So I roled a DP/EM Blaster a few days ago and he's now 27. I am not entirely familiar with blasters (this is the first to get past 24 that I've had) but I'm not seeing the weak. It may not be the uber blaster but I've had no problems decimating entire spawns with my AOE and cones. This is the highest I've ever got a blaster and I'm quite enjoying it.
I generally just pop BU, hit my aoe and then cone and clean up the few stragglers left. I have bonesmasher and executioners shot to two shot some bosses.
I barely ever use any ammo besides incindeary.
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That's because the weak is pretty much limited to Empty Clips - and then only because of its activation time compared to the other Blaster cones (its damage is the same as Howl & Buckshot, for example) - and its mostly Lethal damage (a late-game concern).
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Originally Posted by Toony
So I roled a DP/EM Blaster a few days ago and he's now 27. I am not entirely familiar with blasters (this is the first to get past 24 that I've had) but I'm not seeing the weak.
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Yup, it does have a few longer animations, but people have made mountains out of those molehills quite a bit. I do notice the difference between Empty Clips and Buckshot, but the net effect on how well my DP/EM plays compared to my AR/EM is pretty minimal. They play different, but they get the job done.
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Originally Posted by JD_Gumby
That's because the weak is pretty much limited to Empty Clips - and then only because of its activation time compared to the other Blaster cones (its damage is the same as Howl & Buckshot, for example) - and its mostly Lethal damage (a late-game concern).
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Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
Story Arc: Belated Justice, #88003
Synopsis: Explore the fine line between justice and vengeance as you help a hero of Talos Island bring his friend's murderer to justice.
Grey Pilgrim: Fire/Fire Tanker (50), Victory
In case there are any more DP haters left in this thread I just wanna say
DUCK
That certainly is a cool exclamation point on the thread....
I'm making the final turn in the build. I'm not too concerned about which Incarnate ability to take.... I'm more concerned with the final build going into that.....
The life of a blaster, period, is bloody, and hard fought. My scrapper(s), all of them, can moonwalk through missions that would make my blaster pee his pistols.
I have gone through several builds, and I really should make a guide, but I'm too lazy right now. The truth is, you need to spend a lot of influence on the AT period. It really does depend on your expectation, but it's worth noting as a Dual Pistol blaster, you're going to be in fairly close for a large portion of the battle.
I have two non-purple IO builds I'm thinking about... I have tuned one with full leadership pool, and the heal, and I have another build that drops the medicine pool, and goes leadership/fighting.
The survivability goes up substantially in the fighting pool build, but no heal .And I'm finding you can play one of two ways.... assume you are going to get hit, and get ready to have a healthy diet of Luck insps, and self heals... or assume the role of a light scrapper, and hope your defense holds out, and the light damage resists hold out long enough to get a few green insps.
Personally I see the value in both builds, but I am preferring the build with no Fighting, because I can combine luck insps constantly because I require no other inspirations... my endurance use is super low and I self heal. I recharge a lot so can start 90% of the battles with HoB and get the 10% def boost, suck back a purple and I'm just about capped in the 3 positional defenses anyway. The heal can be quick, and handy with well over 400 hitpoints healed at a time and an interrupt reducer.
The other build requires more management.... but is more durable. But you're still going to get hit, so I am leaning towards the heal one.
But I just hit 50 so we'll see if that changes shortly. 
Nekron: Beam Rifle / Poison Corruptor and Slayer of Evil!! (Exalted)
Intergalaktic: Fire / Time Corruptor (Exalted)
Have you looked at flash freeze from the Ice epic pool? Its a 25' radius sleep that you can stick the call of the sandman proc in for a self heal. Its a 10% chance of a 5% heal. Not much, but I am combining it with my high def build to do 2 things. One as an opener to sleep all the mobs before I run in and confuse (DP/MM) and hail of bullets on them and as a small green insp saver to top me off before a new spawn.
So flash freeze (with heal proc) + frozen armor for some S/L def and hoar frost for a 60% heal and capped HPs every 160 seconds on a 145% recharge build. On paper the build looks closer to a scrapper (unIOed) than a blaster. Of course thats all paper right now until I hit 50. And since I have MM as my secondary I can get insane regen with 80% uptime.
