Best powersets for Batman/Batgirl/Robin play?
By
Arbegla,
Posted on: 2010-12-19 07:35 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
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Yeah, with Batman's, well, willpower, you would expect him to have good Psi resistance. |
Originally Posted by BrandX
Well, with WP you can softcap your defenses (or concentrate on just S/L) and it come with the added benefit of decent Psi Resist/Defense.
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Then again, SR is pretty good defense against Psi, since it doesn't treat it any differently than any other attack type. You only have to worry about the untyped Psi attacks. And Ninjitsu fills in that hole.
There are arguments for all three, really. Willpower I tend to see more as the "too stubborn to die" types, like Indiana Jones or Rambo. You can fill them full of bullets, and by the end of the fight they'll probably only barely be able to stand, but somehow they're still going and still fighting. Batman can be like that, but more often than not he avoids being hit by simply not being where the bullets are aimed.
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It also helps that criminals are a superstitious, cowardly lot.
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Originally Posted by Jade_Dragon
OTOH, if I were starting over with it today, I would probably agree with the previous poster who went the Dark/Dark route. Perhaps Dark/Willpower. As the Fear powers are built into the set, they are a lot stronger than the Pool versions, and don't need to be slotted as heavily before you start to get effective results. |
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Which does fit Batman. He's one of the hardest heroes in the DCU to mind control.
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Originally Posted by BrandX
Well, with WP you can softcap your defenses (or concentrate on just S/L) and it come with the added benefit of decent Psi Resist/Defense.
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"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern." Lord Acton
Madam Enigma's History
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I'd actually pick Claws or Dual Blades out of power sets that we have right now for Dick Grayson. One of the (modern) trademarks of the character is that he was trained in eskrima. Those two sets at least have some of the two-handed motion that that fighting style is known for.|
Originally Posted by Madam_Enigma
Grason-MA/SR/Gadgets same as Batman but make sure to take the Jumping pool for kick attack, combat jumping, and acrobatics.
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"I wish my life was a non-stop Hollywood movie show,
A fantasy world of celluloid villains and heroes."
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But when Grayson was Robin, he didn't use twin batons. Nor does he do so as Batman currently. It was only in his Nightwing persona he used two melee weapons.
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Originally Posted by Ms. Mesmer
I'd actually pick Claws or Dual Blades out of power sets that we have right now for Dick Grayson. One of the (modern) trademarks of the character is that he was trained in eskrima. Those two sets at least have some of the two-handed motion that that fighting style is known for.
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"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern." Lord Acton
Madam Enigma's History
He did, in a retcon fashion. It was something that was inserted into his character as having happened while he was still Robin, but the retcon to his character happened after he had stopped being Robin, so it's only seen in the rare flashback stories. The current canon for him is that, sometime after taking the beating from Two-Face that made Batman temporarily suspend him as Robin, he went out on his own and learned eskrima. This was all part of the Robin: Year One series. That was why I put in the modern qualifier.
"I wish my life was a non-stop Hollywood movie show,
A fantasy world of celluloid villains and heroes."
I know I'm going to catch a good deal of flak for this, but I posit that Batman is a very well built Archery/TA Defender. Ignore the bow aspect of it for a moment and think about the damage types and effects.
I'm not saying Batman isn't a melee character. What I am saying is he carries a belt full of ranged lethal damage typed weapons (and explosives, so I'm looking at you explosive arrow), and heavy debuffs.
You could argue that he's a Corruptor of a similar type, with the Scourge being him weakening his opponent.
I have now made the nerdiest argument on the internet.
<throws flak at Signal>
That's Green Arrow's/Speedy's schtick!
<throws more flak> ...oh wait...that's flan! nom nom nom...
Edit: Can you believe that the forum censored Signal's name when i used initials??? wow.
RaikenX is currently seeking new quotes to add to his signature.
Someone say something funny.
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Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe
::looks at RaikenX's signature::
Something funny. |
Hmm. Well, really, Batman should be martial arts/devices.
Unfortunately, that's not an option.
I'd actually probably run him as a /nin stalker. Not sure which primary. MA, if they have it? I can't remember.
