Or they could just make it so the presents only open for people who are level appropriate to the zone somehow... like they do with paper missions.
Low level people could still do the exact same thing and leave mobs all over the place though so...
A character could very easily open up a gift, in a level-appropriate zone, which spawns +5 to them. So, should they have to attempt to defeat the three +5 minions that spawned on top of them before they're allowed to open another gift?
Thank you, Champion.
None of this would be an issue of the gift mobs (and the Halloween ToT mobs, for that matter) were made auto-levelled like the Rikti invasion mobs.
Only if they redesign something about those mobs. Invading Rikti have base level 30 HP, except for the Heavies and UXBs, which have base level 50 HP. You do as much damage to them as you would to a -1 mob of the same rank, in a numerical sense. If you are level 5, that could be around 20 damage, which is great for something that has level 5 HP, but not so good for something with level 30 HP.
Either one or the other of two following changes would need to be made to invasion coding. They would either have to come up with a way for you to do the same percentage of the mobs' HP as you would to something of the same rank at your level, or they'd have to come up with let's say 5 different sets of invasion mobs, set to roughly levels 5, 15, 25, 35 and 45, and put whichever is most appropriate for for the midrange of each zone there.
Without this, low level characters, and I mean specifically those below their 20s, just face enemies that are frustrating to fight, and increasingly-so the lower the level gets. To see this in action, try and take out a single invading Rikti Minion solo on a level 5 character. It is an uphill battle from the start, and you are most likely to end up with no endurance and an enemy with about half of their HP left. The GM/Invasion coding is not the miracle solution that some people think as it stands right now.
"I wish my life was a non-stop Hollywood movie show,
A fantasy world of celluloid villains and heroes."
Quote:
Except a Lieutenant spawns behind you long before you reach that point |
Originally Posted by Ms. Mesmer
To see this in action, try and take out a single invading Rikti Minion solo on a level 5 character. It is an uphill battle from the start, and you are most likely to end up with no endurance and an enemy with about half of their HP left.
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Also, it isn't only about how the numbers scale. Someone brought up a good point in another thread about encountering Zeus Titans in tip missions when you're level 20. Those are bosses meant for level 40+ characters; they have a lot more powers to fight with. Attacks that a level 20 has insufficient defense against, and defenses that a level 20 can't really penetrate yet. The numbers for those powers might be scaled down, but the fact remains that characters at lower levels aren't properly equipped to stand up against higher level powers, period.
As to the OP's point, I agree that it's pretty careless to leave things lying around that can endanger other players. (I feel the same way about ambushes that trigger on mission exits.) It *really* bothered me during last year's event, but this year I'm leaning more towards "they're big and bright white, you can see them a mile away". Because unfortunately with most annoying behavior in games, you can't really stop the inconsiderate people without also penalizing the ones who were playing considerately.
I usually clean up my messes anyway, grey or not. Although if the zone seems mostly empty I'll leave ones that spawn in out-of-the-way corners, where players not participating in the event don't typically reach. Or if they're on a roof. I figure any character that manages to aggro something on a rooftop obviously (A) can handle themselves just fine, or (B) needs to learn a lesson anyway.
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If you go by UberGuy's post over here, it seems that Mobs using the GM/Invasion code can have their underlying level scale now.
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Originally Posted by Ms. Mesmer
Only if they redesign something about those mobs. Invading Rikti have base level 30 HP, except for the Heavies and UXBs, which have base level 50 HP. You do as much damage to them as you would to a -1 mob of the same rank, in a numerical sense. If you are level 5, that could be around 20 damage, which is great for something that has level 5 HP, but not so good for something with level 30 HP.
Either one or the other of two following changes would need to be made to invasion coding. They would either have to come up with a way for you to do the same percentage of the mobs' HP as you would to something of the same rank at your level, or they'd have to come up with let's say 5 different sets of invasion mobs, set to roughly levels 5, 15, 25, 35 and 45, and put whichever is most appropriate for for the midrange of each zone there. Without this, low level characters, and I mean specifically those below their 20s, just face enemies that are frustrating to fight, and increasingly-so the lower the level gets. To see this in action, try and take out a single invading Rikti Minion solo on a level 5 character. It is an uphill battle from the start, and you are most likely to end up with no endurance and an enemy with about half of their HP left. The GM/Invasion coding is not the miracle solution that some people think as it stands right now. |
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Yeah, I noticed that about three weeks before he did.|
Originally Posted by Shadow State
If you go by UberGuy's post over here, it seems that Mobs using the GM/Invasion code can have their underlying level scale now.
