I have to wonder, though...
If its sole purpose is to eradicate all life... why does it talk at all? It should be calculating attack vectors and then executing them, surely?
I have a signature, me.
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Or waggling it's Death Ray/Plunger and screeching "EXTERMINATE! EXTERMINATE!"
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Originally Posted by Ghostie_NL
I have to wonder, though...
If its sole purpose is to eradicate all life... why does it talk at all? It should be calculating attack vectors and then executing them, surely? |
[Deleted]
This is a sequence from one of my short stories connected to my Zodiacs book:
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Adrasteia, especially in the later years long after she's been damned, is probably the creepiest and most evil character I've had.|
Adrasteia found herself standing over her bound brother in a room that was lightless but for the flicker of candlelight. It was getting difficult to recognize her brother under the layers of sliced skin and dried blood, but then, she had been here for the entire process these nine days. Coming down from the city above, fresh from the rites of redemption that the hypocrites of the House of Madeira had proscribed to her for the confessed murder of the same individual she was still torturing, she seemed oddly calm. A cold, considering light came into her eyes as she walked around her brother. “I don’t have to do this,” she said as if making a sudden realization. “I don’t have to listen to my hatred. I can still stop this. Even now you are not beyond saving.” She picked up a knife and handled it gently as she circled the table he was bound to. The woman looked up toward the ceiling and the places beyond. “All those rites are so worthless,” she said. “I could follow the prescriptions of redemption. Produce the charitable acts, follow the rituals, perform the cleansings.” A low, harsh chuckle escaped the bloody form that had been her brother when she’d started life. “You cannot be redeemed,” he croaked, glaring at her with hate-filled eyes of his own. “Indeed,” Adrasteia said. “It would be meaningless.” The chuckle died as the knife came slowly to Takis’s throat. “Redemption requires that I regret what I am about to do,” she whispered lovingly, as a sister to a brother. “And your destruction is worth far more than the cost of my soul, brother.” ***** Rama stared across the fire and watched, unsurprised as the tall, dark-haired chudail came out of the night and moved to sit down across from him. It had only been two months since he’d last seen her, returning to Bharita to face her people’s judgment against his advice. Clearly, they’d allowed her to pass through the rites of redemption. There was clearly something different about the woman. She had always had a cool and dark aura, one that could be felt more distinctly as she started honing her talents, but it had always been playful and curious before, soothing in a way. Now it was empty of those traits, and there was something else in their place that he wasn’t sure he wanted to identify. His thoughts drifted back to when he’d found her over the bodies of his family and he suspected that that was when she had started to change, but he’d been understandably too wrapped up in his own grief to notice. “They let you live,” he said, moderately surprised. “I was chudail,” Adrasteia said. “Chudail are exempt from the normal laws. There will be some who come for me, by the time they gather courage and a plan, it will be too late.” “You are chudail,” Rama said. “No, I was,” Adrasteia said firmly. She didn’t let him respond to that. “I need to apologize to you, Rama. I lied before.” “About what?” Rama asked, eyes narrowing. “My brother,” Adrasteia said simply. “I had hidden him when you found me. I only killed him later.” “Why would you do that?” Rama asked. “Look at me,” Adrasteia said harshly. Then she pulled her hands to her chest, beating them once emphatically. “Feel me! I know you can. Do you know what that emptiness is? That is damnation! I could not allow you to become… this.” She composed herself and took a deep breath. “I have brought the killers of friends to justice before,” Rama noted grimly. “And you have helped.” “This was not a mere friend,” Adrasteia said. “You would not have been satisfied with justice. You would have sought vengeance, I could feel it rising in you as I decided to lie. Do you deny this?” Silence reigned across the small campsite for several minutes as they merely stared at each other. Rama sat, considering her words and waited for her to be ready to continue. Adrasteia sat, planning what she must say. Finally, she took in a breath and spoke. “I thought that I was distant enough that I would not fall to the same temptation,” the woman explained. “But I should have known better when I did not kill him immediately. When I finally set about it, I took nine days to kill him. I would come down from the rituals of redemption and resume torturing him. When the last day of the ritual was complete, I took his life.” “Then you did not actually take the rites seriously,” Rama said. “You can still seek cleansing.” Adrasteia raised her hand and shook her head. "I could follow the prescriptions of redemption,” she responded. “Produce