I hope one of the Incarnate powers gives mez protection. That is pretty much the last whole every blaster suffers from.
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Originally Posted by _Elektro_
I have gone through several builds, and I really should make a guide, but I'm too lazy right now. The truth is, you need to spend a lot of influence on the AT period. It really does depend on your expectation, but it's worth noting as a Dual Pistol blaster, you're going to be in fairly close for a large portion of the battle. |
This. You spend far more to get blasters up to good, and its very hard to move them much past good. There was a thread a little while ago where someone was saying how wonderful blasters were and they had what was between a 6 and 10 billion inf build to do it.
Yes I have to remind myself to stick my blaster out sometimes.
I made it to 50 and beyond.... because I love Pistols. It's a lot of fun for me. Otherwise the AT is difficult. I mean I understand with my controllers I am resigned to a role. But a Blaster is supposed to be the damage AT? I don't think so.
Almost anything my blaster can do, my scrapper can do better. And for 1/3 the influence. My Blaster has broke me! I am still trying to finish a set of Panacea that are my last step before entering purple land.
My Scrapper? I have an uber build for him, but it's more about tweaking a percent or two here or there. He still whips through missions at +3/+4 x 8. The damage he does shames my blaster. And he does it waaay cheaper.
Vhaz is my first blaster to 50, ever. He was/is a lot of fun, but the AT could use a tweak IMHO.
I'm trying to retire my scrapper now as the blaster takes a lot longer to do certain things with and I want to get into the post-50 world of TF's, etc.... finish my Alpha slotting. It's a tougher world as a blaster, no doubt. But I still enjoy him.
Nekron: Beam Rifle / Poison Corruptor and Slayer of Evil!! (Exalted)
Intergalaktic: Fire / Time Corruptor (Exalted)
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Read the first paragraph in a serious fashion and consider it (it is funny too, but also see it from a different angle).|
Originally Posted by _Elektro_
Almost anything my blaster can do, my scrapper can do better. And for 1/3 the influence.
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I bet your blaster is better at being team dependent than your scrapper. I bet your blaster is better at dying quickly than your scrapper. I bet your blaster is better at having a mistake by you or your team alter your tactics. I bet your blaster is better at having an add or lucky shot by an enemy alter your tactics. I bet your blaster is better at dealing damage from 30 to 80 feet away than your scrapper.
Not everyone values being team dependent. Not everyone values being a piece of glass. Not everyone values their (and often their team's) tactical choices to matter as much as they do on a blaster. But does that mean those things are valueless? Is there a large enough segment of the playerbase that values those things enough to actively engage the "weakness" of the AT head on?
People approach the survivability factor from the standpoint that of course everyone will want to play the class/AT that is more survivable. That does not seem to be the case, so maybe game designers should feel OK if a class ends up being mechanically weaker, and yet ridiculously popular. Obviously, you don't want certain aspects to be too far out of whack (leveling and item acquisition,for instance), but perhaps the 'weak' class has its place, if it is done right.
The blaster AT was not designed to be weaker than other ATs, but it ended up there in the effort to improve tankers and scrappers in I2 and I3 (and really even before that, it just became more apparent as time went on). In I5 they upped the survivability slightly and added more damage, to help counter those facts. That didn't stop blasters from dying in droves (nor did it stop people from playing them in droves). They had another chance to stop them from dying so much in I11. They chose instead another path (maybe one they hoped would help lower the death rate, while still retaining the squishy feel (a steep challenge indeed)). Then they made death nearly irrelevant (the real blaster 'fix', and one which was also suggested by the playerbase).
Then they released VEATs, which had all the features many had asked for blasters. Some status protection, but less than scrappers. Range and melee attacks. Maybe some more control. Possibly some debuff. How about a little bit of defense? Real pets could help blasters, maybe make Voltaic Sentinel and Auto Turret more like real pets? Nah, how about you take Spider bots instead?