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It's still just one mob in one mission, but it's a promising start. Let's just say that level-less mobs, and the issues that they currently have, are pet concerns of mine.
"I wish my life was a non-stop Hollywood movie show,
A fantasy world of celluloid villains and heroes."
Quote:
Fair cop, and I didn't think about that aspect of it. However, the spawns eventually die off when the present reappears, so they could wait it out.|
Originally Posted by Bramphousian
A character could very easily open up a gift, in a level-appropriate zone, which spawns +5 to them. So, should they have to attempt to defeat the three +5 minions that spawned on top of them before they're allowed to open another gift?
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Originally Posted by Triplash
As to the OP's point, I agree that it's pretty careless to leave things lying around that can endanger other players. (I feel the same way about ambushes that trigger on mission exits.) It *really* bothered me during last year's event, but this year I'm leaning more towards "they're big and bright white, you can see them a mile away". Because unfortunately with most annoying behavior in games, you can't really stop the inconsiderate people without also penalizing the ones who were playing considerately.
I usually clean up my messes anyway, grey or not. Although if the zone seems mostly empty I'll leave ones that spawn in out-of-the-way corners, where players not participating in the event don't typically reach. Or if they're on a roof. I figure any character that manages to aggro something on a rooftop obviously (A) can handle themselves just fine, or (B) needs to learn a lesson anyway. |
But you are also correct, and another thing I didn't think about in my grumpy mood when I posted this: penalizing the rude people is going to more adversely affect the ones who are playing nice. In the meantime, I guess when I run around PI cleaning up mobs that people leave when I open presents too I'll have to go in broadcast and announce my thanks to the people who left the spawns for the two purples I got from them...
Guardian server is Life!
Founder and Leader and all around greatest member of the Solo-SG, The Charybdis Clan.
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How is it so much *worse* to run into a spawn of level 6 snowmen in Atlas than to run into a spawn of level 6 Hellions? Is it because the Hellions are spawned by the cold, unfeeling RNG while you *know* a player is behind the snowmen, so you have an actual person you can blame?
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Originally Posted by CharybdisClan
But to a brand new out of the box toon it's annoying to run around only to find +7 mobs to you. This is true in any other zone too.
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Character index
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Snark ignored, pretty much, yes. Also, the zones are fairly divided up so you don't usually find level 1 spawns right next to level 8 spawns, something that the presents don't quite do. RNG is not a person with responsibilities for their own actions, and people should be responsible for their actions (in this case, opening presents and spawning creatures,) regardless of the culture my country is attempting to spawn.|
Originally Posted by Silver Gale
How is it so much *worse* to run into a spawn of level 6 snowmen in Atlas than to run into a spawn of level 6 Hellions? Is it because the Hellions are spawned by the cold, unfeeling RNG while you *know* a player is behind the snowmen, so you have an actual person you can blame?
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Now, I've said my piece. I shall not allow you to bait me. So, I give you a present:
<licks, hugs>
Guardian server is Life!
Founder and Leader and all around greatest member of the Solo-SG, The Charybdis Clan.
I think this is just another example of what happens when people spends far too much time door sitting in AE farms. They forget how to play the game.
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The presents don't do that either. They scale to zone level. Atlas is a 1-6 zone, you will never see level 8 snowmen there. And there are absolutely places where level 1 Hellions are next to level 6 Hellions - just look south of the Atlas statue.|
Originally Posted by CharybdisClan
Also, the zones are fairly divided up so you don't usually find level 1 spawns right next to level 8 spawns, something that the presents don't quite do.
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If you are a level 1 in Atlas, or a level 20 in Talos, or a level 30 in Brickstown, there are things in this zone that can kill you. There is no excuse for not paying attention and rushing through to your target like you're level 50. It is not someone else's responsibility to remove any obstacles in your way so you are not unduly inconvenienced, no matter what your culture tells you.