the charitable acts, follow the rituals, perform the cleansings, but it would be meaningless. I don't seek redemption. I merely seek to escape punishment. All it would do is make me sloppy and hypocritical, much better to be stepping into Hell with both eyes open.” She said that without any trace of regret or concern for her what she was implying. "I was happy that you were happy, my love,” she continued. “Regardless of whether you were happy with me or not. I plan to live chastely loving you from afar even now. I have made my choice, and it will not be well for the world. Some day in the future, you will seek to stop me, and when that comes you will die. I cannot face you in battle, but you choose not the power of society, and that I wield with authority.” She paused again as she stood up and held her arms out wide. “ I tell you this so that you might have the chance to bring this to a stop now and slay me,” she explained, “but I know that you will not. You are a good man, and even now you see me as a misguided soul who must be helped rather than an enlightened evil who will bring pain and death to thousands merely because she wants the world to be as she wishes it to be, in full knowledge that it is wrong.” She waited standing there, for five minutes, with him merely staring before he finally spoke. “I’m not going to kill you for what you have not done,” Rama said. “And I will not kill you for avenging my family.” “ And so, you will die,” Adrasteia said, bringing her arms in with an air of sadness. “And it will be my doing. I shall mourn you until that day." |
The above is basically her last gasp of heroism.
"Hungry demons and sociopaths have no choice but to be what they are, little, mindless evils. To truly be evil, you must truly care for and love something and still make the choice to destroy it."
Thrythlind's Deviant Art Page
"Notice at the end, there: Arcanaville did the math and KICKED IT INTO EXISTENCE." - Ironik on the power of Arcanaville's math
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That's not evil. It's merely a malfunctioning machine that needs to be scrapped.
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Originally Posted by PoisonPen
Having a (half-decayed and malfunctioning) brain, it does recognize the need to collaborate with the wet sacks of meat in order to improve its destructive capacity until it can successfully murder the entire population of Earth. Which is why it bothers to do missions rather than tearing out the spine of all its contacts.
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@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
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Nice writing. Yours? If so, kudos much.|
Originally Posted by Lycanus
This is a sequence from one of my short stories connected to my Zodiacs book:
Adrasteia, especially in the later years long after she's been damned, is probably the creepiest and most evil character I've had. The above is basically her last gasp of heroism. "Hungry demons and sociopaths have no choice but to be what they are, little, mindless evils. To truly be evil, you must truly care for and love something and still make the choice to destroy it." |
I like the last quote. I think that's probably what rings true most for my character Nightwalker, the Nictus Scientist. As far as he is concerned, all Kheldians are still one race, with great potential. He wants to 'save' them all, by completing his process of removing the Kheldians need to bond with a host to extend their life, while keeping the Nictus abilities that he sees as more powerful (this is all based off incomplete canon. i.e. I'm going with what I have to work with)
He wants to 'save' the Kheldian race so badly that he's willing to dispose of anyone, kinsmen included, who gets in his way.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Yeah, that's my writing, from one of four fiction books I have (the other three are in different world settings). Also have a world-setting/campaign guide out for the setting that includes Adrasteia.|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Nice writing. Yours? If so, kudos much.
I like the last quote. I think that's probably what rings true most for my character Nightwalker, the Nictus Scientist. As far as he is concerned, all Kheldians are still one race, with great potential. He wants to 'save' them all, by completing his process of removing the Kheldians need to bond with a host to extend their life, while keeping the Nictus abilities that he sees as more powerful (this is all based off incomplete canon. i.e. I'm going with what I have to work with) He wants to 'save' the Kheldian race so badly that he's willing to dispose of anyone, kinsmen included, who gets in his way. |
Haven't used the quote at the end yet, but it is one I want to use.
Thrythlind's Deviant Art Page
"Notice at the end, there: Arcanaville did the math and KICKED IT INTO EXISTENCE." - Ironik on the power of Arcanaville's math
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Very nice. Envy; I has it.|
Originally Posted by Lycanus
Yeah, that's my writing, from one of four fiction books I have (the other three are in different world settings). Also have a world-setting/campaign guide out for the setting that includes Adrasteia.