For everyone who wanted to play a blaster, but wanted it to be more like a scrapper, they made VEATs. IMO, it was a conscious and brilliant choice (although it has taken a long time for me to feel that way). Having both ATs is likely a good idea (and I think they are both very popular ATs). The only drawback for me is I can't play a Fire, Ice, Punch, or Elec version. VEATs have solid projectiles, Nrg blasts, mace, claws, poison, crab legs, and Psi powers covered though.
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
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Really? How are you building your Blaster? The builds I've seen you put up should not be drastically more expensive than most Scrapper builds I have seen out there. As it is, my Blasters spend far less on their builds than my Scrappers do. I don't have to worry about recharge too much on my Blasters, as it doesn't take much to let them have a solid chain that does good damage. Ranged and AOE defense is also significantly cheaper to get from sets than S/L, something most Scrapper builds are going to do. And Scrappers love recharge. Even if you don't need the most uber chain like some Scrappers do, it's usually worth going for more recharge on a Scrapper than on a Blaster... and sets with +recharge are generally on the spendy side. |
Originally Posted by _Elektro_
Almost anything my blaster can do, my scrapper can do better. And for 1/3 the influence. My Blaster has broke me! I am still trying to finish a set of Panacea that are my last step before entering purple land.
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I can see the issue if you're thinking you NEED a Panacea set. I don't have have anyone with a PvP set (Tanks, Scrappers, Brute, Controllers, Blasters, etc.), so that makes me wonder how much of this is really a build difference between the ATs, and how much of it is your approach to your own builds.
I don't solo any x8 missions with my Blasters, but I don't do that with any of my characters, either. I'd find those missions to be far too long, to be honest. My Blasters do solo missions set to x3-x4 quite often (though I turn it down when I fight Resistance in the 40s... darn phase cheating buggers), which is about how I like all of my characters to play. My Tanks and Scrappers are obviously far more survivable than the Blasters, but I know their builds are far more expensive. I usually am able to buy stuff for my Tankers and Scrappers from merits my Blasters save up, as I save my merits for really expensive recipes like Numina's Unique, LoTG +recharge, Kinetic Combat, etc. My Energy/Energy Blaster is 46 right now and has purchased a Numina's and two LoTG's with his merits, and he'll be able to help my 39 Kin/Dark Scrapper buy some more Kinetic Combats by the time he's 50. That Kin/Dark has a quite expensive build, so he needs the help.
So you can see I'm not exactly skimping on my Blasters, either.
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Originally Posted by StratoNexus
For everyone who wanted to play a blaster, but wanted it to be more like a scrapper, they made VEATs. IMO, it was a conscious and brilliant choice (although it has taken a long time for me to feel that way). Having both ATs is likely a good idea (and I think they are both very popular ATs). The only drawback for me is I can't play a Fire, Ice, Punch, or Elec version. VEATs have solid projectiles, Nrg blasts, mace, claws, poison, crab legs, and Psi powers covered though.
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Really, almost all the villain ATs are clearly learned from the successes and mistakes of the hero ATs. Anyway, I'd still say the two ATs are quite different. I don't think I would have liked Blasters if they had ended up where VEATs are. I've tried VEATs... and while I can see why people like them, I just find them bland. Different variation on the damage and support concept, I guess.
Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
Story Arc: Belated Justice, #88003
Synopsis: Explore the fine line between justice and vengeance as you help a hero of Talos Island bring his friend's murderer to justice.
Grey Pilgrim: Fire/Fire Tanker (50), Victory
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Originally Posted by StratoNexus
Not everyone values being team dependent. Not everyone values being a piece of glass. Not everyone values their (and often their team's) tactical choices to matter as much as they do on a blaster. But does that mean those things are valueless? Is there a large enough segment of the playerbase that values those things enough to actively engage the "weakness" of the AT head on?
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I remember an old piece 60 minutes did on Galudet University, (A university specializing in education for the hard of hearing). The part that made an impression on me was a faction of the student body was resentful of techniques being developed that could potentially restore or grant hearing. Not commenting on the validity of either yours or their argument they just seem similar and if you have a large enough sample size you can always find completely stunning data points.
I do know I see less blasters around in searches even fewer on the teams I play on (at least some of that is attributable to me not playing mine as much). Why ? More people doing better builds ? More people wanting to play better performance archetypes ? Simple need to allocate resources ? Inadequate sampling on my part ? People that play blasters also turn on hide ? Don't know, you can fill in your own blank there.
