stay focused on my Elec/Elec so I can get near 30 by Sunday night and see how he will feel then.
If anyone wants to sprinkle some electric/electric build advice, I'd love to hear it. Otherwise I'll go digging in the forum for it. Thanks again.
(BTW: I do agree it seems many of the tanks can work. I have seen enough poor and good tank play to see how much of this is going to be player specific, and not as much... power choice decision.)
Nekron: Beam Rifle / Poison Corruptor and Slayer of Evil!! (Exalted)
Intergalaktic: Fire / Time Corruptor (Exalted)
As someone who plays every type I really couldn't give a poop which one I am on. It all doable.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
I have an elec/elec, I've really enjoyed it. Easy to make it look awesome, good theme.
Quote:
Thank you.. In the standard game ( not things like MoSTF's etc etc ) You can tank anything with anything. Every set decently built will work well. I have played everything except Stone to 50 and I built my wife's level 50 Stone/SS tank so I am well aware of how Stone works. |
Originally Posted by New Dawn
As someone who plays every type I really couldn't give a poop which one I am on. It all doable.
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There has been nothing yet that I havent been able to tank. Obviously some tanks handle somethings better than others but I can tank everything.
The hard things I can do--- The impossible just take a little bit longer.
If numbers are so much more important than a teammate who is fun to play with, forget about the game altogether and go play with a calculator instead. -Claws and Effect-
Quote:
I'd give the tanking of an MoSTF a shot with any of my Scrappers let alone any tank. Not bragging it just doable.
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Originally Posted by Airhammer
Thank you.. In the standard game ( not things like MoSTF's etc etc ) You can tank anything with anything. Every set decently built will work well. I have played everything except Stone to 50 and I built my wife's level 50 Stone/SS tank so I am well aware of how Stone works.
There has been nothing yet that I havent been able to tank. Obviously some tanks handle somethings better than others but I can tank everything. |
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
Inspirations a plenty.....
Buffs/debuffs.... and a ship loads of inspirations from your belt and mail......
I have resurrected this topic because my tank exploring has been time consuming, and not... great.
I know someone said that it should be a pleasure playing the first 25 levels, but after 6 years of it... I'm tired of those levels. Sorry.
So far, I have worked a Shield/SS tank up to the teens...
An Elec/Elec up to the 20's
Inv/DM up to the 30's
WP/SS up to the 30's.
And I have a Fire/Stone Brute at 50.
So far I don't like some aspects of these tanks....
The elec/elec guy seems okay.... but I don't know about Elec melee. I also am stumped for the build. Electric's Jacob's Ladder, and Chain Induction... well frankly they annoy me. I don't know if I can make the build around those.
Willpower is good, but I just did a Willpower/Dual Blades to 50.
Shield is interesting. I am finding my Dark Melee/Shield scrapper is SOoooo strong, that the tank... I'm not sure about. The Shield tank is relying on not getting hit. I don't think I like that for late game. I am starting to think that I'd rather count on getting hit, and mitigating as much of that damage as possible.... Shield relies on numbers that I can (largely) get with my scrapper. Add my Scrapper's damage (think Soul Drain + Against All odds + Shield Charge... ouch) and the tank feels like a second class citizen.
So I like my Shield/SS tank for 'fun' but not sure about end game, and energy/psi damage... uber Devouring Earth, etc. Like I said I don't want to run from much. Elec seems to have better coverage in resistance while still retaining (fairly easily) soft capped def.
So what's left? I guess I go back to my Elec/Elec tank? I didn't try Dark.... The visuals from it seem... disturbing to me. It could be really good, but I'm burned out on 1-25 leveling.
I'm thinking I gotta re-assess. I've been on good teams with my Shield tank but I think he's going to have late game issues that other (non-defense) tanks won't have. Am I wrong?
Super Strength is fun, but Rage... how annoying is that crash?
Nekron: Beam Rifle / Poison Corruptor and Slayer of Evil!! (Exalted)
Intergalaktic: Fire / Time Corruptor (Exalted)
Quote:
The thing about Elec Melee is that its only great power, Lightning Rod, comes late in your career at 38. Jacob's Ladder and Chain Induction will be an important part of your attacks, so if you don't like them, I'd say stop.
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Originally Posted by _Elektro_
The elec/elec guy seems okay.... but I don't know about Elec melee. I also am stumped for the build. Electric's Jacob's Ladder, and Chain Induction... well frankly they annoy me. I don't know if I can make the build around those.
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Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster
I was afraid someone would say that... .ugh.
See this.. is when the game becomes a grind. You find something out too late. You hit the reset button a few times... grind, grind grind.
I may stick him out. Elec armour has great potential (I think) even without Uber Slotation.
The Shield/SS guy is a fun concept character I have from the 50's style of comics... but I'm starting to lean away from heavy defense based tanks at the moment.
Jacob's Ladder though... it looks like your character is getting ready to take a dump then 'PffffFFFFFFtttttzzzztttt'.... he farts out of his hands. Oddly enough I remember trying to build a brute with elec melee and hating that animatin and SUPER narrow field of the cone. But if it's a very important power.... so be it.. hand farts and all.
Nekron: Beam Rifle / Poison Corruptor and Slayer of Evil!! (Exalted)
Intergalaktic: Fire / Time Corruptor (Exalted)
Shield does fine in later levels. Most of the damage Carnies and such do have a position of some sort, so your defenses will get the job done. The biggest issue on teams, actually, are to hit buffs. So Vengeance stacked Nemesis, Devouring Earth, etc. For those, it's helpful to have things to fall back on. One With the Shield certainly helps (though you want to be proactive with it: don't only fire it off when you're almost defeated already. You should know when things are going bad for to hit buffs). Tough is also nice, and I managed to fit in Aid Self with the new Inherent Fitness, which helps if you need a quick heal between mobs or something, as Shields doesn't have a self heal, just +HP.
The Rage crash is only annoying if you let it be. I oftentimes do not use it on teams so I don't have to pay attention to it, but you can do fine using it on teams. AAO helps for a Shield/SS during those times when you don't have Rage up.
I really like my Shield/SS character, and he's soloed and teamed a lot.
Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
Story Arc: Belated Justice, #88003
Synopsis: Explore the fine line between justice and vengeance as you help a hero of Talos Island bring his friend's murderer to justice.
Grey Pilgrim: Fire/Fire Tanker (50), Victory
I don't need a full softcap to S/L/N/E, due to the rarity of N and my hardcapped res to E, and due to my high S/L resistance. I rather get more offense and more versatility for less inf.