Robin is, of course, a Hostages/Self-Reference MM.
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Hmmm...see, this is what we need...|
Originally Posted by seebs
Hmm. Well, really, Batman should be martial arts/devices.
Unfortunately, that's not an option. I'd actually probably run him as a /nin stalker. Not sure which primary. MA, if they have it? I can't remember. Robin is, of course, a Hostages/Self-Reference MM. |
MA/Ninjitsu/Weapons Scrapper - Batman
Dual Batons/Ninjitsu/Weapons Stalker - Nightwing
Staff/Ninjitsu/Weapons Stalker - Robin
We also need Swing Line travel power!
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Batman with claws? The person who said that is thinking of Dark Claw. That was the Amalgam of Batman and Wolverine. I have a Captain America and Batman Amalgam on Justice. I went Martial Arts/Shield Scrapper.
Like everyone says already. Scrappers and Stalkers would be the AT to use.Here is something I found when i was wondering this same exact thing before. I cut and pasted this from www.phan.org/coh/subscrapper.htm
Not sure how to make that a weblink for ya though.
www.phan.org/coh/index.htm The site is "The Crime Fighters City of Heroes Page."
Stealth Scrapper:
Primary: Martial Arts
Secondary: Super Reflexes
Pool Powers: Concealment, Presence
Possible Origins: Natural, Technology
Examples: Batman, any Ninja
Although a variation on the Martial Artist, the Stealth Scrapper actually calls for strategies all his own. As his name suggests, this subarchetype uses stealth and cunning to single out his foes, striking without warning, then vanishing back into the shadows when his task is done. He can also use fear and intimidation to his benefit, which is why the Presence pool is suggested.
Unfortunately, the Stealth Scrapper is unable to use many of the devices that you might expect from this kind of hero, like bolos, gas bombs, and nets to snare his enemies. Still, the Stealth Power all by itself can be very powerful, and cut down on the amount of aggro that the Scrapper draws. The Stealth Scrapper is mainly a solo archetype, and relies on his Stealth to be able to split up groups of villains. However, a group could do well to let a Stealth Scrapper "scout" for them, and make the first strike to catch their enemies unawares.
The Stalker version of the above works also. It's the Ninja basically on that website.
Though, at level 41, both the Scrapper and Stalker get access to Weapon Mastery APP, which completes the Batman concept nicely.
If you have Going Rogue, then a MA/Nin Stalker is a little closer to the concept, because /Ninjitsu gives access to some gadgets (Caltrops, Smoke Grenades, Blinding Powder) much sooner, and Assassin's Strike to strike from the darkness and KO one opponent immediately is so Batman-like.
I might have to try that when I make one. Problem is both costumes i made and saved for 1 look like it is Batman. Nothing like how some folks go and change files to get exact copies though.
Batman is none as a guy ready for everything. He has a robotic suit, HIGHLY res and def to psi, stealth, able to put fear in almost everyone (even superman is some what scared of him), suit with a lot of body armor, can hit ever hard, don't forget that he knows almost everything, and more.
So you might need to make more then one person with more then one archetype. Study enemies, and learn there weakness (like clockworks weakness to psi dmg). If not pick some of his qualities and work this that.
Some builds that might work.
For stealth, fear, and high psi res go with MA or DM/DA/weapons scrapper or DM/will/weapons (what Jade_Dragon said)
For stealth, psi res, hit hard. MA or DM/Ninjitsu or will/weapons stalker
SR might be to super if you ask me for batman. Get temp and pool to fill in some holes and you will have a good batman like characters.
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Rock Hitman - lvl 50 stone/super strength - tanker
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Quote:
The alternate animations for MA might work well for the Jason Todd robin. But er, too street fightingy for Batman, Grason, or Drake IMO. Might work for the Damian robin though.
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Originally Posted by xXAssassinJakeXx
Batman is none as a guy ready for everything. He has a robotic suit, HIGHLY res and def to psi, stealth, able to put fear in almost everyone (even superman is some what scared of him), suit with a lot of body armor, can hit ever hard, don't forget that he knows almost everything, and more.