I know I don't agree that veats are the less breakable blasters. I think that is incredible disservice to whoever thought them up. Some of how they feel is certainly based on blaster complaints. Range is a defense for them. They do have range and real mez protection. Thats where it ends, and the veat concept is far deeper than that.
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I don't think it is a disservice at all (I called it brilliant, after all). Whether on purpose or by simple chance, the same time VEATs were in development is when the blaster defiance thread was started. Even if they were not purposely mining that thread for VEAT ideas, it is only natural that as they were thinking about VEATs and how to fix blasters at the same time, some of it would end up influencing VEATs.
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Originally Posted by Another_Fan
I know I don't agree that veats are the less breakable blasters. I think that is incredible disservice to whoever thought them up. Some of how they feel is certainly based on blaster complaints. Range is a defense for them. They do have range and real mez protection. Thats where it ends, and the veat concept is far deeper than that.
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Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
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Solo or teamed? Scrappers can solo a given mob with a cheaper build than any Blaster but on teams with decent aggro control (or heavy buffs) many Blasters put out a ton more AoE damage than any Scrapper. Some don't, like Ice or Psi, but a lot of them do. And it's dirt cheap to do so since a team build needs no real defense, just good solid enhancement values, some recovery, and some recharge. You only need expensive builds on a Blaster if you plan to solo hard targets, since in a decent group you just don't get hit that often and you can generally kill the one or two things that aggroed on you when it happens.|
Originally Posted by _Elektro_
Almost anything my blaster can do, my scrapper can do better. And for 1/3 the influence. My Blaster has broke me! I am still trying to finish a set of Panacea that are my last step before entering purple land.
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(By the way, why use a Panacea set? Doctored Wounds is about a thousand times cheaper, also has recharge, and the Panacea proc is of limited usefulness since a Miracle and Numina's should cover any endurance issues and the Panacea heal is only equal to about 20% regen over time.)
Cascade, level 50 Blaster (NRG/NRG since before it was cool)
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I really don't know hot to say this because I think video game bragging is for idiots but that being said, I go +4 x8 with my DM Shield scrapper. There are certain enemies I won't do that on, but I also do not go below +3 x8. Carnie are the worst, and the 'new' uber DE are just the Kryptonite to defense.|
I don't solo any x8 missions with my Blasters, but I don't do that with any of my characters, either. I'd find those missions to be far too long, to be honest. So you can see I'm not exactly skimping on my Blasters, either. |
And honestly... it doesn't take long at all... not at all. The lethargic slotting I have is all the proof I need of the difference between these two AT's.
And on the total other end of the spectrum? My blaster is doing +1 x3 with relative ease, but +2 gets hairy..... too hairy, and I find I have to be too selective.
For the record, I am talking solo here. My blaster build is based on damage and recharge and in a team he is literally... fantastic. I get really good feedback on him, and I have HoB up very quickly. The AoE combo is fantastic in teams.
But to put my DM/Shield against my DP/EM blaster? That's really, really stretching it. They are in two totally different universes.
Nekron: Beam Rifle / Poison Corruptor and Slayer of Evil!! (Exalted)
Intergalaktic: Fire / Time Corruptor (Exalted)
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I agree totally. The problem is when I go out for high end loot the blaster is stuck with table scraps. The purple recipes/shards I get with my scrapper is... like winning a lottery compared to my poor blaster. Which is something I accept. The blaster is the wannabe, and the scrapper simply IS what ever he wants. He does just about anything without hesitation.|
Originally Posted by StrykerX
Solo or teamed? Scrappers can solo a given mob with a cheaper build than any Blaster but on teams with decent aggro control (or heavy buffs) many Blasters put out a ton more AoE damage than any Scrapper.
(By the way, why use a Panacea set? Doctored Wounds is about a thousand times cheaper, also has recharge, and the Panacea proc is of limited usefulness since a Miracle and Numina's should cover any endurance issues and the Panacea heal is only equal to about 20% regen over time.) |
On the Panacea, originally I wanted a build with NO regard to cost. But this isn't going to happen I can see. So originally I thought I wanted to avoid doing too many 5% bonuses.... I can see it's just not going to happen. My build is heavily built around recharge for soloing, as well as teams. I have since made the swap to Doctored Wounds.