Character index
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Mama always taught me, you make the mess, you clean it up. Live in your entitled mindset all you want, I shall give you one final drool and be done.
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Originally Posted by Silver Gale
The presents don't do that either. They scale to zone level. Atlas is a 1-6 zone, you will never see level 8 snowmen there. And there are absolutely places where level 1 Hellions are next to level 6 Hellions - just look south of the Atlas statue.
If you are a level 1 in Atlas, or a level 20 in Talos, or a level 30 in Brickstown, there are things in this zone that can kill you. There is no excuse for not paying attention and rushing through to your target like you're level 50. It is not someone else's responsibility to remove any obstacles in your way so you are not unduly inconvenienced, no matter what your culture tells you. |
Guardian server is Life!
Founder and Leader and all around greatest member of the Solo-SG, The Charybdis Clan.
Quote:
Mercy Island laughs in your face and hurls +3-4 Snow people at you. Do not pass go. Do not collect $200/£100.|
Originally Posted by Silver Gale
The presents don't do that either. They scale to zone level. Atlas is a 1-6 zone, you will never see level 8 snowmen there. And there are absolutely places where level 1 Hellions are next to level 6 Hellions - just look south of the Atlas statue.
If you are a level 1 in Atlas, or a level 20 in Talos, or a level 30 in Brickstown, there are things in this zone that can kill you. There is no excuse for not paying attention and rushing through to your target like you're level 50. It is not someone else's responsibility to remove any obstacles in your way so you are not unduly inconvenienced, no matter what your culture tells you. |
The ammount of times I've opened a present on a level 1-2 by Fort Darwin, only to have to leg it like hell from the purple con minion spawn...
If I had a pound for every time that happened, I could cancel out about 3 months subscription. At the very least.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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That's right. Refuse to admit you're wrong and cast dispersions on the people who point out the flaws in your imaginary problem. From what I'm seeing your the only one here with an entitlement issue.
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Originally Posted by CharybdisClan
Mama always taught me, you make the mess, you clean it up. Live in your entitled mindset all you want, I shall give you one final drool and be done.
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Um, okay. Discussion wasn't directed at you. Further, I clean up my messes when I open them, including the +3 mobs I get. There is no problem here. I thought this forum was about offering suggestions. I did. Replies were made, discussion was had, peace was here till you and other tart got involved. So another thing my mother taught me shall be passed on to you: don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything.|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
That's right. Refuse to admit you're wrong and cast dispersions on the people who point out the flaws in your imaginary problem. From what I'm seeing your the only one here with an entitlement issue.
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Or, if you're not going to contribute to the topic and instead insult, go away.
<heads off to corner grumbling about silly people arguing on teh interwebz>
Guardian server is Life!
Founder and Leader and all around greatest member of the Solo-SG, The Charybdis Clan.
Quote:
Sorry but you don't get to choose who can respond to your posts. If you wanted to keep it private you should have posted it as a Private Message.|
Originally Posted by CharybdisClan
Um, okay. Discussion wasn't directed at you.
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| Further, I clean up my messes when I open them, including the +3 mobs I get. |
1. Level appropriate to the zone it is in.
2. Relatively stationary and doesn't go running all over the zone chasing the person that spawned it and thus can't be used to gank other players. (unlike the ToT mobs)
3. On a timer so they die when the present respawns.
4. Easily avoided by anyone watching where they are going.
There is no problem except in your own imagination. Nothing needs to be changed.
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| So another thing my mother taught me shall be passed on to you: don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything. |
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I'M A WHIRLPOOL!|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Sorry but you don't get to choose who can respond to your posts. If you wanted to keep it private you should have posted it as a Private Message.
There are no messes to clean up. When a mob spawns after a present is opened it is 1. Level appropriate to the zone it is in. 2. Relatively stationary and doesn't go running all over the zone chasing the person that spawned it and thus can't be used to gank other players. (unlike the ToT mobs) 3. On a timer so they die when the present respawns. 4. Easily avoided by anyone watching where they are going. There is no problem except in your own imagination. Nothing needs to be changed. Too bad you chose not to follow you mothers advice. |
Makes about as much sense as you.