So you might need to make more then one person with more then one archetype. Study enemies, and learn there weakness (like clockworks weakness to psi dmg). If not pick some of his qualities and work this that. Some builds that might work. For stealth, fear, and high psi res go with MA or DM/DA/weapons scrapper or DM/will/weapons (what Jade_Dragon said) For stealth, psi res, hit hard. MA or DM/Ninjitsu or will/weapons stalker SR might be to super if you ask me for batman. Get temp and pool to fill in some holes and you will have a good batman like characters. |
"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern." Lord Acton
Madam Enigma's History
Ninjistu for its tech utility powers in addition to dodge is the best secondary IMO
A game is not supposed to be some kind of... place where people enjoy themselves!
MA/Inv/Weapons for Batman
MA/SR/Weapons for Batgirl
Tampon/Poo-poo/Smegma for Robin
Edit: I take that back. Poo-poo is more epic than Smegma, and Smegma would have more synergy with Tampon Assault or whatever.
Tampon Assault/Smegma Armor/Poo-poo mastery for Robin.
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Copied from Comicvine.com|
Originally Posted by Madam_Enigma
Bats bending a gun? Citation please, he's got human levels of strength, not superhuman.
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Because of Batman's physique, he has accomplished feats that normal human beings almost call superhuman! Batman has been said to know every martial art known to man, and out of every single one of those forms of fighting, Bruce knows 127 that are deadly. Those 127 are the main forms of fighting he uses, however he changes it up to seem unnatural to man or superhumans. Due to his training, Batman has also mastered all weapons known to man, and even guns. Batman's combat skills surpass any superhuman and normal man, that he even knows every pressure point and nerve strike. Which he inflicts dangerous pain to his enemies which can cause dizziness, numbness, unconsciousness, temporary paralyze, disorientation, and even death. He is in 100% physical peak in every area of his body and mind. He continues to change his schedule to fit with running Batman Incorporated and Wayne International.
It is possible for a real life man to do this (see link). Then why can't Batman do it?
http://www.history.com/shows/stan-le...s/bios#slide-4
Batman is at the peak of human condition and in the real world we have people bench pressing 1,000 pounds, so I believe this could happen (see link again).
http://www.bench-press.net/heaviest-bench-press.html
Proton Sentry Peacebringer:lvl 50+++ - Human Build / Triform Build
Quasar Sentry Warshade:lvl 50+- Human Build / Triform Build
Red Katipo Arachnos Soldier:lvl 50+++ - Crab Build / Bane Build
Black Katipo Arachnos Widowlvl 50+++ - Fortunata Build / Night Widow Build
IMO...
Batman - MA/WP/Weapon Mastery Scrapper
Batgirl - MA/WP/Weapon Mastery Stalker
Robin - MA/Nin/Weapon Mastery Stalker
Proton Sentry Peacebringer:lvl 50+++ - Human Build / Triform Build
Quasar Sentry Warshade:lvl 50+- Human Build / Triform Build
Red Katipo Arachnos Soldier:lvl 50+++ - Crab Build / Bane Build
Black Katipo Arachnos Widowlvl 50+++ - Fortunata Build / Night Widow Build
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I suspect even this guy couldn't reach out with one hand and bend a gun-barrel with a quick motion. In the movie, as has been pointed out, Bats has some kind of pneumatic device on his arm or something. He also uses it to tear into the side of a van like a can opener, if I recall. Course, the real problem with the barrel-bending scene is that the other guy wouldn't have been able to hold on to the weapon, but that's the sort of thing everybody hates to have pointed out while actually trying to enjoy a comic-book movie. |
Originally Posted by Big_Soto
It is possible for a real life man to do this (see link). Then why can't Batman do it?
http://www.history.com/shows/stan-le...s/bios#slide-4 |
As an aside, I finally got around to getting Arkham Asylum a few days back. Damn... what a fun game. Really great attacking from the shadows and taking out the henchmen one at a time as they slowly start freaking out wondering where you'll strike next. Unfortunately not something you could even come close to in a game like CoH, but I'd agree on MA/Nin/Weapons Stalker with as many temp gadgets on your toolbars as you can fit. And *definitely* Presence pool.
