I used to be of the camp that super high defense on FA was a waste of time due to no defense debuff protection. I sorta changed my mind a bit after thinking about it. As long as you can survive the alpha strike (which is what I found to be FAs biggest weakness) you should be ok. Since FA has the ability to kill things really really fast, all you need to do is live long enough to kill them before your defense erodes.
The whole mantra for FA is "kill them before they kill you." Defense is pretty much the best bet. Recharge doesn't help you a great deal because you should be banking on your alpha strike to kill everything but bosses and maybe LTs.
Ideally you should jump in and use Burn+whatever AoEs you have. This will kill minions and LTs for the most part. Heal back whatever damage you took and finish off whatever is left. High S/L defense makes the "jumping in" part a lot more viable.
Quote:
Amen. No amount of +recharge is gonna mitigate that alpha, and nothing should live long enough for you to have to burn them twice |
Originally Posted by Neogumbercules
The whole mantra for FA is "kill them before they kill you." Defense is pretty much the best bet. Recharge doesn't help you a great deal because you should be banking on your alpha strike to kill everything but bosses and maybe LTs.
|
So this got me thinking...
what kind of defense could I cram in a */FA Brute?
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Interesting, not that "playable" but still.
"I have ridden the mighty moon worm!"
-Al Gore
Fiery Aura is only good for farming, I'm cereal
@Caucasiafro
Seems OK to me...
Endurance could be solved with cardiac. Got Rage perma, Punch, Haymaker, KoB and possible Boxing for ST with Burn and FS for a bit of aoe.
Here's the build i have been running and I have to say she is so much fun she has taken over the last month of my playtime. Almost to her Cardiac Radial Boost and the first alpha tier handled almost all of my end issues.
Softcapped to S/L, 8 pts KB protection, and lots of juggling fun!
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Quote:
True, but I like having a bit of recharge along with defense. Helpful all around for any Fiery Aura character. |
Originally Posted by Emberly
Amen. No amount of +recharge is gonna mitigate that alpha, and nothing should live long enough for you to have to burn them twice
|
Anyway, I'm late to this posting party since my account had lapsed over the holidays, but Fiery Aura is quite good. Any set requires knowing its strengths and weaknesses, and as long as you play to those with Fiery Aura, you should be set. My Wall of Fire guide in my sig is for tanks, but a lot of the same methodology works for Brutes and Scrappers, really. Capitalize on your offense, layer your mitigation, make good use of Healing Flames.
Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
Story Arc: Belated Justice, #88003
Synopsis: Explore the fine line between justice and vengeance as you help a hero of Talos Island bring his friend's murderer to justice.
Grey Pilgrim: Fire/Fire Tanker (50), Victory
Looks like i came late to this conversation as well. Too busy getting my Claws/Fire up to 50 and finally my first slotted Incarnate. Yaaaa for me.
Anyways, Fire does have some wholes but as others have pointed out they are pretty easy to fix. I used 3 sets (3 sets?, maybe it is four, not sure) of Reactive Armour which helped a whole bunch. Plus 3 stes of Oblits, a Guasian, and a Shield-Breaker to fill in the other gaps.
Not sure why everyone is talking about 12 KB prot though. I have a steadfast in my Combat JUmp and I seem to do fine with that.
Definately find a spot for tough/weave and if/when you actually get to be a incarnate the 2nd lvl of Cardiac adds a bunch. Totally fixed any End issues I was having as well. Think I have used Consume maybe twice since I slotted it. And that was probably just so I could run off and melt the next group.
Have fun with your fire Brute. I know I am.
Enjoy your day please.
Quote:
This is why I fell in love with mine for the second time. It seems to me I stalled out in the low 20 as well beacuse I didn't want to have to fix the wholes again. I had a fire/fire tank that I did as well.|
Originally Posted by Neogumbercules
Ideally you should jump in and use Burn+whatever AoEs you have. This will kill minions and LTs for the most part. Heal back whatever damage you took and finish off whatever is left. High S/L defense makes the "jumping in" part a lot more viable.
|
I took a little time off, went back and played a bit more and I kept going.
Enjoy your day please.
Quote:
the 12 KB prot is only needed rarely in most things, Nemi staff comes to mind. But in incarnate stuff clocks do KB and thats all 11.5 mag
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Originally Posted by BashfulBanshee
Not sure why everyone is talking about 12 KB prot though.
|
"I have ridden the mighty moon worm!"
