How best to deal with end drain?


Adeon Hawkwood

 

Posted

I was on a KM/Regen in the past few days. The only thing that was really killing me was end drain from, say, Mu or some of the Freaks.

Is there anyway to deal with it?

Thanks!


 

Posted

I cant think of anything besides building defense into a build so that attacks miss more often. Regen really doesnt have any -end resistance tools that I can think of.


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Posted

Blue inspirations


 

Posted

Roll a Dark Armor Scrapper.....


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Posted

When I'm playing a character whose powersets offer no protection against endurance drain, I do one of the following:

(1) Use stealth to sneak up on the endurance drainer and take him out before he can attack me;

(2) Use a mitigating power (either one of your permanent powers or a temp) to neutralize the endurance drainer so I can take him out safely (for example, stunning him with beanbag);

(3) Use Teleport Foe to beam the endurance drainer into a death zone to take him out of commission. (i.e. into a mine field laid by a character with Trip Mines)

The main point is to take stock of your assets (primaries, secondaries, APPs, and temps) and adjust your tactics to take out your priority target before he can make your character miserable.


 

Posted

Aside from carrying blues and/or IO'ing for defense, you could try slotting a Performance Shifter: Chance for +Endurance in both Stamina and Quick Recovery. So that even if your recovery is redlined, there's still a chance to get some end back from your procs. It's not 100% reliable, but it's better than nothing.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison View Post
Hire a Force Fielder.
or a Stormy. O2 has nice end drain protection.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Psylenz View Post
or a Stormy. O2 has nice end drain protection.
Yeah the main disadvantage is the 60 second duration. It's generally impractical for the Stormy to keep it on everyone 100% of the time.


 

Posted

My basic solution is always to deal with the problematic mob first, and of course a mob that's problematic for one character may be cake for another. In the case of end drain I take out that mob first, if I'm on a squishy and there's a mezzer in the group I take out that mob first and so forth.

There's ways to handle problem mobs, you just need to think about your advantages on a given character and play accordingly. In some cases that solution will be your inspiration tray, in others it may be taking out the problem NOW before they start getting the better of you.

As an example, Carnies are a problem for a lot of characters thanks to their mez and death-drain. Some characters I make sure to kill them from range to avoid that drain, for others I rely on high energy/positional defenses to avoid it. My BS/Shield scrapper for example actually gathers them up into large groups for my AOE's and Shield Charge since very few of the drains end up hitting.

Play to your strengths and always focus on your problem mobs first.


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Posted

Base empowerment buffs (recovery/endurance protection) and crafting a Recovery Serum should solve almost all of your problems.


 

Posted

Others mentioned it, but I'll repeat it. The single best way to deal with end drain (or other problem mobs) is to take them out fast. If you can't take out all the problem mobs in your opening attack, prioritize them. Psi damage should be high on your priorities to drop NOW too usually.

Mu are a huge pain in the freaking bum. Not just cause of their end drain, but they seem to have higher then normal accuracy or to-hit too. They can reliably hit Madam Enigma through defense for some reason. Plus they are immune to some crowd control options such as knockback/down. Plus every attack nukes your end recovery by half. And this can stack for cascading recovery failure. Enough mu hitting you can bring your recovery down to 0 or lower I'd imagine.

Malta Sappers are even worse. They not only end drain for huge amounts, but their melee sap is also a hold. Lethal for anyone who gets detoggled, even tanks. Carnies as was mentioned are dangerous due to the on death aoe drain.

It's one reason why I seriously dislike fighting Arachnos in the 40's on anything but a mastermind. And one of two reasons I hate malta arcs. The other reason is the fact that all malta arcs include KoA missions. Talk about caltrop hell.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Madam_Enigma View Post
It's one reason why I seriously dislike fighting Arachnos in the 40's on anything but a mastermind. And one of two reasons I hate malta arcs. The other reason is the fact that all malta arcs include KoA missions. Talk about caltrop hell.
I find Malta to be one of the toughest mobs in the game on most characters... Sappers are pretty self explanatory but the Gunslingers have holds and then there's the Stun Of Doom that other mobs throw making these a nightmare for most powersets. About the only characters I have who don't have problems with them (barring massive numbers) are my soft capped BS/Shield scrapper and my perma-PA Ill/Rad controller. Almost everything else I've played has problems to one degree or another with Malta.

Knives generally aren't anywhere near as deadly as Malta to most characters but they ARE severely annoying stacking umpteen caltrops dropping you to the slow floor and seeing through stealth and invisibility.