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Quote:
Batman punches at least as often as he kicks, probably more. He may be an expert martial artist in a wide variety of disciplines, but, at his core, he's a dirty fighter. He will pick up whatever is handy, be it a boat oar hanging on a bar's wall or a battery from a car at a junkyard, to take an enemy out of the fight as quickly as possible, and to add to the fear factor. Above all, one of the trademarks of Batman in a fight is that he's mean. He uses every skill and opportunity at his disposal to turn the fight his way. That really makes him the world's most accomplished street fighter.|
Originally Posted by Madam_Enigma
The alternate animations for MA might work well for the Jason Todd robin. But er, too street fightingy for Batman, Grason, or Drake IMO. Might work for the Damian robin though.
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Edit: Added links to illustrate the examples that I used. Those links are to comics blogs, and might contain some colorful language.
"I wish my life was a non-stop Hollywood movie show,
A fantasy world of celluloid villains and heroes."
Having read through the thread, and from my own idea, I'd say a MA/Nin/Weapons Stalker is the most accurate one you can drag out of CoH.
MA because Bats is a crazy good fighter (Just change some of the kicks to punches) and hand to hand combat is his first and most important form of attack. He might use a toolshed in the form of a belt, true, but even without any weapons he's dangerous.
Nin because one of the Bats main defenses is to not get hit at all, which he does in two ways, the first being not being seen, hiding in the shadows. The Stalker Hide ability fits this prefectly. Secondly Nin is defense based, ie not getting hit. Of course you could go MA/SR for a Stalker, but you miss out on Caltrops, Smoke Flash and Blinding Powers, more 'weapons' Batman would carry.
Weapons Mastery meanwhile has Web Grenade and or Physical perfection as tier one choices, both fit the Bat just right although I lean towards the latter than the former. Shuriken and Exploding Shuriken can be used as Batarangs and Explosive Baterangs. The Targeting Drone doesn't really fit Batman's usual MO and comes with a massive cost in edurance, so it's skippable in my mind.
For travel powers you could go Super Speed (Just say he's riding in the Batmobile) Super Jump (Line grapple), flight (Rocket Boots were added in the DCAU to the Batman Beyond suit) or don't take any and just use Ninja Run.
Other Pool Powers could inculde Preseance, Concelment (Stalkers don't REALLY need them, but it's an option), Leadership, Fighting and maybe Medicine (Gotta have a first aid kit in that belt).
Of course to make the character he either has to A) start as a villian and go to Paragon at level 20 or B) start as a Praetorian and go to Paragon at level 20. For RP reasons you can say he's 'scouting the enemy' in both cases.
Quote:
I always love seeing powerlifting pictures: one guy lifting, and about eight guys spotting. It's like working for the government. Ah, the memories...
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Originally Posted by Big_Soto
Batman is at the peak of human condition and in the real world we have people bench pressing 1,000 pounds, so I believe this could happen (see link again).
http://www.bench-press.net/heaviest-bench-press.html |
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@Starflier
Built a 'Batman' Build during lunch, made it up in like 20 minutes so it might need some refining. The main focus was to softcap defense first, anything else as a nice option. Hasten isn't in the build, but if you need/want it badly enough pull out exploding Shuriken or Caltrops to replace it. Also, no travel powers are included, so you would use Ninja Run to get around.
Edit: Cobra Strike slotted for damage. Found out how to get suppressed values recently. Go up to Options then Configuration to the Effects & Math tab and select 'Attacked' to see suppressed values for Hide and other powers.
Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.91
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Unnamed Batman Toon: Level 50 Natural Stalker
Primary Power Set: Martial Arts
Secondary Power Set: Ninjitsu
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leaping
Ancillary Pool: Weapon Mastery
Villain Profile:
Level 1: Storm Kick -- T'Death-Dam%:40(A), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:40(9), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx:40(11), T'Death-Dmg/Rchg:40(29), T'Death-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:40(43), T'Death-Acc/Dmg:40(43)
Level 1: Hide -- LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(A)
Level 2: Ninja Reflexes -- RedFtn-EndRdx:50(A), RedFtn-Def:50(7), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx:50(15), RedFtn-EndRdx/Rchg:50(21), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg:50(25), RedFtn-Def/Rchg:50(37)
Level 4: Danger Sense -- RedFtn-Def/EndRdx:50(A), RedFtn-EndRdx:50(5), RedFtn-Def:50(17), RedFtn-EndRdx/Rchg:50(21), RedFtn-Def/Rchg:50(25), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg:50(37)
Level 6: Assassin's Blow -- Mako-Dam%:50(A), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(7), Mako-Acc/Dmg:50(40), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx:50(42), Mako-Dmg/Rchg:50(43), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg:50(45)
Level 8: Crippling Axe Kick -- T'Death-Dam%:40(A), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:40(9), T'Death-Acc/Dmg:40(46), T'Death-Dmg/Rchg:40(46), T'Death-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:40(48), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx:40(50)
Level 10: Maneuvers -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx:50(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg:50(11), LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(50)
Level 12: Placate -- RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(13), RechRdx-I:50(13)
Level 14: Caltrops -- TmpRdns-Dmg/Slow:50(A), TmpRdns-EndRdx/Rchg/Slow:50(15)
Level 16: Kuji-In Rin -- RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(17)
Level 18: Cobra Strike -- C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:30(A), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:30(19), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx:30(19), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg:30(45), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:30(46), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg:30(50)
Level 20: Kuji-In Sha -- Mrcl-Heal:40(A), Mrcl-Heal/EndRdx:40(23), Mrcl-EndRdx/Rchg:40(23), Mrcl-Heal/Rchg:40(36), Mrcl-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg:40(48)
Level 22: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 24: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(A)
Level 26: Tough -- Aegis-ResDam:50(A), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx:50(27), Aegis-ResDam/Rchg:50(27), Aegis-EndRdx/Rchg:50(31), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:50(31)
Level 28: Smoke Flash -- RechRdx-I:50(A), Acc-I:50(29)
Level 30: Weave -- LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(A), LkGmblr-Def:50(31), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx:50(34), LkGmblr-Def/Rchg:50(34), LkGmblr-EndRdx/Rchg:50(34), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg:50(37)
Level 32: Eagles Claw -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg:50(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx:50(33), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(33), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(33), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(36)
Level 35: Blinding Powder -- Mlais-Acc/Conf/Rchg:50(A), Mlais-Acc/Rchg:50(36)
Level 38: Focus Chi -- GSFC-Build%:50(A), GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx:50(39), GSFC-ToHit:50(39), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg:50(39), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx:50(40), GSFC-Rchg/EndRdx:50(40)
Level 41: Physical Perfection -- EndMod-I:50(A), EndMod-I:50(42), EndMod-I:50(42)
Level 44: Shuriken -- Thundr-Acc/Dmg:50(A), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx:50(45)
Level 47: Exploding Shuriken -- Posi-Acc/Dmg:50(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx:50(48)
Level 49: Kuji-In Retsu -- LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(A)
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Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Assassination
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+:50(A), Mrcl-Rcvry+:40(5)
Level 2: Stamina -- EndMod-I:20(A), EndMod-I:50(3), EndMod-I:50(3)
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OTOH, if I were starting over with it today, I would probably agree with the previous poster who went the Dark/Dark route. Perhaps Dark/Willpower. As the Fear powers are built into the set, they are a lot stronger than the Pool versions, and don't need to be slotted as heavily before you start to get effective results.
While it does seem more like Batman's style to be dodging attacks instead of regenerating health at an accellerated rate, I've come to the conclusion Super Reflexes is more geared towards "super" reflexes, that is the like the Flash or Spiderman. Batman's agility is just one aspect of his defense, he also has body armor, superior conditioning, various painkillers and stimulants, and he probably does heal faster than a normal person.
Ninjitsu is probably the best fit, even though you have to go Stalker for it. It concentrates more on the Confuse and disorient in Blinding Powder than Fear, but you can role play Placate as frightening your foe into not attacking you. I essentially play the same character as my MA/SR Scrapper as a Stalker, but he uses Placate for Intimidate and Blinding Powder for Invoke Panic. And of course doesn't have to go to the Pool for Stealth either.
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