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I've run IC TFs, and it does add more time. Even more, if you really slow down to RP.|
Originally Posted by Warsuit X-5
I've been on a speed LGTF once, and killmost TFs. I liked the reward/time ratio...but that's not why I play, in fact, the speed LG was about as boring to me as gathering in other games.
I'd love to try a IC SF sometime, but I think it would take MUCH longer than I'm used to. |
They can be fun, but I find I don't care to RP them as often as I run them. More so on something like the LGTF, inwhich people are saying "OMG is that Hero One?!"
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Yeah I am sure there are those out there but what they don't realize is they are RACING to grab a single Element at the end when if they took their time and actually defeated all or most of the enemies in the missions they could probably skip a couple, if not more TFS, because the amount of shards that would drop would allow them to BUILD all those little "end bits" they are so busy racing to obtain. LOL Like I said they are not exactly using a lot of Gr'ai matter. |
Originally Posted by The_Larker
Wendy~ I get what your talkin about and like I said in other posts in made no sense to me.
Until I found out that the core ppl running the tf only wanted to get the end salvage. Hell even after the tf was over some folks stayed on to clear the map, it seems some folks are just speeding it to get their last piece of salvage to complete w/e they need. Personally I'm for the kill all and it looks like the vast majority of the population is too,but, as always there is a percentage that make you wonder why they do things the way they do. Hope this clears up what I was tryin to get across.  |
Using their so called logic.. Lets say they manage to complete an ITF in 50 minutes and gran and Ancient Nictus Fragment along with maybe 4-5 shards. Then speed through a LGTF in say an hour and get a hero one and another 4 maybe 5 shards. Now assuming they plan to go with a Cardiac Boost, like I have, they go and buy a Gr'ai Matter with vanguard merits and have their common slot taken care of.. but they have a grand total of at most 10 shards toward that uncommon .. and need at least 8 just to build the uncommon element required plus another Hero One DNA. So its off to run another LGFT, waiting 18 hours so they can actually get the reward at the end and then they still need another Hero One Dna plus befiore they can craft an uncommon Cardiac Radial. They probably end up running 4-5 Task Forces taking between 4-5 hours to complete. I did this same thing KILLING ALL in 3 TFs in slightly over 4.5 hours. I'm not saying the Speed runs are not out there but less people are begging for them and more are looking for the "Let's defeat as much as we can find!" at least its what i have been seeing lately
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Most of the TFs I've been running lately, the leader has notified us what to expect - whether a speed, kill everything in our way or just plain ole kill everything.
TFs for me have been averaging around 1 hour per run (except for a STF that I was tanking and praise the kind souls on the TF for sticking with it).
But even when I speed run with folks, we still manage to cause lots of chaos.
Shards have indeed slowed things down (on the higher end TFs).
For a lot of players, they've run all the TFs 100x over so it goes from being "Wow this TF is cool, let's take our time and see what's happening" to "Wow this TF is needed for a badge/accolade/reward etc and I've seen this a bunch of times, let's just get it done."
Anyway, I hope you find some relax TFs. If you check some of the global channels I'm sure you'll be able to find something
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mm always ask what "kind of" TF the leader plans on doing before you join...
I personally like to "steamroll" -- Kill the baddies in my way This results in TFs normally taking 40min-1h 10min, which is exactly where I like it. I don't like poking around on stuff I've done many many times.
I don't mind speed TFs, and I usually don't mind kill-all TFs -- What I really like is in between
I have noticed less of the speed oriented and more of the killz them all thought process though.
Just going to point this out -- attacking lots of rikti over and over again, on the huge maps of the LGTF is not fun if the team lacking certain things and it also gets pretty redundant. Same thing on the STF -- Arachnos can be pretty annoying.
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Shards have slowed down many level 50 TFs for me and made them into "kill most." Well, okay, LGTFs and ITFs mostly.