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Really need to finish my written works and try and get them published...
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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heh, don't be too envious...I'm self-published at the moment|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Very nice. Envy; I has it.
Really need to finish my written works and try and get them published... |
sold a total of 50 books last year between conventions, lulu and amazon's storefront
Thrythlind's Deviant Art Page
"Notice at the end, there: Arcanaville did the math and KICKED IT INTO EXISTENCE." - Ironik on the power of Arcanaville's math
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Probably so but, I think this example underscores a problem faced by players doing a villain with a truly alien mind bent on destroying the planet or whatever. You don't really role-play a conversation between Cthulhu and the tiny human who's stupidly entered his sunken city.|
Originally Posted by FloatingFatMan
That's not evil. It's merely a malfunctioning machine that needs to be scrapped.
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Human: Hello Mr. Cthulhu! How are you doing today?
Cthulhu: [Utters a subsonic wail that liquifies bone followed by lapping up the puddle of said human above.]
Doesn't really make for good conversation, right?
I mean I've tried in a thread here with an alien horror of my own and after the novelty wears off, there's not much for other players to build on. Alien evil is hard to do if it gets too alien.
"Civilization advances by extending the number of important operations which we can perform without thinking of them."
^ IMO, "evil" is just... Too hard to do in CoH. 99.9% of the time people either just about manage "criminal", and then slip right on in to "criminally insane".
For example, take my pet hate: Vampires (Take them, please!). Many would consider them to be evil, but really, they're not. Not even close. What they are, is nothing more than a plasmavore, or haemovore. They need blood to survive, so they kill people and drink their blood. That's not evil, that's dinner.
Proper evil, IMO, would be something like really really loving someone, but then murdering them anyway simply because they're in the way of your goals.
NOT because you "wanted to", as that's already slipped into insane. But simply just because they're in the way.
@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
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Well, that's me feeling a little more confident that two of my characters stand up to the acid test then |
Originally Posted by FloatingFatMan
^ IMO, "evil" is just... Too hard to do in CoH. 99.9% of the time people either just about manage "criminal", and then slip right on in to "criminally insane".
For example, take my pet hate: Vampires (Take them, please!). Many would consider them to be evil, but really, they're not. Not even close. What they are, is nothing more than a plasmavore, or haemovore. They need blood to survive, so they kill people and drink their blood. That's not evil, that's dinner. Proper evil, IMO, would be something like really really loving someone, but then murdering them anyway simply because they're in the way of your goals. NOT because you "wanted to", as that's already slipped into insane. But simply just because they're in the way. |
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Sidenote: Robots cannot, and never will, be evil. |
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Well, that's me feeling a little more confident that two of my characters stand up to the acid test then
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They're either made that way (either deliberately or by mistake), or are malfunctioning!
@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
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What about if they have self-learning AI's?
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Originally Posted by FloatingFatMan
Sidenote: Robots cannot, and never will, be evil.
They're either made that way (either deliberately or by mistake), or are malfunctioning! |
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Originally Posted by FloatingFatMan
Sidenote: Robots cannot, and never will, be evil.
They're either made that way (either deliberately or by mistake), or are malfunctioning! |
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Originally Posted by Zortel
What about if they have self-learning AI's?
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But anyway, what Z said. Besides, Alpha's not really evil, per se. He just doesn't like people getting in the way of whatever it is he's doing.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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And decide to eradicate mankind, or such things like that?|
Originally Posted by Zortel
What about if they have self-learning AI's?
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Not really evil, IMO. They're not exactly eradicating their own kind, after all... It's more like with vampires.
Purely IMO, of course.
You guys can define evil how you like.
@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
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speaking from the real myths....Vampires generally don't need the blood...they will go on existing until destroyed whether or not they get it...however, they do drink the blood|
Originally Posted by FloatingFatMan
^ IMO, "evil" is just... Too hard to do in CoH. 99.9% of the time people either just about manage "criminal", and then slip right on in to "criminally insane".