In my most current build, the blaster is surprisingly survivable. I'm glad I took Force Mastery. The extra Def, and 30% resists are extremely nice with the Aid self (with one interrupt reducer). BUT status is still a killer. Stuff like Arachnos, I have to turn down. Too many sleeps/holds/stuns/whatevers. The sort of stuff my scrapper walks through.
I love the style of my blaster. I wouldn't give him up. It's just getting used to the... lower expectations.
Nekron: Beam Rifle / Poison Corruptor and Slayer of Evil!! (Exalted)
Intergalaktic: Fire / Time Corruptor (Exalted)
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You make some very solid points, and I wouldn't argue any of them. Except perhaps the VEATS. I think you've over thought them. The VEATS to me are just in line with MOST of the villian ATs. They are hybrids. Just like corruptors, dominators, brutes and stalkers are all hybrids of the hero AT's. |
Originally Posted by StratoNexus
Read the first paragraph in a serious fashion and consider it (it is funny too, but also see it from a different angle).
I bet your blaster is better at being team dependent than your scrapper. [snip] For everyone who wanted to play a blaster, but wanted it to be more like a scrapper, they made VEATs. IMO, it was a conscious and brilliant choice (although it has taken a long time for me to feel that way). Having both ATs is likely a good idea (and I think they are both very popular ATs). The only drawback for me is I can't play a Fire, Ice, Punch, or Elec version. VEATs have solid projectiles, Nrg blasts, mace, claws, poison, crab legs, and Psi powers covered though. |
Personally I didn't want this to turn into a 'Why blasters suck' sort of negative thread. I accept the role a blaster has to take. I'm okay with it. It's just the longer, tougher road. I'm okay with it. It's the price of all that flare.
Nekron: Beam Rifle / Poison Corruptor and Slayer of Evil!! (Exalted)
Intergalaktic: Fire / Time Corruptor (Exalted)
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If you're one of the +4 x8 crowd, I'd be curious to look at your DM/Shield build to determine how it's drastically less expensive than a Blaster build. I've found almost all high end Scrapper builds to be heavy on expensive sets that should easily be more expensive than a ranged defense and a little recharge Blaster build.|
Originally Posted by _Elektro_
I really don't know hot to say this because I think video game bragging is for idiots but that being said, I go +4 x8 with my DM Shield scrapper. There are certain enemies I won't do that on, but I also do not go below +3 x8. Carnie are the worst, and the 'new' uber DE are just the Kryptonite to defense.
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Even if you're going for a heavy recharge Blaster build, it's probably going to be tapping a lot of the same sets as Scrappers for the +recharge.
For what it's worth, keep in mind most players (regardless of AT) are not going to be soloing +4 x8. The developers are certainly not seeing that as baseline performance (not even close). Not saying it isn't done by quite a few, but it's good to remember.
Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
Story Arc: Belated Justice, #88003
Synopsis: Explore the fine line between justice and vengeance as you help a hero of Talos Island bring his friend's murderer to justice.
Grey Pilgrim: Fire/Fire Tanker (50), Victory
Apologies if this has been stated before, but what is the best DPS chain for Dual Pistols? What kind of Recharge would said attack chain require?
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No good at making chains, but I'm betting that it's basically whatever you want - except for Empty Clips ('cos of its low damage compared to its 2.5s activation time; but it still has its uses since it's AoE).
For me the combos are based purely on the opponents being faced.
Towards endgame, HoB is a mandatory starter, so I get it charged ASAP with my build. The 10 % def bonus NEARLY caps me out, for just long enough to get past the animation, and a bit of spare change left over.
Then the next shots fired depend on who's standing? A few LT's or minions? I slowly retreat, firing Rain in a nice arch, and as it aggro's, the formation results in something pretty good for Empty Clips to finish the mob.
If it's a boss or two I think I can stand up to? Then after HoB, I go to see if I can get a good line on them with Piercing, and then Exectioner (in that order).