I have been nothing but nice to people in this conversation until you people came in, and even then I've been courteous. When people are having a discussion in a public place do you feel the need to start interjecting your opinion to them? No? Rules of courtesy apply on the interwebz as much as in real life.
Second, I wish to re-iterate that rules of courtesy apply on the interwebz as they do in real life. Therefore, if you make a mess, clean it up. Simple. Okay, yes, people can go around and avoid them. Should they have to because you're lazy? Nope.
And yes, there are messes to clean up. You yourself said so: there are spawns. You open a present, you know what's happening: either you get a gift of some sort, or you get a spawn of enemies. But hey, let's go with society as a whole and say, "oh, hey, I engaged in an activity whilst knowing the results may be good or bad, and I got the bad one, so I'll just cop out!"
Good thing that tossers like you will eventually stop populating because you're gonna go out and get all kinds of abortions. Actions = results = RESPONSIBILITY.
CLEAN UP THE MESS YOU MAKE IF YOU GET A SPAWN!
Oh, and yes, that was rude. Don't care. Tired of arguing with people on the interwebz.
Guardian server is Life!
Founder and Leader and all around greatest member of the Solo-SG, The Charybdis Clan.
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I'm inspired to blow open every present iI can find Atlas tonight, so if you get ganked by a (zone-appropriate level) spawn of snowmen on Virtue, shake your fist and let your rage-spittle fly at the Goat.|
Originally Posted by CharybdisClan
Snark ignored, pretty much, yes.
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=D
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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No, really, is this kind of stuff necessary? This forum is for what, Suggestions and Ideas, right? So is it really necessary to come in and be a complete tool to people because it's something you don't like?|
Originally Posted by Nethergoat
I'm inspired to blow open every present iI can find Atlas tonight, so if you get ganked by a (zone-appropriate level) spawn of snowmen on Virtue, shake your fist and let your rage-spittle fly at the Goat.
=D |
Sod off, the lot of you. You don't like the idea, fine. I'm not complaining about it because hey, guess what, I don't go present hunting with lowbies; if I go present hunting it's in PI with my 50s. I'm suggesting it because a.) there's a precedent with the ToT'ing, and b.) to help out new players who come in to not get ganked because of some rude tard.
If you're gonna be constructive, good. I welcome that. If you're just gonna be a rude jerk, go away and troll elsewhere.
Guardian server is Life!
Founder and Leader and all around greatest member of the Solo-SG, The Charybdis Clan.
Quote:
followed by|
Originally Posted by CharybdisClan
No, really, is this kind of stuff necessary? This forum is for what, Suggestions and Ideas, right? So is it really necessary to come in and be a complete tool to people because it's something you don't like?
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| Sod off, the lot of you. |
Heheh.
You know what's easier than the devs coding in a special system to protect you from spawns that are the appropriate level for the zone they're in?
Paying attention when you run down the street.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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Stumbling across a level 50 ambush in a low level zone is a mess. |
Originally Posted by CharybdisClan
And yes, there are messes to clean up.
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A stationary spawn of a mob that is the appropriate level for the zone it is in (and which disappears in a couple of minutes) is not a mess.
Ah, just close the thread down. It's gone downhill since the trolls got a hold of it.
Request moderator lock.
Guardian server is Life!
Founder and Leader and all around greatest member of the Solo-SG, The Charybdis Clan.
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you're pretty good at violating explicit forum rules for someone who runs for the mods with such eagerness.
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Originally Posted by CharybdisClan
Ah, just close the thread down. It's gone downhill since the trolls got a hold of it.
Request moderator lock. |
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
Okay, in my group I'm not the only one who feels this way, but I don't know how many others feel this way: high-level people running around low-level zones opening presents and running away from the spawns they create. Now, on a level 50 running through Atlas or Mercy, they're nothing. But to a brand new out of the box toon it's annoying to run around only to find +7 mobs to you. This is true in any other zone too.
So, perhaps there can be a cool-down timer on present opening like trick or treating, or something like a "Can't open this present till you clear your previous mob" type thing? Thoughts?
Guardian server is Life!
Founder and Leader and all around greatest member of the Solo-SG, The Charybdis Clan.