For example, take my pet hate: Vampires (Take them, please!). Many would consider them to be evil, but really, they're not. Not even close. What they are, is nothing more than a plasmavore, or haemovore. They need blood to survive, so they kill people and drink their blood. That's not evil, that's dinner. Proper evil, IMO, would be something like really really loving someone, but then murdering them anyway simply because they're in the way of your goals. NOT because you "wanted to", as that's already slipped into insane. But simply just because they're in the way. |
there are various explanations I've heard ranging from a jealousy of those still living to a compulsion, but the idea that they need blood to survive comes out of fiction more than myth
evil essentially means "unhealthy" that's the root meaning something that is "evil" is basically, at its basic nature, bad for you
Thrythlind's Deviant Art Page
"Notice at the end, there: Arcanaville did the math and KICKED IT INTO EXISTENCE." - Ironik on the power of Arcanaville's math
I don't understand the distinction you're drawing. What does it matter whether they're your kind or some other kind? Desire to inflict suffering is generally regarded as evil, without any need for qualifiers like "but only if you're doing it to things that are like you".
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Is a shark evil when it attacks swimmers? Is a runaway train evil when it crashes into a busy platform? Are dingoe's evil when they take a child?|
Originally Posted by seebs
I don't understand the distinction you're drawing. What does it matter whether they're your kind or some other kind? Desire to inflict suffering is generally regarded as evil, without any need for qualifiers like "but only if you're doing it to things that are like you".
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Of course not. So why would a machine, even a sentient one, be evil when it destroys? It's usually down to it being made that way, or because its malfunctioning, or something else. But evil? Naah.
@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
Quote:
Maybe I'm not getting my point across correctly, so I'll use characters you know.|
Originally Posted by FloatingFatMan
Is a shark evil when it attacks swimmers? Is a runaway train evil when it crashes into a busy platform? Are dingoe's evil when they take a child?
Of course not. So why would a machine, even a sentient one, be evil when it destroys? It's usually down to it being made that way, or because its malfunctioning, or something else. But evil? Naah. |
BODICIA decides she's had enough of someone, and starts tormenting them as a way to try and get them to leave. Bullying, basically. Evil if a person does it. Evil if a fully autonomous AI does it.
She's a machine, yes. But she knows right from wrong. She's not malfunctioning. She's doing it because she doesn't like someone.
Are evil people not evil at all because they were 'made' that way by environmental factors?
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The desire to cause suffering is not the same as the desire to acquire resources.|
Originally Posted by FloatingFatMan
Is a shark evil when it attacks swimmers? Is a runaway train evil when it crashes into a busy platform? Are dingoe's evil when they take a child?
Of course not. So why would a machine, even a sentient one, be evil when it destroys? It's usually down to it being made that way, or because its malfunctioning, or something else. But evil? Naah. |
We do not desire to cause suffering when slaughtering cattle for food.
However, torturing and hurting cows for no other reason than to cause pain is considered evil.
It's very much the same argument that can be made when some presents the quote "Vengeance is mine sayeth the Lord" as a way to argue against killing a dangerous person/thing.
Killing the entity because it hurt you in the past and desire to punish it for that wrong is vengeance
Killing the entity because you know it will hurt others in the future if you do not is not vengeance
Thrythlind's Deviant Art Page
"Notice at the end, there: Arcanaville did the math and KICKED IT INTO EXISTENCE." - Ironik on the power of Arcanaville's math
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One mans' evil is another mans' sick. I know how I define things, and you're all free to define it how you want. |
Originally Posted by Lycanus
However, torturing and hurting cows for no other reason than to cause pain is considered evil.
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@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
Quote:
No, because they are not moral agents -- they don't have the capacity for comprehending the choices involved.|
Originally Posted by FloatingFatMan
Is a shark evil when it attacks swimmers? Is a runaway train evil when it crashes into a busy platform? Are dingoe's evil when they take a child?
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| Of course not. So why would a machine, even a sentient one, be evil when it destroys? |
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Y'know... Putting extra stress on those words to perpetuate some kind of silly argument isn't gonna work.|
Originally Posted by seebs
No, because they are not moral agents -- they don't have the capacity for comprehending the choices involved.
If it were sentient, it would be evil for the same reasons any other sentient thing would be. |
I'm 100% right in my opinion of what is or isn't evil. You are also 100% right in YOUR opinion of what is or isn't evil.
Opinions are like that.
@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
[Deleted]