Arachnos are tough, no question. They aren't in the same league as Malta though for most characters. I've found that the Mu are much less dangerous to a mature build than they are to lowbies and most of the other mobs aren't as nasty as, say, Malta. Admittedly they have quite a variation of damage types so it's likely most characters will find something problematic; still I haven't had lots of problems with them. My BS/Shield scrapper just plows through them at +2/8 without problem; my Ill/Rad can handle them with ease at +3/4 and my Fire/EM blaster can, with caution, mow them down fairly well at +0/6.

If I were to list what are, in my opinion, the most problematic mobs in the game that list would include:
*Ruarluu, Nemesis, Malta, **Carnies, **Arachnos, ***Devouring Earth

*Almost EVERYONE will find Ruarluu tough with massive tohit and varied damage types.

**Most characters have issues but there are some who find them on par with Council and Freakshow in difficulty.

***The Quartz Eminators are the true danger with DE; they're extremely dangerous to defense based characters while resistance based characters find them easy to handle.


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Posted

Try fighting them on a crab spider. The psi damage ignores your resistances entirely, and is very likely to hit (only 14.5% psi def after all), The mu are probably going to ignore your 30%ish ranged defense by spamming cones and aoe, thus nuking your end bar and recovery. Night widows love their smoke grenades too, very annoying.And then there's the bane spiders. Gods the bane spiders.... About the only arachnos type in the 40's that isn't a pita are the non-psi spiders and the crabs. But of course both love their cones too. Best hope is to alpha them with a omega maneuver and venom grenade, then hope it actually hits most of them. Course it always seems to miss the mu. I'm bringing my crab spider hero side just to get away from the constant missions against arachnos.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Madam_Enigma View Post
Try fighting them on a crab spider. The psi damage ignores your resistances entirely, and is very likely to hit (only 14.5% psi def after all), The mu are probably going to ignore your 30%ish ranged defense by spamming cones and aoe, thus nuking your end bar and recovery. Night widows love their smoke grenades too, very annoying.And then there's the bane spiders. Gods the bane spiders.... About the only arachnos type in the 40's that isn't a pita are the non-psi spiders and the crabs. But of course both love their cones too. Best hope is to alpha them with a omega maneuver and venom grenade, then hope it actually hits most of them. Course it always seems to miss the mu. I'm bringing my crab spider hero side just to get away from the constant missions against arachnos.
I really hadn't noticed them being all that dangerous when I've faced them to tell you the truth... yeah they're quite a bit tougher than the average bear but they're easier than Malta and frequently easier depending on the character than Nemesis.

I've run level 50 Arachnos missions solo with BS/Shield, Spine/Regen and Fire/Shield scrappers, Inv/Stone & Shield/Fire tankers, Mind/Kin, Ill/Rad and Fire/Rad controllers, Fire/EM and Archery/EM blasters as well as Rad/Rad and Dark/Dark defenders. That's a fairly diverse grouping and while Arachnos are unquestionably harder on some than others all were doable.

I suppose part of it is that I always prioritize any problematic mobs into "kill it NOW", "Kill it next" and "Kill it last" categories if the group is dangerous to the character I'm playing. If something is really a problem, well, that's what my insp tray is for. Arachnos really are tough on my defenders but they're cake for my controllers and my shield scrappers. They're much tougher on the Spine/Regen but I still typically get to the far end of the map alive and with a pathway of death and destruction behind me. Frankly my melee characters typically start at point A on the map and go straight to the end without worrying a lot about the mobs. If I get into trouble I'll retreat (Run Away! Run Away!) to pop a green, hit a heal or otherwise recover then it's back to the salt mines.

I also set my difficulty according to what a character can handle and if I hit a group that I have a problem with I reset my difficulty accordingly. There's no point pounding your head against a wall of +3/8 mobs who are handing you your butt when you can reset to +1/3 or whatever level you need to make it through in one piece reasonably quickly.


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Posted

Part of why arachnos in the 40's is such a pain for crab spiders is... fully half the enemies for them in the 40's are a 'kill it NOW' type for various reasons. Either cause they ignore a crab spider's resistance, ignore the defense, hit like a freaking space shuttle crashing into your head, or are just tough as nails. At least, that's been my experience. They were easy to fight up until I got to the 40's for some reason.