If it's one or two running/missed minions? I just go back to the one two punch of pistols/dual wield.
Nekron: Beam Rifle / Poison Corruptor and Slayer of Evil!! (Exalted)
Intergalaktic: Fire / Time Corruptor (Exalted)
I was just going to add to this post that I am completely at a loss for which Incarnate to slot for pistols.
I have only slotted the first common for Musculature. I can't say it's stellar by any stretch, but would any common Alpha be 'stellar' on pistols? Probably not.
The recharge would work well for HoB which I live on, and the heal, which I also get a TON of mileage out of (but less so since I respeced into Invincibility).
I'm keeping Musculature for now and I'll let you guys know if I think it's worth it or not.
Nekron: Beam Rifle / Poison Corruptor and Slayer of Evil!! (Exalted)
Intergalaktic: Fire / Time Corruptor (Exalted)
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That's tough to say, since a Blaster will often have powers in their secondary to fall back on, and those are usually better than any of the powers in Dual Pistols for single targets (especially for things like Energy Punch or Bonesmasher). When we're simply talking single targets, the highest DPA power in Dual Pistols is actually the Tier 1, Pistols, followed by Piercing Rounds, Executioner's Shot, and Dual Wield, in that order. Those last three powers, though, are almost identical in terms of their DPA, and once you factor in ArcanaTime, all four of the powers mentioned get very close together.|
Originally Posted by bAss_ackwards
Apologies if this has been stated before, but what is the best DPS chain for Dual Pistols? What kind of Recharge would said attack chain require?
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This basically means that, so long as we're not looking into complicated things like juggling ammunition (so that it's on Fire for every attack except Piercing Rounds, where it is Lethal so you can get the -Res) and Defiance, your top attack chain for straight Dual Pistols is something like: Pistols > (choose Piercing Rounds, Executioner's Shot, or Dual Wield) > repeat.
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I find Pistols - DW - Pistols - Exec [Repeat] to be really easy to chain with relatively low recharge. Per BrandX's comments today on Scrapper board, apparently you can slot the Achilles - RES into Pistols as well, so having 2 chances in a chain to apply it is probably a good thing. As Iggy pointed out, Piercing has a long recharge time that you need ridiculous +rchrg to chain effective (300%?) ... so if the DPS of DW/Exec/Piercing are relatively similar then perhaps the chain I mention really isn't that bad. |
Originally Posted by Diellan_
That's tough to say, since a Blaster will often have powers in their secondary to fall back on, and those are usually better than any of the powers in Dual Pistols for single targets (especially for things like Energy Punch or Bonesmasher). When we're simply talking single targets, the highest DPA power in Dual Pistols is actually the Tier 1, Pistols, followed by Piercing Rounds, Executioner's Shot, and Dual Wield, in that order. Those last three powers, though, are almost identical in terms of their DPA, and once you factor in ArcanaTime, all four of the powers mentioned get very close together.
This basically means that, so long as we're not looking into complicated things like juggling ammunition (so that it's on Fire for every attack except Piercing Rounds, where it is Lethal so you can get the -Res) and Defiance, your top attack chain for straight Dual Pistols is something like: Pistols > (choose Piercing Rounds, Executioner's Shot, or Dual Wield) > repeat. |
Overall though on my Corr I am finding the damage of DP pretty lackluster, especially the AOEs, even when boosted with TarPatch. I look at Empty Clips (with -RES achilles) as really just a debuffing attack
So my DP/NRG blaster is 43 now and he's one of my favorite characters. I actually like the set so much that I might roll another DP character once I hut 50. He doesn't have any sets and I don't plan to IO him up more then bare bones (never cared for number crunching and spread sheets) and he still gets the job done.
Went munitions mastery.
What can I say? DP is a blast. (bad pun, I know)
I've been in level 50 teams, and with the global recharge up, there is NO hole. It's AOE keeps up with the end game requirements. And the single shots (which IMHO is its greatest weakness) do a great job of mopping up lt's and bosses.
I've spent a small fortune on the build but I don't regret it.
Nekron: Beam Rifle / Poison Corruptor and Slayer of Evil!! (Exalted)
Intergalaktic: Fire / Time Corruptor (Exalted)