-Al Gore
Fiery Aura is only good for farming, I'm cereal
@Caucasiafro
Quote:
Ya, the incarnate stuff does quite a bit of KB. Rikti Pylons too, if you're into that kind of thing.
|
Originally Posted by ultrawatt
the 12 KB prot is only needed rarely in most things, Nemi staff comes to mind. But in incarnate stuff clocks do KB and thats all 11.5 mag
|
OK I didn't actually know that. Still haven't done the new task forces.
I've actually been thinking about getting Acrobatics anyways. I have a couple of powers I don't use and I figured I might as well.
Enjoy your day please.
Again I see it the Fire armor set that used to be playable is now terrible without tight builds that REQUIRE IO's to make it survivable.
Otherwise you are a just a very nice Vengence bait to be used as needed.
The game has changed so much with even minions having status effects. Look at what you people are saying - repeatedly - Fire armor is so bad it will require massive amounts of IO sets to make it equal to other armor sets.
On the plus side - you kill a bunch so the debt will get worked off between bouts of Rise of the Phoenix.
FA isn't suppose to be as survivable as other sets, it's suppose to do damage and it does that very well. Just like shields, it's not as survivable as people make it out to be without IO investment for softcapped defense. FA is far from terrible, it just takes more skill to play than other sets.
[U][URL="http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=251594"][/URL][/U]
I always laugh when people say FA is terrible because they are simply doing something wrong. Even with just one KB prot IO most things should be dead before they kill you. (maybe not romans those ******* hurt) With IOs, not only can you easily act as a tank as well as most other armor sets but you also kill things as fast if not faster than some blasters, and a hell of a lot faster than any armor set other than MAYBE shield can even dream of.
"I have ridden the mighty moon worm!"
-Al Gore
Fiery Aura is only good for farming, I'm cereal
@Caucasiafro
Delusional.
You can't kill faster than a blaster on a tank. You can kill SAFER.
I see the old standby - LRN2PLY - card pulled again. I wrote one of the first Fire/Ice Tanker guides over 6 years ago. I know all the tricks to tweak the most out of one and yet.......they are squishy compared even to my Broadsword/Willpower scrapper.
A straight Fire/Fire has no mitigation of knockback/down or other debuffs. It is a straight in your face fight. Everything hits you without buffs and if you are slowed in recharge you are dead.
You can deny that Council, Rikti, Lost, Carnies, Outcast Ice guys and any number of minions, Lts and Bosses now have -recharge?
They will slow you and without Healing Flames you will die. It is helpful to take Aid Self as well on a Fire tank for exactly these occasions. Even then it is acknowledged by the Devs it will happen when they give you a Tier 9 as a self rez. Look don't blow smoke up people's nether regions.
It is a serviceable set given experience and plenty of Influence for the IO sets to plug the gaping holes in Fire armor:
Knockback
Zero defense
Slows stopping healing
Immobilize
Massive end usage as you power toggles:
Fire Shield
Plasma Shield
Tough
Weave
Combat Jump
Blazing Aura (optional but important part of your damage)
Can a Fire armor character be fun? Obviously but don't oversell the product.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades
Delusional.
You can't kill faster than a blaster on a tank. You can kill SAFER. I see the old standby - LRN2PLY - card pulled again. I wrote one of the first Fire/Ice Tanker guides over 6 years ago. I know all the tricks to tweak the most out of one and yet.......they are squishy compared even to my Broadsword/Willpower scrapper. A straight Fire/Fire has no mitigation of knockback/down or other debuffs. It is a straight in your face fight. Everything hits you without buffs and if you are slowed in recharge you are dead. You can deny that Council, Rikti, Lost, Carnies, Outcast Ice guys and any number of minions, Lts and Bosses now have -recharge? They will slow you and without Healing Flames you will die. It is helpful to take Aid Self as well on a Fire tank for exactly these occasions. Even then it is acknowledged by the Devs it will happen when they give you a Tier 9 as a self rez. Look don't blow smoke up people's nether regions. It is a serviceable set given experience and plenty of Influence for the IO sets to plug the gaping holes in Fire armor: Knockback Zero defense Slows stopping healing Immobilize Massive end usage as you power toggles: Fire Shield Plasma Shield Tough Weave Combat Jump Blazing Aura (optional but important part of your damage) Can a Fire armor character be fun? Obviously but don't oversell the product. |
Ok, first off /Fire (secondary) is someting brutes and scrappers can get, tanks get Fire/ (primary). So im talking about brutes and scrappers here.