Some though, are just too involved for anyone to really want to "kill most" them - the LRSF comes to mind, nobody ever wants to clear the whole agincourt longbow base map or the malta base's exterior or the ruined atlas park, and I don't think anyone ever will.
On the other hand, Apex is almost a "kill all" TF by virtue of its mission objectives, and I'm doing that in under 40 minutes now.
"Experience is the mother of good judgement. Bad judgement is the father of experience."
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ITF = 21-28 min|
Originally Posted by Wicked_Wendy
Yeah I am sure there are those out there but what they don't realize is they are RACING to grab a single Element at the end when if they took their time and actually defeated all or most of the enemies in the missions they could probably skip a couple, if not more TFS, because the amount of shards that would drop would allow them to BUILD all those little "end bits" they are so busy racing to obtain. LOL Like I said they are not exactly using a lot of Gr'ai matter.
Using their so called logic.. Lets say they manage to complete an ITF in 50 minutes and gran and Ancient Nictus Fragment along with maybe 4-5 shards. Then speed through a LGTF in say an hour and get a hero one and another 4 maybe 5 shards. Now assuming they plan to go with a Cardiac Boost, like I have, they go and buy a Gr'ai Matter with vanguard merits and have their common slot taken care of.. but they have a grand total of at most 10 shards toward that uncommon .. and need at least 8 just to build the uncommon element required plus another Hero One DNA. So its off to run another LGFT, waiting 18 hours so they can actually get the reward at the end and then they still need another Hero One Dna plus befiore they can craft an uncommon Cardiac Radial. They probably end up running 4-5 Task Forces taking between 4-5 hours to complete. I did this same thing KILLING ALL in 3 TFs in slightly over 4.5 hours. I'm not saying the Speed runs are not out there but less people are begging for them and more are looking for the "Let's defeat as much as we can find!" at least its what i have been seeing lately |
LGTF = 20-25 min
KahnTF = 20-24 min
'CudaSF = 40-48 min (although no one speeds this regularly because the last mission stinks)
STF = 36-43 min
LRSF = 25-32 min
Apex = 28-30 min
Tin Mage = 27-29 min
Ship Raid = 40 min, 600-1000 vmerits
Hami Raid = 34-40 min, no shortcutting.
Total time about 4 hours, including downtime to market, recruit, eat, bio etc. More efficient than kill alls if you can keep the pace up.
The other benefit to finishing fast are that if you want to leave, you can because it is finished. If you want to stay behind and defeat the last mobs, whether it is ITF, LGTF or any other TF, it is your own personal prerogative.
Speed TFs are truly awesome to watch when everyone knows how to play their toons to the edge of their ability. It doesn't even take an fully kitted out toon to do it, SOs are fine. Watching *really* good speed runners is quite incredible because it is like a well oiled machine, or a ballet with spinning daggers.
It isn't even always about the lowest time, sometimes you do it because it's fun. Some people like to role play during down time, some like to chat, others like to dual box, some go afk. Some people like to speed so there is less downtime.
Personally I think forcing people to use their toons to their maximum makes them not fall asleep at the keyboard. It can be overwhelming for people who aren't used to doing it that way, but I prefer having the team at the perpetual edge of a teamwipe to really see that they are playing.
I'm of the opinion that everyone fights. When the runners are making a break for the end boss, the rest of the folks at the door can smash things while waiting.
Most veteran speeders aren't really about the rewards, funnily enough. They probably have enough stuff already where it doesn't matter much to them now. It's just the way they play, and it is infectious enough where other people want to do it as well.
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Originally Posted by Electric-Knight
Baronesa (and likely some others here), we should do some TFs together some time! Anyone think we could try hooking up fully IC TFs in the TF global? |
That sounds like a great idea... someday we should work that out
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Originally Posted by all_hell
this has been the opposite of my experience. Shards have made fewer speed runs and more killing during SFs, imho.
Speed runs come from trying to get to the end reward asap to get more reward for time spent. Since shards drop from kills I have seen many more "kill-most" SFs to maximize shard drops. |
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Originally Posted by shaggy5
I have had the opposite experience with TFs and i19. Once we found out that shards drop, I have done more "kill all" TFs than ever before.
Before i19, the biggest reason people did speed TFs was that you received Merits for the TF and getting done quickly meant you could spend your merits quickly. |
Edit: Also this...
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Originally Posted by Flux_Vector
Shards have slowed down many level 50 TFs for me and made them into "kill most." Well, okay, LGTFs and ITFs mostly.
Some though, are just too involved for anyone to really want to "kill most" them - the LRSF comes to mind, nobody ever wants to clear the whole agincourt longbow base map or the malta base's exterior or the ruined atlas park, and I don't think anyone ever will. On the other hand, Apex is almost a "kill all" TF by virtue of its mission objectives, and I'm doing that in under 40 minutes now. |
Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
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Same here actually, most of the PuGs I've been on (as well as VG ran TFs) have settled on a balance between killing and speeding.|
Originally Posted by all_hell
this has been the opposite of my experience. Shards have made fewer speed runs and more killing during SFs, imho.
Speed runs come from trying to get to the end reward asap to get more reward for time spent. Since shards drop from kills I have seen many more "kill-most" SFs to maximize shard drops. |
We don't aim to clear the whole map specifically, but we WILL storm the hill for example in the ITF mission instead of taking the shortcut up - as well as killing all the ambushes and fighting our way to the bosses.
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They were like this before Reward Merits as well. Remember all the Speed Katies just to get the rare recipe at the end?
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Originally Posted by Valentyna
How is that different from eveyr raid and dungeon in ever game ever since Ultima Online? Taskforces have always been like that since Reward merits (I.E. meaningful rewards for doing them at all) were added to the game.
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I prefer speed TFs. Before, I wasn't careful about asking whether it was speed or not. One LGTF didn't even have any doms or holders for the hami. The team just wanted to farm shards.
Nowadays, I ask if the TF is speed. If not, I politely decline. In the 1.5 hrs it takes to kill all, I could have done other things in that hour, like do 5 tips, or market, building my base or crafting IOs on my toons.
Also, TFs lock the team which means you are obligated to see it to the end, which could be as long as two hours depending how slow it goes. I have limited time when I come home, so I don't want to be forced to play that one TF that long.
Some would say that speed TF isn't shard efficient. However, the TF reward choices include a component which is worth 4 shards. Assuming 3 other shard drops, a speed ITF completed at 25 mins is 4+3 = 7 shards/25 mins or 1 shard per 3.5 mins.
I've heard 10 shard drops in kill all ITFs. Assuming a complete time of 1.5 hrs, shard rate is 4+10 = 14 shards/90 mins or 1 shard per 6.4 mins.
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Ghosting, as we called in back in the day, the Cap Au Diable SF was what got me into speeding SFs. Back in the day, 7 of a team of 8 could log off and have one toon go through and complete all but the last mish. Then the other 7 would log in and all get the reward at the end.|
Originally Posted by Knightslayer
They were like this before Reward Merits as well. Remember all the Speed Katies just to get the rare recipe at the end?
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This was all before reward merits.
I've actually never done a speed TF (some sped up bits here and there maybe, but not true speed TFs).
In fact, I was just mentioning how I want to join in on a Speed ITF some time, because I have no idea how people are doing it in the times they have and I am entirely curious to experience it, hehe.
I don't think I've ever done an ITF that came in under 1.5 hours.
I've joked that it is entirely because of me, but that's not really true.
All that being said...
Baronesa (and likely some others here), we should do some TFs together some time!
Anyone think we could try hooking up fully IC TFs in the TF global?
I've been on a speed LGTF once, and killmost TFs. I liked the reward/time ratio...but that's not why I play, in fact, the speed LG was about as boring to me as gathering in other games.
I'd love to try a IC SF sometime, but I think it would take MUCH longer than I'm used to.