I imagine an invuln tanker or scrapper would have a lot of trouble with them due to all the end drain, recovery debuffing, and psi damage. Never tried personally. With Super Reflexes they are merely annoying, not hard. Same with regen. But for my crab spider they are a huge pain.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood View Post
Yeah the main disadvantage is the 60 second duration. It's generally impractical for the Stormy to keep it on everyone 100% of the time.
Usually upto 3 ppl have the aggro, so just them.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Angelic_EU View Post
I was on a KM/Regen in the past few days. The only thing that was really killing me was end drain from, say, Mu or some of the Freaks.

Is there anyway to deal with it?

Thanks!
With the Super Stunner Freaks, you really want to defeat them at a range. They seem to have a melee range thing that just destroys your endurence when they revive, but they don't revive at all if you defeat them from range.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by MajorDecoy View Post
With the Super Stunner Freaks, you really want to defeat them at a range. They seem to have a melee range thing that just destroys your endurence when they revive, but they don't revive at all if you defeat them from range.
Not quite true. I've seen freakshow of all stripes revive no matter where I am. I've ran off, found the hostage, and then ran into multiple freak stunners who I'd defeated 10 minutes earlier and they revived after I'd ran off. Since they all seem to have selected powers from /regen, think they all have Revive from regen. Just don't always use it. Could probably use AE to check though.


"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern." Lord Acton

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Posted

end reduce enhancements on all your powers, stack one onto them at first..

then double..

then triple..

till you can't lose any end


 

Posted

Which does nothing about the OP's problem. The OP's problem isn't "My powers cost too much endurance". It's "Enemies are end draining me to the point I can't do anything". Two completely different problems all together.


"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern." Lord Acton

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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Madam_Enigma View Post
Not quite true. I've seen freakshow of all stripes revive no matter where I am. I've ran off, found the hostage, and then ran into multiple freak stunners who I'd defeated 10 minutes earlier and they revived after I'd ran off. Since they all seem to have selected powers from /regen, think they all have Revive from regen. Just don't always use it. Could probably use AE to check though.

The standard Freakshow revive is different than the Super Stunner one, though. The SS, when they come back (and it's automatic if there's even one person in range), shows balls of red electricity coming from each person in range into their body as they rise from the dead and float in the air. This lowers the recovery of every affected character to 2% higher than your current end cost, which is something I noticed on a Sister Psyche TF last night, where my Katana/Dark scrapper was originally running with all the toggles on, but decided to run most of the TF with only a couple. With all the toggles running, the recovery was lowered to around 1.59. With only a couple running, it was lowered to .59.
The amount of people in range affects the health and end of the SS when they rise. If there isnt anyone in range, the power fires off harmlessly, and the SS does not get resurrected.

The standard revive is a chance effect on any freakshow, regardless of the amount of people in range. There's a crackle of electricity around their body, and they stand up from a prone position. It doesnt affect those that are in range, and they always revive with full health and half end.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cainus View Post
The standard revive is a chance effect on any freakshow, regardless of the amount of people in range. There's a crackle of electricity around their body, and they stand up from a prone position. It doesnt affect those that are in range, and they always revive with full health and half end.
i don't know the percentage, but they don't always rez. definitely not a bad idea to wait until freak tanks disappear before just running off or forgetting about them. nothing worse than defeating the tank then switch into the other mobs and then have a freak tank clobber you from nowhere.


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Posted

From the OP, I can't tell if we're talking Stalker or Scrapper. (KM/Regen could be either).

If Stalker, it's pretty easy - AS the end drainer.

If Scrapper, I'd invest in a Stealth IO and try to eventually make myself fully invisible (i.e. Super Speed or Stealth from Concealment). No, you won't get a Stalker's mega crit, but you will avoid the potshots mobs take as you get into melee range. I don't know KM very well, but I understand some attacks have a good chance to stun, open up with that and maybe you'll get lucky. You can eventually take a hold from an epic pool. It wasn't clear from the OP what level we're talking about, but with Freaks I'm going to assume 20-40ish (yes I know Freaks show up after 40). So for me, when I'm playing my DM/SD scrap fighting Malta, I've got a bind to find the Sapper, I'm fully invisible and I queue Char to fire as soon as the Sapper is in range. If I hit he can die in the Soul Drain + Shield Charge combo like everybody else, if I miss the hold I take him out quickly then go about my business.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soul_Stormer View Post
i don't know the percentage, but they don't always rez. definitely not a bad idea to wait until freak tanks disappear before just running off or forgetting about them. nothing worse than defeating the tank then switch into the other mobs and then have a freak tank clobber you from nowhere.
No, I didnt mean that they always rez. But when they do, they always rez at full health. The Super Stunner rez is different in that their health and endurance is based on the number of targets.