And on an FA brute or scrapper, depending on the primary, it is very likely you can kill just as fast if not faster than SOME blasters. No way your gonna be clearing mobs faster than a good Fire/fire blaster but a Sonic/Dev or some of the other low AoE blasters, yes i could see them killing that fast if not faster
But yes, before you get some IOs for def -rech can be a ***** and you do have a varity of just simply stupid holes, however burn does gives immobilize protection, but they can easily be filled without even useing IOs. But aid self on a fire? WTF
Never found end useage to be that big a deal though because of consume, its not great but is still very helpful ine bigger mobs. I wouldnt say FA is an end god or anything but its no worse of than some other armor sets.
So maybe i am "overselling the product."
Oh yeah, you get FE :P
"I have ridden the mighty moon worm!"
-Al Gore
Fiery Aura is only good for farming, I'm cereal
@Caucasiafro
Quote:
This is the Brute forums. Yes, my SS/Fire can kill faster than a lot of Blasters.|
Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades
You can't kill faster than a blaster on a tank. You can kill SAFER.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades
It is a serviceable set given experience and plenty of Influence for the IO sets to plug the gaping holes in Fire armor
|
Knockback - Acrobatics or 1 -kb IO
Slows stopping healing - Temp Protection
Immobilize - Combat Jumping/Burn
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades
Massive end usage as you power toggles
|
And don't forget Consume.
[U][URL="http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=251594"][/URL][/U]
Again I say it - you reach for IO's in every occasion when you speak of a Fire armor character.
Try it on a second build - go out and buy JUST SO's. Then because you have so very many holes in the armor you end up running all of these:
Fire shield
Plasma shield
Combat jump
Acrobatics
Tough
Weave
Blazing Aura
(likely Hasten as well)
Now try a mission at +1x8 versus say - Council. You will be in big trouble VERY quickly. Even with Temperature Protection they will slow your heal and you will die.
Now if you have a Cold or FF buff you are all set! Then yes you are indeed a killing machine.
You will see the difference when one Tank/Brute/Scrapper can perform well with SO's and one basically requires IO's to have some level of equality. You are argueing that Fire armor is great - I am saying NOT out of the Box it's not - only after serious usage of IO's does it become better.
Tell me of another Armor with this issue?
Quote:
Imo, both SD and SR are kind of sucky before you get softed capped (the former having just plain old evil end problems), oh and EA.
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Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades
Tell me of another Armor with this issue?
|
"I have ridden the mighty moon worm!"
-Al Gore
Fiery Aura is only good for farming, I'm cereal
@Caucasiafro
Quote:
We talking no inspirations and team help?|
Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades
Now try a mission at +1x8 versus say - Council. You will be in big trouble VERY quickly. Even with Temperature Protection they will slow your heal and you will die.
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Cause I wanna know what secondaries can handle that
I'm pretty sure my /SR, my /Elec and my /WP would get curbstomped on +1/x8 without IOs.
"You will die"
no **** sherlock
I wanted to respond to this topic in length but I don't have time right now. I'll just pop in and say this. Lots of Brutes would have "massive" end usage and survivability problems against a +1/8 Council mission at level 50 on SOs. Or any level for that matter. Off the top of my head:
WP (you're ok if you can take the alpha)
SD
SR (granted you don't need IOs to soft cap SR but it takes a ton of pool powers)
Elec
Dark Armor (lots of energy type attacks with council and TONS of end usage)
So this issue isn't very exclusive to /FA. That level of difficulty was really only implemented to challenge players who did go out and build an IO based character. I'll go into detail later. Off to the comedy show!
Good to see you guys still discussing this. I've come to the conclusion that it's not that the set is squishy (KM/FA) but it's the "feel" of it for me. I certainly understand building to compensate for holes in a set. Invulnerability, SR, etc. all have holes which I've considered in my builds and those characters have flourished. I enjoy playing them and improving their builds as I can.
The feel of /FA just doesn't satisfy whatever it is I look for in a melee set. I can't get into /dark either to my consternation (the concepts I've had to push aside because of it!). Shield is a wonderful set that a lot of my friends adore. Not for me. But I had a friend cringe when they found out I'd leveled a DM/Reg scrap to 50. They hated that combo. It's just a matter of taste or as I call it, "feel".
I am encouraged to roll more brutes now. You guys have been so helpful and this discussion has been so interesting to read. Now, if I could only learn to love /dark, I'd be realllllly happy.
Let's say a teammate has Fulcrum Shifted your team to the damage cap. Whee! Neither you nor any other Brute with your melee set can do higher damage than (X) now...BUT Fiery Aura Brutes can add the FE damage bonus on top of that. Even Shield Charge (can) bump up against that damage cap when boosted enough...but THIS Brute goes to ELEVEN.
If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
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The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog