Cheaper boosters = more cash?


BrandX

 

Posted

In the discussion threads for the last two boosters, (Dance and Origins), several people noted that they feel the packs would sell better (and presumably make more money) if they were one or two dollars cheaper. We can't tell if it's true for the Super Boosters, because we have no access to any sales data, but maybe if we looked at a similar market, we could at least get a basic idea of how price relates to gains.

This article on Gamasutra shwos the top selling (most sales) and top *grossing* (most money earned) games on the iPhone and iPad. The top-selling games are all in the $1-$3 range (no big surprise there), but half of the the top *grossing* games are $3-$4. The discrepancy is even bigger on the iPad, where only *one* of the top-grossing games is $1, and *five* are $10.

Despite this, you'll note that the top-grossing iPhone games are still $1, and they are the same two games as the top-selling ones (again, no big surprise there).

What does this tell us? Well, on the iPhone and iPad, at least, you're more likely to get a lot of money if you price your game up. The income lost from people who look at your game and go "I'd buy that for a dollar, but not for three" is less than the income gained from, well, people paying $3 for your game. You still have a chance of grossing more on a cheaper game, but it needs to be a vast, runaway success.

Extrapolating this to boosters... sure, *you* might have bought the Party Pack at $4 instead of $8. But do you really think it would have attracted *twice as many buyers* at the very *least*? Do you think pricing it at $2 would have made it a "must buy" to the entire playerbase?

Maybe the NCSoft marketing guys aren't as dumb as they look.

NOTE: Please do *not* discuss the relative merits of the actual games, as that is against forum rules. This thread is meant to discuss the idea that "lower prices mean more money earned" and the iPhone game sales are only a point of data in the discussion.




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Posted

I have all the boosters up to the Party Pack and the Capes/Auras one.

There is no way I'll ever buy the party pack as it stands in its current price - but if it was significantly cheaper I'd strongly consider it.

Not sure about the latest one - and don't even get me started on the 30 day jet pack



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Posted

I got all the costume boosters and even the emote booster, however, they did have some of the older boosters half off on the 29th.

So the question is, did they seel enough of those at lower cost to be seen as more people would by them.

Or did they do better selling at their normal price, then much much MUCH later, get a few more for those who wouldnt have bought them before.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Gale View Post
Maybe the NCSoft marketing guys aren't as dumb as they look.
I don't think they're dumb, but I'm willing to believe they got a tad too greedy lately.

I won't talk about specific games, but I will point out that in your discussion about the Apple apps you didn't mention what the relative perceived value/worth of those highest grossing apps were. Maybe people were more willing to spend more money for those higher priced games because they decided those game were actually "worth" the money.

When you try to relate that to the last few Booster Packs for this game you run into the problem with whether or not people (for instance) consider 8 emotes to be "worth" $7.99 or not. I think what you'd find is that people wouldn't mind paying $7.99 for 8 emotes as long as those emotes were the best most game-changing emotes ever made. Problem is I don't think everyone thought those emotes were worth -that- much.

I think it's worthwhile to consider the Apple app statistics when talking about this issue, but ultimately what works in that arena is probably "apples and oranges" to what would work for a MMO like this.


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Posted

Having worked retail I do run alot into the "You get what you pay for" mentality. I guess people are cynical by nature or at least in a purchasing environment and tend to cast doubt and start to look for faults and issues when a product comes long at a low cost. Despite the fact that it might be good or even better than the high cost models.



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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unknown_User View Post
Having worked retail I do run alot into the "You get what you pay for" mentality. I guess people are cynical by nature or at least in a purchasing environment and tend to cast doubt and start to look for faults and issues when a product comes long at a low cost. Despite the fact that it might be good or even better than the high cost models.
In a generic buying/selling retail situation I can see where your "I'll pay more for something because low priced stuff usually equals junk" mentality has some merit.

But this is a captive audience (the players of this game) being offering a limited choice of hardwired bonus packs that simply need to be judged on their own obvious merits. I'm not going to look at a pack of 8 emotes for $7.99 and think "well I'll buy that because that must be better than the $4 emote pack" because there's NOT a $4 emote pack alternative.

Again I think it's good to compare this situation to other real world retail situations, but those comparisons can only go so far.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lothic View Post
I don't think they're dumb, but I'm willing to believe they got a tad too greedy lately.
I disagree on the "lately". Running an MMO is a business. We can argue the relative merits of corporate capitalism (and there is plenty there to headdesk over), but let's just agree that their #1 goal is "make as much money as possible" and "make customers feel like their purchases are worth the money spent" is only relevant as long as it contributes to #1.

I'm not saying it's a good #1 goal, I'm just asking you to consider the method behind their madness.

Quote:
When you try to relate that to the last few Booster Packs for this game you run into the problem with whether or not people (for instance) consider 8 emotes to be "worth" $7.99 or not. I think what you'd find is that people wouldn't mind paying $7.99 for 8 emotes as long as those emotes were the best most game-changing emotes ever made. Problem is I don't think everyone thought those emotes were worth -that- much.
There are definitely people who thought the emotes weren't worth that much. We've heard from some on the forums. There are probably many people who don't think a game for their iPad is worth a whole $10.

The point is, if you earn *more* money selling 8 emotes for $8 than from selling them at $4, it doesn't matter how many people think $8 is a bad deal. It *especially* doesn't matter how many people think $8 is a bad deal *and then buy the emote pack anyway*. Given that their goal is to gain as much money as possible, it would seem pricing it at $8 may actually be a viable strategy.




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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Gale View Post
I disagree on the "lately". Running an MMO is a business. We can argue the relative merits of corporate capitalism (and there is plenty there to headdesk over), but let's just agree that their #1 goal is "make as much money as possible" and "make customers feel like their purchases are worth the money spent" is only relevant as long as it contributes to #1.

I'm not saying it's a good #1 goal, I'm just asking you to consider the method behind their madness.
I realize that the folks behind this game are in business to make money. I don't begrudge them any scheme they come up with to try to get more money from us. But I did imply them trying to be a bit more greedy "lately" because I think it's a very fair point to argue that the last couple of booster packs have not been as valuable/worthwhile for the price as the first Boosters were. I hope the trend of offering "less for the same price" does not continue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Gale View Post
There are definitely people who thought the emotes weren't worth that much. We've heard from some on the forums. There are probably many people who don't think a game for their iPad is worth a whole $10.

The point is, if you earn *more* money selling 8 emotes for $8 than from selling them at $4, it doesn't matter how many people think $8 is a bad deal. It *especially* doesn't matter how many people think $8 is a bad deal *and then buy the emote pack anyway*. Given that their goal is to gain as much money as possible, it would seem pricing it at $8 may actually be a viable strategy.
I'm not necessarily suggesting that they didn't turn a tidy profit from offering the Boosters at the price they sold them for. But until the Devs reveal solid sales numbers on this (assuming they ever would) I will continue to remain convinced that their total gross would have been better if they sold these Boosters for closer to their generally accepted value.

If they want to sell me a Booster for $8 or $10 then give me something WORTH that much, or at the very least give me as much as I got out of other similarly priced items. The idea that they can get people to buy less product for the same amount of money could eventually backfire on them (via general customer dissatisfaction) if they try to press that gap too far. It's fair to highlight the fact that the Party Pack was the first Booster I recall that got such an obvious negative "it's not worth it" feedback on these forums. That's a bad precedent to set here. *shrugs*


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Posted

Some people's ideas of valid price points seem like absurd hair-splitting to me. "Eight emotes is worth exactly... six dollars and twelve cents to me." How do you come up with that?

Maybe they think they're haggling with NCsoft? "Eight dollars? For this, sir, I will pay you five and not a penny more!" And then you settle on six, of course. But it doesn't actually work like that.


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Posted

I don't know that comparing a booster to a bunch of unrelated one-off games is the greatest comparison. The highest grossing games may have very well been legitimately the "best" games. I'm unfamiliar with all of them so I can't say but I wouldn't draw any direction parallels to booster pricing.

The response to the party pack left me with the impression that it was less well received than the Powers That Be expected it would be, including for that price point. And so it stands to reason that a lower price point would have netted more sales and potentially more profits. But we'll never know for sure.

I don't think that they would have doubled or tripled their profits or anything but I do think it could have been priced better and that they were more optimistic about peoples' desire to purchase a non-hero-related emote pack than the reality of it.


 

Posted

To be honest, I think 5 Dollars per pack would've been good. The Emote Booster Pack shouldn't even exsist, those were free back in GR Closed Beta and they should've been free now.


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Posted

The beauty of digital goods is that since the initial costs are fixed and the per-unit cost is precisely nil, you can afford to sell all the units you can at $8, and then sell all the units you can at $4, and then sell all the units you can at $2, and so on. What do you get for $8 that you don't get for $2? The chance to have the items now instead of when the price goes down to $2 (which may be a long wait). The point is that there's no need to discuss a fixed price point when talking about earnings; you can hit all price points in the fullness of time. The trick is knowing what the initial price point should be, and when and how much to decrease it.

This is how Steam works, and it works great.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Gale View Post
I
Maybe the NCSoft marketing guys aren't as dumb as they look.
Impossible, everyone knows they choose price points based solely on the amount of NERDRAGE it will generate on the forums.

=P


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Megajoule View Post
Some people's ideas of valid price points seem like absurd hair-splitting to me. "Eight emotes is worth exactly... six dollars and twelve cents to me." How do you come up with that?

Maybe they think they're haggling with NCsoft? "Eight dollars? For this, sir, I will pay you five and not a penny more!" And then you settle on six, of course. But it doesn't actually work like that.
If someone wanted to be picky about it I guess a person could say the Party Pack was only worth exactly $6.12 to them. But for the most part the various people who have commented about it over the last few months have stuck to fairly reasonable round numbers. IIRC most people thought $4 would've been better for it.

It's not really a matter of "haggling" with NCSoft. It's more a matter of comparing what we got in earlier packs versus the Party Pack. In comparison I'd have to agree that the Party Pack was really only "half-a-pack" in relative terms so they really should have only charged us half the price. Nothing too picky about that price point I should think.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lothic View Post
It's not really a matter of "haggling" with NCSoft. It's more a matter of comparing what we got in earlier packs versus the Party Pack. In comparison I'd have to agree that the Party Pack was really only "half-a-pack" in relative terms so they really should have only charged us half the price. Nothing too picky about that price point I should think.
huh, which previous pack delivered an equal amount of quality idle emotes?
Did I miss something?
I mean I really like the Magic pack juggle emotes, but that's one animation with different balls.

The party pack is the first of its kind, rating its 'value' against previous packs is an apples and oranges deal.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nethergoat View Post
The party pack is the first of its kind, rating its 'value' against previous packs is an apples and oranges deal.
Which would make comparing it to iPad apps "apples and shotgun shells"


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jophiel View Post
Which would make comparing it to iPad apps "apples and shotgun shells"
the underlying financial realities of the systems are similar enough that a comparison is entirely applicable.


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Posted

Well, speaking generally, you often see a failure to grasp the concept of slightly less price may net more profit.
It is difficult for some.
However, whether or not that is the case with the CoH Boosters, I can't really say.

I'm willing to venture a guess that the Party Pack could have netted equal or greater money in at a lower price.
It's just a guess though. Since I don't know how many people actually did pay for it nor how many would have if it were lower.
People can say whatever they want.
Like me... I raced a zebra down Madison Avenue today, but lost because I stopped in at Starbucks to buy some shoe laces.


I imagine that all of the previous Super Boosters sold rather well.

Honestly, I think the Complete Collection Extras Booster from Going Rogue was a bit under-priced (rather nice of them, for those who bought the regular Going Rogue or didn't buy the expansion at all).
You got equal or greater amounts of costume pieces and auras and a power for a cheaper price than the Super Boosters.

However, I've seen several posters claim that this Pack was a rip off (Of course, you can never please everyone and there will always be complaints on gaming forums... So, it's hard to get a proper read on things).

Just my scattered thoughts...


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nethergoat View Post
Impossible, everyone knows they choose price points based solely on the amount of NERDRAGE it will generate on the forums.

=P
That's not dumb, that's *genius*! =P




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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Electric-Knight View Post
Well, speaking generally, you often see a failure to grasp the concept of slightly less price may net more profit.
It is difficult for some.
However, whether or not that is the case with the CoH Boosters, I can't really say.

I'm willing to venture a guess that the Party Pack could have netted equal or greater money in at a lower price.
It's just a guess though. Since I don't know how many people actually did pay for it nor how many would have if it were lower.
People can say whatever they want.
Like me... I raced a zebra down Madison Avenue today, but lost because I stopped in at Starbucks to buy some shoe laces.


I imagine that all of the previous Super Boosters sold rather well.

Honestly, I think the Complete Collection Extras Booster from Going Rogue was a bit under-priced (rather nice of them, for those who bought the regular Going Rogue or didn't buy the expansion at all).
You got equal or greater amounts of costume pieces and auras and a power for a cheaper price than the Super Boosters.

However, I've seen several posters claim that this Pack was a rip off (Of course, you can never please everyone and there will always be complaints on gaming forums... So, it's hard to get a proper read on things).

Just my scattered thoughts...
The party pack would probably have earned a lot more if they added a "lampshade" stealth power. :P


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by DePr0grammer View Post
The party pack would probably have earned a lot more if they added a "lampshade" stealth power. :P
If it had a light on/off switch setting (essentially 2 nearly-identical emotes) I would have been so there first in line buying it.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Gale View Post
In the discussion threads for the last two boosters, (Dance and Origins), several people noted that they feel the packs would sell better (and presumably make more money) if they were one or two dollars cheaper. We can't tell if it's true for the Super Boosters, because we have no access to any sales data, but maybe if we looked at a similar market, we could at least get a basic idea of how price relates to gains.

This article on Gamasutra shwos the top selling (most sales) and top *grossing* (most money earned) games on the iPhone and iPad. The top-selling games are all in the $1-$3 range (no big surprise there), but half of the the top *grossing* games are $3-$4. The discrepancy is even bigger on the iPad, where only *one* of the top-grossing games is $1, and *five* are $10.

Despite this, you'll note that the top-grossing iPhone games are still $1, and they are the same two games as the top-selling ones (again, no big surprise there).

What does this tell us? Well, on the iPhone and iPad, at least, you're more likely to get a lot of money if you price your game up. The income lost from people who look at your game and go "I'd buy that for a dollar, but not for three" is less than the income gained from, well, people paying $3 for your game. You still have a chance of grossing more on a cheaper game, but it needs to be a vast, runaway success.

Extrapolating this to boosters... sure, *you* might have bought the Party Pack at $4 instead of $8. But do you really think it would have attracted *twice as many buyers* at the very *least*? Do you think pricing it at $2 would have made it a "must buy" to the entire playerbase?

Maybe the NCSoft marketing guys aren't as dumb as they look.

NOTE: Please do *not* discuss the relative merits of the actual games, as that is against forum rules. This thread is meant to discuss the idea that "lower prices mean more money earned" and the iPhone game sales are only a point of data in the discussion.
Also keep in mind that credit card companies deal with transaction charges differently with different vendors.

For most vendors, there's a base fee and a percentage fee-- meaning that the less you charge for an item, the larger proportion of the sale that goes to the credit card company.

Apple and several other big customers were able to haggle better deals that make microtransactions more viable. That was possible (in part) due to the user-tracking base that makes fraud-prevention penalties more possible. MMO's aren't as lucky-- as an industry, they have a HUGE fraud cost associated with them historically (and some companies even more than others) so they pay some of the harshest vendor fees already.

They're just not going to see ANY pricing that would make microtransactions more possible.

They MIGHT be able to implement an "NCCoin" system for boosters-- that way the CC charges are in more cost-effective large dollar values, but the things you buy could then be prices at microtransaction levels. Thats about as close as we'll get, though.


 

Posted

really good points Chase, stuff I knew but hadn't applied to the current discussion. I tend to think of big corporations as being mostly alike, but clearly Apple's customer base and business model would give them far greater leverage than NC when it came down to negotiating rates.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nethergoat View Post
really good points Chase, stuff I knew but hadn't applied to the current discussion. I tend to think of big corporations as being mostly alike, but clearly Apple's customer base and business model would give them far greater leverage than NC when it came down to negotiating rates.
Oh, yes, especially when some CC companies had publicly threatened to revoke merchant accounts of at least one MMO providers several years back because the fraud rate was so high (this was several years back). Many companies have been forced to adopt rather inflexible processing rules (which you see catch some legit players on these boards, particularly some who are overseas but bank back home) and fees bordering on... well... they're aggressive (robbery seemed too strong a term...).

A book published around 2001 listed the various cost models for a subscription-based MMO and suggested $1.00 -$1.50 of a $15 monthly subscription be set aside to address "fraud & CC processing expenses*." In an casual conversation with a colleague that's consulted several A-list MMO's, I asked if that's still accurate. He laughed and suggested that its safest to allocate triple or quadruple that amount.

Granted, that was anecdotal, and conversations like that are bound to be exaggerated, but I wouldn't be surprised.




*this covers both the CC processing fees and the money set aside to offset the losses of people that dispute charges. Since the disputes come long after the month of service has been provided, there's nothing to recover to reduce losses.


 

Posted

I took advantage of their "Cyber Monday" deal and picked up everything on sale that I didn't have, including the Mac Edition (I'd only ever bough the Magic booster before).

The reason? While I like extra goodies and I do like supporting the devs, I don't feel $10 is a fair price for what is added to the game while I pay a monthly fee. That being said, I don't have a problem with boosters either. I'd guess when Martial Arts and Mutants go on sale, I'll pick them up as well.

So, more to the point of the thread... Yes, I was more inclined to buy boosters when they were cheaper. I also feel that CoH, when the time comes as it seems to do in all MMO lifespans, goes to free to play with mini-transactions, it will live a long full life. If people are willing to pay $10 for what amounts to be very little in the aspect of gameplay, figure what people would pay for new power sets?